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Sekera was the Sabres BEST defensemen

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05-26-2012, 01:31 PM
  #101
La Cosa Nostra
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
He was top 40 in quality of competition. And among those 40, he was mid 20s in GF/GA differential.

That to me is a good barometer for top defensemen. play against the top lines and be successful at both ends.
QoC is not that IMPORTANT, just another stat that isn't an official stat and manipulated very easily. Chris Butler was 4th in QoC I guess Chris Butler is a #1 dman :

Sekera 4th in ESP for Sabres d-men only ahead of Regehr and Weber , two of the worst dmen in the league when it comes to offense. A #1 dman plays a lot of minutes in all situations not 19 minutes a game. 178th in PPG for dmen, by the way there are only 180 starting dmen in the whole NHL

Sekera wasnt drafted as a defensive dman he was drafted as an offensive dman and won the OHL dman of the year because of his offense, not his amazing defensive skills. The fact he put up 13 points getting over 1 minute of PP time is pathetic. Sekera is one of the reasons our PP blew, is by having him ruin the PP. And for the best dman on the Sabres, it's funny he was 5th for Sabres dmen in SHTOI/G, but who cares about stats that matter, let's pull up obscure sabremetric like stats to prove how great our "best" dman Sekera is.

Christian Ehrhoff was the best dman and it wasn't even close... For Christ sake Ehrhoff was the only one to come to Millers aid Twice when he got ran and dropped the mitts, I'd love to see Sekera do that, Sekera is soft and would never fight and he doesn't hit. Sekera is good playing sheltered minutes, play him 20+ minutes and see how bad he plays. Best dman , yeah right, especially if we really do have a "franchise" dman in Myers, which he hasn't been the past 2 seasons.

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05-26-2012, 01:37 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I'll tell you what he's not: a minute eating top pairing defenseman.

The best defensemen are the ones who play the most. They play the most because they are better than the guys who play less. This is common sense.


I know another way you can tell who the best defensemen are: if they are out ofthe line up the team is much worse. When Ehrhoff and Myers are out, this is a bad team. When Sekera is out, they carry on like normal. Pretty telling.

Sekera is a good mid-pair defenseman that can play against other team top players. Who's really the one with the agenda, the guy who is trying to put him on a pedastle as our best defenseman, or me for saying he's a solid mid-pair guy, nothing more or less?
based on the bolded, i take it that you thought Jaro Spacek was better then Toni Lydman?

You see, back in those days, It was Spacek-Campbell that got the most ice time, but it was Lydman-Tallinder that got the top matchups.

Which pair was the #1 top pairing?

the person ignoring all statistical facts is clearly the one with an agenda.


Last edited by Jame: 05-26-2012 at 02:15 PM.
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05-26-2012, 02:07 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
QoC is not that IMPORTANT, just another stat that isn't an official stat and manipulated very easily. Chris Butler was 4th in QoC I guess Chris Butler is a #1 dman :
im going to keep bashing this into your head until you can comprehend it.

QoC is a INDICATION of ROLE.

Chris Butler was USED as a top pairing defensemen in Calgary. He was Jaybo's partner. He was USED as a top pairing defensemen.

ALONE, QoC is NOT an indication of SUCCESS. It is ONLY an barometer for HOW a defensemen was used.

Butler was 14th in QoC (i believe you are looking at Corsi QoC which is based on shots not +/-).

QoC is meaningless outside of that, UNLESS you quantify with indications of SUCCESS within the role that QoC helps you DEFINE.

Hence, why stats like GF per 60, GA per 60, differential, Corsi, etc are used to quantify the SUCCESS of a player within that role

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Sekera 4th in ESP for Sabres d-men only ahead of Regehr and Weber , two of the worst dmen in the league when it comes to offense.

Goals for per 60 on ice
1. Ehrhoff 2.85
2. Leopold 2.62
3. Sekera 2.51
4. Myers 2.47
5. Regehr 1.50
6. Weber 1.37

You are aware that a player can be a valuable contributor to offense without getting a point right?

