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So my rec league team "cheated" according to the other team.

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Old
05-26-2012, 11:42 PM
  #1
DeflatedFootball7
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So my rec league team "cheated" according to the other team.

We were in the championship game against a team we have not beaten all year. We played them earlier in the day, and lost 8-4, with a severely shortened bench. Thinking we were going to be in the Bronze game, we called upon a few spares to fill holes on the roster. Thing is, these three, Josh, James, and Brent, are Junior A level players. By technicality on stats, we made it to the gold medal game against the aforementioned team. At this point not only were the three spares on the bench for us, we also had an almost full roster, missing only two regulars. When we were losing 3-2, these three went to work. James had a hat trick, Josh had an assist on each goal, and Brent...Well he didn't do much actually.

Point is, we were accused of "cheating" by the other team, due to the high skill level of the three, in addition to getting our captain back etc.

In a situation like this, do you consider it cheating? We thought we would have a shortened bench, and the three all had some connection to the team, through family, friends etc. Thoughts?

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05-26-2012, 11:55 PM
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Danglous
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Sounds like you brought in a bunch of ringers. I think they have the right to be angry.

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05-27-2012, 12:01 AM
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goalie29
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I'm going to guess we were in the same rink today.....

So Black beat Red in the final? Awesome! ( I was the Green goalie - small world, eh? )

Red complained about a lot of things, so I wouldn't be surprised if they went nuts about you guys bringing in some back up. White team also had a player we know didn't play until today with them, but we figured it must be okay with the league so it was no skin off our noses.

It was a 10 game Parks and Rec spring league - not exactly a run for the Cup. Some people took it way too seriously.

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05-27-2012, 12:03 AM
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Wilch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
We were in the championship game against a team we have not beaten all year. We played them earlier in the day, and lost 8-4, with a severely shortened bench. Thinking we were going to be in the Bronze game, we called upon a few spares to fill holes on the roster. Thing is, these three, Josh, James, and Brent, are Junior A level players. By technicality on stats, we made it to the gold medal game against the aforementioned team. At this point not only were the three spares on the bench for us, we also had an almost full roster, missing only two regulars. When we were losing 3-2, these three went to work. James had a hat trick, Josh had an assist on each goal, and Brent...Well he didn't do much actually.

Point is, we were accused of "cheating" by the other team, due to the high skill level of the three, in addition to getting our captain back etc.

In a situation like this, do you consider it cheating? We thought we would have a shortened bench, and the three all had some connection to the team, through family, friends etc. Thoughts?
These kinds of stuff happen all the time.

Our team was a top seed and lost in the playoffs to the worst team because they brought up 3-4 players who should be playing at least 5-6 tiers higher to play for them.

If you play in a cheap, unorganized league, it's the price you have to pay. Usually in better leagues (more expensive ones), rules against ringers are more strictly enforced.

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05-27-2012, 12:21 AM
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DeflatedFootball7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goalie29 View Post
I'm going to guess we were in the same rink today.....

So Black beat Red in the final? Awesome! ( I was the Green goalie - small world, eh? )

Red complained about a lot of things, so I wouldn't be surprised if they went nuts about you guys bringing in some back up. White team also had a player we know didn't play until today with them, but we figured it must be okay with the league so it was no skin off our noses.

It was a 10 game Parks and Rec spring league - not exactly a run for the Cup. Some people took it way too seriously.
True true. Some people were treating it like the pros. Small world indeed.

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05-27-2012, 03:34 AM
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nullterm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilch View Post
These kinds of stuff happen all the time.

Our team was a top seed and lost in the playoffs to the worst team because they brought up 3-4 players who should be playing at least 5-6 tiers higher to play for them.

If you play in a cheap, unorganized league, it's the price you have to pay. Usually in better leagues (more expensive ones), rules against ringers are more strictly enforced.
So you've played ICE604 then. hahaha

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05-27-2012, 07:21 AM
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If there's no rule against it, then they can't really say it's cheating...however they have a right to be angry.

In the leagues I play in, you have to ask for the approval of the other team before you can get subs. They can be nice about it and let you have one or let you pay the price for having your team flake out on you. We've been burned so many times that we almost never let subs on a team anymore.

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05-27-2012, 07:47 AM
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Frankie Spankie
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Originally Posted by Dikkens View Post
Sounds like you brought in a bunch of ringers. I think they have the right to be angry.
This -- Both leagues I play in allow subs to come in during the regular season but they're not allowed in the playoffs period. You'll skate with 3 people if your team doesn't show up, you're not getting any subs (unless you probably forfeit the game).

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05-27-2012, 08:21 AM
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Yep, depends what the rules say. It may not be scrupulous, but that doesn't mean it's against the rules. That's your problem to deal with if you praise a tainted win; anyone can bring in more highly-skilled players for an easy win. That's no fun.

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05-27-2012, 09:08 AM
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So you've played ICE604 then. hahaha
Don't know whether to laugh or cry, but yes.

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05-27-2012, 09:10 AM
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Canadian91
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I was on the other side of this last summer in a summer tournament..

We had beat a team 3-2 in round robin play, and then they came back with a ringer when we played them in the final. They won 5-2 (2 empty netters), with the new guy getting all 5 goals.

I personally don't like it.. the team you enter a league/tourney with should be the team that you stick with all year unless a player is injured at the start of things.

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05-27-2012, 11:17 AM
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I personally don't like it.. the team you enter a league/tourney with should be the team that you stick with all year unless a player is injured at the start of things.
I agree with that. When I was playing little league baseball way back in the day, you had to take a full team picture before the playoffs (and if somebody was absent that day, they had to get an individual shot) and submit it to the league. If you weren't in that picture, you can't play in the playoffs. A league could also instate a certain minimum number of regular season games that a player had to play in to be eligible in the playoffs. That worked when I did intramural ultimate frisbee in college. Regardless of how it is enforced, anti-ringer measures ought to be strict.

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05-27-2012, 12:02 PM
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Were they on the roster all season and legal for that division? If so, no foul. If not, then I don't understand how they would be allowed to play that late in the season. Our league closes rosters about 1/3rd of the way into the season and limits the levels the star players can play.

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05-27-2012, 12:06 PM
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Depends how competetive the league is, I guess. If players of that calibre frequent the league, I don't see an issue. If it's mostly a bunch of newbies/career beer leaguers all of a sudden being forced to go up against guys with Junior/Pro experience, I'd understand people being choked about it.

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05-27-2012, 12:26 PM
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Axman
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In our league, subs usually have to be approved and we're not allowed to have subs at all in the playoffs.

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05-27-2012, 12:53 PM
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The subs were approved by the league manager before the game. Green also had extra players in the Bronze game.

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05-27-2012, 01:09 PM
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Even if the league approves it, it may still be unfair.

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05-27-2012, 01:12 PM
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Jacob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
We were in the championship game against a team we have not beaten all year. We played them earlier in the day, and lost 8-4, with a severely shortened bench. Thinking we were going to be in the Bronze game, we called upon a few spares to fill holes on the roster. Thing is, these three, Josh, James, and Brent, are Junior A level players. By technicality on stats, we made it to the gold medal game against the aforementioned team. At this point not only were the three spares on the bench for us, we also had an almost full roster, missing only two regulars. When we were losing 3-2, these three went to work. James had