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A #1 dman plays a lot of minutes in all situations not 19 minutes a game. 178th in PPG for dmen, by the way there are only 180 starting dmen in the whole NHL
that clearly is YOUR definition... and im sure plenty of people agree with it. I, on the other hand, evaluate players... im not concerned with the semantical definition of "#1 defensemen".

Toni Lydman was a top pairing/shut down defensemen... he never led the team in minutes, and never scored a lot of points. He and Tallinder were the top pair/shut down pair. Campbell, on the other hand, led in minutes and scoring.

Sekera is playing the Lydman role
Ehrhoff is playing the Campbell role


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Sekera wasnt drafted as a defensive dman he was drafted as an offensive dman and won the OHL dman of the year because of his offense, not his amazing defensive skills.
um.. who gives a ****? He's 26, and just had a breakout season as a shut down defensemen.

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The fact he put up 13 points getting over 1 minute of PP time is pathetic. Sekera is one of the reasons our PP blew, is by having him ruin the PP. And for the best dman on the Sabres, it's funny he was 5th for Sabres dmen in SHTOI/G, but who cares about stats that matter, let's pull up obscure sabremetric like stats to prove how great our "best" dman Sekera is.
i realize that a few gaffes stand out... but the reality is, our PP generated MORE shot attempts, and LESS shots blocked when he was on it, than Myers or Leopold

POWER PLAY

Goals For per 60 of PP
1. Ehrhoff 7.23
2. Sekera 5.93
3. Myers 5.50
4. Leopold 4.52

Shots For per 60 of PP
1. Ehrhoff 49.0
2. Sekera 45.4
3. Leopold 44.4
4. Myers 39.4

Shots Blocked by opponent per 60 ON
1. Sekera 17.8
2. Leopold 26.0
3. Ehrhoff 26.3
4. Myers 28.9
Quote:
Christian Ehrhoff was the best dman and it wasn't even close...
no, he wasn't. im not sure if you have a learning disability... if so i apologize for being repetitive

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For Christ sake Ehrhoff was the only one to come to Millers aid Twice when he got ran and dropped the mitts, I'd love to see Sekera do that, Sekera is soft and would never fight and he doesn't hit.
i guess if you think hits matter, you should know that Sekera had more hits then Ehrhoff

Quote:
Sekera is good playing sheltered minutes, play him 20+ minutes and see how bad he plays.
Matching up against Top Lines, and getting the most defensive zone starts is NOT playing sheltered minutes

Quality of Competition
1. Regehr +0.065
2. Sekera +0.038
3. Weber +0.002
4. Ehrhoff -0.004
5. Myers -0.013
6. Leopold -0.023

Off zone start %
1. Ehrhoff
2. Leopold
3. Myers
4. Sekera
5. Weber
6. Regehr

Ehrhoff led the team in offensive zone starts and was at the bottom of the QoC... that's what playing sheltered minutes looks like...

Sometimes you need to accept when the teacher is explaining that 2+2=4, instead of throwing a temper tantrum and insisting the answer is 3

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05-26-2012, 03:08 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I'll tell you what he's not: a minute eating top pairing defenseman.

The best defensemen are the ones who play the most. They play the most because they are better than the guys who play less. This is common sense.

I know another way you can tell who the best defensemen are: if they are out ofthe line up the team is much worse. When Ehrhoff and Myers are out, this is a bad team. When Sekera is out, they carry on like normal. Pretty telling.

Sekera is a good mid-pair defenseman that can play against other team top players. Who's really the one with the agenda, the guy who is trying to put him on a pedastle as our best defenseman, or me for saying he's a solid mid-pair guy, nothing more or less?
Not necessarily. Take the example that Jame used or Ottawa 5 years ago when they went to the Cup finals. Volchenkov was on the shut down pairing with Phillips yet Redden and Meszaros would play more because they got time on the PP and PK. The difference in the playing time between Sekera and Myers/Ehrhoff/Leopold is PP time and based on the stats Sekera was actually better on the PP than both Myers and Leopold. A player's abilities aren't based on how much they play. Was he a minute-eating defenseman for us? No, he didn't have to be. He might be one, we don't know because Ruff gave the big minutes to Myers, Ehrhoff and Leopold while limiting Sekera and Regehr to matching them against the opposition's top players. He shuts down the opposition's best players. That's his role. That's what top pairing defensemen do.


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05-26-2012, 03:43 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by thefifagod View Post
Not necessarily. Take the example that Jame used or Ottawa 5 years ago when they went to the Cup finals. Volchenkov was on the shut down pairing with Phillips yet Redden and Meszaros would play more because they got time on the PP and PK. The difference in the playing time between Sekera and Myers/Ehrhoff/Leopold is PP time and based on the stats Sekera was actually better on the PP than both Myers and Leopold. A player's abilities aren't based on how much they play. Was he a minute-eating defenseman for us? No, he didn't have to be. He might be one, we don't know because Ruff gave the big minutes to Myers, Ehrhoff and Leopold while limiting Sekera and Regehr to matching them against the opposition's top players. He shuts down the opposition's best players. That's his role. That's what top pairing defensemen do.
To be fair, let us break down the ice times:

ES ice time:
Ehrhoff 18:46
Leopold 18:02
Myers 17:57
Sekera 17:06
Weber 16:44
Regehr 15:44

SH ice time:
Regehr 2:40
Leopold 2:19
Myers 2:06
Weber 1:45
Sekera 1:37
Ehrhoff 1:19

PP ice time:
Ehrhoff 2:58
Myers 2:25
Leopold 1:59
Sekera 0:51
Weber 0:04
Regehr 0:02

Shifts/game
Myers 27.6
Leopold 26.8
Sekera 25.7
Ehrhoff 25.6
Regehr 24.7
Weber 23.7

TOI/Shift
Ehrhoff 54.0
Leopold 50.0
Myers 49.0
Weber 47.0
Sekera 46.0
Regehr 45.0

Some observations:

--Regehr, who was Sekera's partner for much of the season, played the least at ES, but the most at PK. This could be in part due to the "kill penalty, then go to bench" scenario, where the immediate shifts after a kill go to someone else since he was tired. And it is not farfetched to suggest a potential ripple effect where his partner then also misses shifts, although this effect is likely minimal at best over the full season.

Ehrhoff and Leopold are minute eaters. There is value to being able to consistently play those kind of minutes.

BUT look at the number of shifts. Sekera actually played MORE shifts per game than Ehrhoff.

The shift lengths are telling. We see the guys with more PP time have longer shifts. Why? Because PP shifts tend to be longer in general--shifts played in the other zone tend to be easier minutes. Now add in the offensive zone starts, where Ehrhoff, Leopold, and Myers were again the top 3. Again, offensive shifts tend to be easier minutes, allowing one to play more per shift. THAT is where the extra ice time is coming from.

Meanwhile, Sekera is playing shorter shifts. Now this tells us two things. 1) He's not getting those easier minutes in the offensive zone, a fact supported by the defensive zone starts. And 2) He's not getting pinned in his own end as much, allowing him to get off for a change sooner. When you compare his shift time to Weber, this is also apparent--we've seen Weber gets pinned in his own end more, which is reflected in Weber's higher shift length. (This too could also contribute to Leopold's higher shift length, as he was another guy who often got pinned in his own end).

When you break down the ice time and look deeper, and then combine them with the zone start stats already presented, you get a fuller picture of WHY some players have more ice time than others.

(PS. While Sekera IMO played the best in the season, if you're looking at who to call this team's #1 D-man, wouldn't you have to go with the guy who is put out on the ice the most in shifts/game, aka Myers? Shifts IMO is a great indicator of how much you are used...and the gap between him and the others is pretty big.)

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05-26-2012, 03:56 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post

Shifts/game
Myers 27.6
Leopold 26.8
Sekera 25.7
Ehrhoff 25.6

Regehr 24.7
Weber 23.7

TOI/Shift
Ehrhoff 54.0
Leopold 50.0
Myers 49.0
Weber 47.0
Sekera 46.0
Regehr 45.0

Some observations:

--Regehr, who was Sekera's partner for much of the season, played the least at ES, but the most at PK. This could be in part due to the "kill penalty, then go to bench" scenario, where the immediate shifts after a kill go to someone else since he was tired. And it is not farfetched to suggest a potential ripple effect where his partner then also misses shifts, although this effect is likely minimal at best over the full season.

Ehrhoff and Leopold are minute eaters. There is value to being able to consistently play those kind of minutes.

BUT look at the number of shifts. Sekera actually played MORE shifts per game than Ehrhoff.


The shift lengths are telling. We see the guys with more PP time have longer shifts. Why? Because PP shifts tend to be longer in general--shifts played in the other zone tend to be easier minutes. Now add in the offensive zone starts, where Ehrhoff, Leopold, and Myers were again the top 3. Again, offensive shifts tend to be easier minutes, allowing one to play more per shift. THAT is where the extra ice time is coming from.

Meanwhile, Sekera is playing shorter shifts. Now this tells us two things. 1) He's not getting those easier minutes in the offensive zone, a fact supported by the defensive zone starts. And 2) He's not getting pinned in his own end as much, allowing him to get off for a change sooner. When you compare his shift time to Weber, this is also apparent--we've seen Weber gets pinned in his own end more, which is reflected in Weber's higher shift length. (This too could also contribute to Leopold's higher shift length, as he was another guy who often got pinned in his own end).

When you break down the ice time and look deeper, and then combine them with the zone start stats already presented, you get a fuller picture of WHY some players have more ice time than others.
dammit LDS... i just spent 10 minutes putting all the same stats/arguments together!

well done


the point about shift time regarding Sekera and defensive zone starts is a perfect combination of stats that show how big his role was and how successful he was at it.

Quote:
(PS. While Sekera IMO played the best in the season, if you're looking at who to call this team's #1 D-man, wouldn't you have to go with the guy who is put out on the ice the most in shifts/game, aka Myers? Shifts IMO is a great indicator of how much you are used...and the gap between him and the others is pretty big.)
i think that it would be a mistake to judge the Sabres that way. This is how Lindy Ruff plays the game.

What do you want to call the #1 or top pair? the guys who do the heavy lifting defensively, or the guys who get the offensive role?

Do you think Spacek-Campbell were the #1 pair, or Lydman-Tallinder?

This is not new... this is how Lindy ruff does things, it doesn't mesh with the generic top minute defensemen=#1 defensemen... it never has

Myers was 5th in QoC, he was sheltered from the top competition on purpose, can you really call a guy that is protected like that, your #1 defensemen?

Myers was used as a 1st pair defender in his first 2 seasons, this year, he was protected/sheltered from that responsibility.

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05-26-2012, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
dammit LDS... i just spent 10 minutes putting all the same stats/arguments together!

well done


the point about shift time regarding Sekera and defensive zone starts is a perfect combination of stats that show how big his role was and how successful he was at it.



i think that it would be a mistake to judge the Sabres that way. This is how Lindy Ruff plays the game.

What do you want to call the #1 or top pair? the guys who do the heavy lifting defensively, or the guys who get the offensive role?

Do you think Spacek-Campbell were the #1 pair, or Lydman-Tallinder?

This is not new... this is how Lindy ruff does things, it doesn't mesh with the generic top minute defensemen=#1 defensemen... it never has

Myers was 5th in QoC, he was sheltered from the top competition on purpose, can you really call a guy that is protected like that, your #1 defensemen?

Myers was used as a 1st pair defender in his first 2 seasons, this year, he was protected/sheltered from that responsibility.
I think it's going to be hard to ever argue conclusively who was or wasn't the #1 D-man the past season simply based on the division of roles and ice-time...but if you are going to use an ice-time based argument for it, then Myers should be the guy based on the shift count IMO. If the argument is you put your best defender out the most...well Myers was put out the most. Simply pointing out that Myers should be considered ahead of Ehrhoff for the "#1 D-man" role.

To me, and this isn't a perfect comparison because of stylistic differences, but it's the best one I got, is to look at the Penguins cup winning defense. Sekera plays more of the Rob Scuderi role, Ehrhoff more of the Gonchar role. Gonchar might have gotten the stats, the glory, etc...but without Scuderi, he doesn't get the Cup.

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05-26-2012, 04:20 PM
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Maybe it's not Myers that is being sheltered, it's Ruff wanting him to play with his most productive forwards, thus getting matched up against other teams checking lines and Sekera-esque shut down pairings. When you are a team that struggles to score, you are going to want your top defensemen playing with your best forwards more than normal. I'm willing to bet that Sekera was on the ice an awful lot with the Gaustad-Kaleta-Gerbe/similar role line, while Myers and Ehrhoff were probably playing a lot with Roy, Vanek, Pominville. Based on his PK time, it pretty obvious they were not intentionally sheltering Myers.

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05-26-2012, 04:23 PM
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Maybe it's not Myers that is being sheltered, it's Ruff wanting him to play with his most productive forwards, thus getting matched up against other teams checking lines and Sekera-esque shut down pairings. When you are a team that struggles to score, you are going to want your top defensemen playing with your best forwards more than normal. I'm willing to bet that Sekera was on the ice an awful lot with the Gaustad-Kaleta-Gerbe/similar role line, while Myers and Ehrhoff were probably playing a lot with Roy, Vanek, Pominville. Based on his PK time, it pretty obvious they were not intentionally sheltering Myers.
This could very well be the case. I know there are some sites (specifically for fantasy purposes) that keep track of most common teammates, unfortunately I don't know which ones, so if someone knows one and can post the stats (and a link for my own indulgence) it could definitely add some more information to this topic.

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05-26-2012, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Maybe it's not Myers that is being sheltered, it's Ruff wanting him to play with his most productive forwards, thus getting matched up against other teams checking lines and Sekera-esque shut down pairings. When you are a team that struggles to score, you are going to want your top defensemen playing with your best forwards more than normal. I'm willing to bet that Sekera was on the ice an awful lot with the Gaustad-Kaleta-Gerbe/similar role line, while Myers and Ehrhoff were probably playing a lot with Roy, Vanek, Pominville. Based on his PK time, it pretty obvious they were not intentionally sheltering Myers
Nobody is talking about sheltering Myers on the PK, we're talking about even strength. He's obviously good enough to be on the PK and will automatically be against good forwards on the PK. Also, Myers' quality of teammate was lower than everyone but Sekera and Leopold so he wasn't with the most productive forwards all that often outside of the PP.

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05-26-2012, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
This could very well be the case. I know there are some sites (specifically for fantasy purposes) that keep track of most common teammates, unfortunately I don't know which ones, so if someone knows one and can post the stats (and a link for my own indulgence) it could definitely add some more information to this topic.
Yes this would definitely help and I would appreciate it as well. I was going to suggest leftwinglock.com but it apparently only does full units for PK and PP and for even strength it does offensive lines and defensive pairs. Damn it.

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05-26-2012, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
I think it's going to be hard to ever argue conclusively who was or wasn't the #1 D-man the past season simply based on the division of roles and ice-time...but if you are going to use an ice-time based argument for it, then Myers should be the guy based on the shift count IMO. If the argument is you put your best defender out the most...well Myers was put out the most. Simply pointing out that Myers should be considered ahead of Ehrhoff for the "#1 D-man" role.
it's hard to argue #1 defensemen without a definition of #1 defensemen.

I dont for a second believe that Myers was the "#1 defensemen" because he had 2 more shifts per game then Sekera, while Sekera had top competition and top defensive zone starts on his resume.

they are called DEFENSEmen for a reason

Quote:
To me, and this isn't a perfect comparison because of stylistic differences, but it's the best one I got, is to look at the Penguins cup winning defense. Sekera plays more of the Rob Scuderi role, Ehrhoff more of the Gonchar role. Gonchar might have gotten the stats, the glory, etc...but without Scuderi, he doesn't get the Cup.
I made the same comparison a few weeks ago (sekera to scuderi). I think Sekera is better today, then Scuderi was with the Pens

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05-26-2012, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Maybe it's not Myers that is being sheltered, it's Ruff wanting him to play with his most productive forwards, thus getting matched up against other teams checking lines and Sekera-esque shut down pairings. When you are a team that struggles to score, you are going to want your top defensemen playing with your best forwards more than normal. I'm willing to bet that Sekera was on the ice an awful lot with the Gaustad-Kaleta-Gerbe/similar role line, while Myers and Ehrhoff were probably playing a lot with Roy, Vanek, Pominville. Based on his PK time, it pretty obvious they were not intentionally sheltering Myers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
This could very well be the case. I know there are some sites (specifically for fantasy purposes) that keep track of most common teammates, unfortunately I don't know which ones, so if someone knows one and can post the stats (and a link for my own indulgence) it could definitely add some more information to this topic.
Myers most common d partner was Leopold
Myers most common forward linemates:
Pommer, Leino, Stafford, Roy, Vanek,
Sekera's most common d partner was Regehr
Roy, Pommer, Leino, Stafford, Vanek

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05-26-2012, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
To me, and this isn't a perfect comparison because of stylistic differences, but it's the best one I got, is to look at the Penguins cup winning defense. Sekera plays more of the Rob Scuderi role, Ehrhoff more of the Gonchar role. Gonchar might have gotten the stats, the glory, etc...but without Scuderi, he doesn't get the Cup.
I made the same comparison in the Summer Moves thread. Myers/Ehrhoff are Gonchar/Letang, Regehr-Sekera are the Gill-Scuderi pairing. We just need an Orpik for Myers rather than a Leopold, IMO...

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05-26-2012, 08:48 PM
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I am looking forward to Sekera on defense this year. With a Ehrhoff/Sultzer pairing a likely given and Myers and Regehr in the top 6, I am happy with this defense. McNabb will likely make the top 6 making Leopold or Weber expendable. This team now needs scoring.

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05-26-2012, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Myers most common d partner was Leopold
Myers most common forward linemates:
Pommer, Leino, Stafford, Roy, Vanek,
Sekera's most common d partner was Regehr
Roy, Pommer, Leino, Stafford, Vanek
You are so oblivious to your own argument you proved yourself wrong.

Top defenceman plays with top forwards PERIOD.


Last edited by heartsabres*: 05-26-2012 at 09:22 PM.
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05-26-2012, 09:19 PM
  #117
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you win games by scoring goals.

JAME you are starting an NHL team. Pick only one as your captain, leader and number one defenceman.
1 Sekera
2. Ehrhoff
3. Myers
Waiting

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05-26-2012, 09:24 PM
  #118
heartsabres*
 
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I am too tired to explain to Jame that the best defencemen in the NHL are also offensively gifted outside of Rod Langway and Sekera is no Langway. Can someone make a list?

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Old
05-27-2012, 12:05 AM
  #119
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
You are so oblivious to your own argument you proved yourself wrong.

Top defenceman plays with top forwards PERIOD.
uh... Sekera played with the same forwards as Ehrhoff...

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
you win games by scoring goals.

JAME you are starting an NHL team. Pick only one as your captain, leader and number one defenceman.
1 Sekera
2. Ehrhoff
3. Myers
Waiting
correction : You win games by scoring more goals then the other team. Sekera's GF/GA differential was better then Ehrhoff's. And while Myers was the best, he just didn't do it under the more difficult circumstances. Myers did it with the pampered minutes.

not sure what "captain" has to do with this debate (its not really a debate, it's me presenting the facts, and you looking rather silly to everyone)

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
I am too tired to explain to Jame that the best defencemen in the NHL are also offensively gifted outside of Rod Langway and Sekera is no Langway. Can someone make a list?
you just looked at a list of Norris trophy winners didn't you if you are old enough to have watched Langway play... i'd be shocked (i never saw him play). if you are that old, and still have these amateur opinions about hockey... well... sorry there is no hope for you.

Chris Phillips, Anton Volchenkov, Tim Gleason, Braydon Coburn, Robyn Regehr, Vlasic, Lydman... i guess these guys aren't very good with their lack of offense...

Sekera scored 29 pts last year ... putting him in the same scoring range as McDonaugh and Girardi this year (i bet you aren't even aware how good those 2 are)

you might be surprised....
Sekera PTs per 60 ES = 0.64
Among other defensemen who see top QOC...that .60 is Better than/or close to:
Phaneuf : .72
Gorges : .63
Girardi : .54
Boychuk : .67
Suter : .74
Jaybo : .60
Gleason : .63
Michalek : .62
Lydman : .63

Ask Vancouver if Ehrhoff was their #1 defensemen last year. He led them in pts (50+), he got the most minutes, the most shifts... he would meet all your criteria for a #1 defensemen.... meanwhile, all intelligent hockey fans know that Hamhuis-Bieksa was their #1... not Ehrhoff or Edler.

Hamhuis-Bieksa is the top pair, Edler-Ehrhoff was the "offensive" 2nd pair.

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Old
05-27-2012, 12:07 AM
  #120
McTankel
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Originally Posted by Ron C. View Post
I am looking forward to Sekera on defense this year. With a Ehrhoff/Sultzer pairing a likely given and Myers and Regehr in the top 6, I am happy with this defense. McNabb will likely make the top 6 making Leopold or Weber expendable. This team now needs scoring.
I agree. I am looking forward to

1st D pairing of

Myers/Sekera

2nd pairing of

Ehrhoff/Sulzer

3rd pairing of

Leopold/Regyer

7th/8th

McNabb/Weber/Brennan (Hopefully one gets traded with our picks for a number one center or number one center prospect)

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Old
05-27-2012, 12:09 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
I agree. I am looking forward to

1st D pairing of

Myers/Sekera

2nd pairing of

Ehrhoff/Sulzer

3rd pairing of

Leopold/Regyer

7th/8th

McNabb/Weber/Brennan (Hopefully one gets traded with our picks for a number one center or number one center prospect)
Those pairing are contender worthy, we just need to sort are forwards out

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Old
05-27-2012, 12:47 AM
  #122
ZZamboni
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Face it Jame, some shut off the brain and ....





It just makes for an influx of pity

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Old
05-27-2012, 12:55 AM
  #123
McTank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
uh... Sekera played with the same forwards as Ehrhoff...



correction : You win games by scoring more goals then the other team. Sekera's GF/GA differential was better then Ehrhoff's. And while Myers was the best, he just didn't do it under the more difficult circumstances. Myers did it with the pampered minutes.

not sure what "captain" has to do with this debate (its not really a debate, it's me presenting the facts, and you looking rather silly to everyone)



you just looked at a list of Norris trophy winners didn't you if you are old enough to have watched Langway play... i'd be shocked (i never saw him play). if you are that old, and still have these amateur opinions about hockey... well... sorry there is no hope for you.

Chris Phillips, Anton Volchenkov, Tim Gleason, Braydon Coburn, Robyn Regehr, Vlasic, Lydman... i guess these guys aren't very good with their lack of offense...

Sekera scored 29 pts last year ... putting him in the same scoring range as McDonaugh and Girardi this year (i bet you aren't even aware how good those 2 are)

you might be surprised....
Sekera PTs per 60 ES = 0.64
Among other defensemen who see top QOC...that .60 is Better than/or close to:
Phaneuf : .72
Gorges : .63
Girardi : .54
Boychuk : .67
Suter : .74
Jaybo : .60
Gleason : .63
Michalek : .62
Lydman : .63

Ask Vancouver if Ehrhoff was their #1 defensemen last year. He led them in pts (50+), he got the most minutes, the most shifts... he would meet all your criteria for a #1 defensemen.... meanwhile, all intelligent hockey fans know that Hamhuis-Bieksa was their #1... not Ehrhoff or Edler.

Hamhuis-Bieksa is the top pair, Edler-Ehrhoff was the "offensive" 2nd pair.
He's just at the awkward stage when you realize you've lost an argument but don't want to admit it after all the arguing you've done

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Old
05-27-2012, 01:08 AM
  #124
jamers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
you win games by scoring goals.

JAME you are starting an NHL team. Pick only one as your captain, leader and number one defenceman.
1 Sekera
2. Ehrhoff
3. Myers
Waiting
This is just a silly derailment. C'mon man. What does captaincy (and leadership) have to do with any of this?

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Old
05-27-2012, 02:15 AM
  #125
Husko
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Just out of curiosity, who got the bulk of the tough matchups back in the late 90s, Zhitnik, or Warner/Mckee?

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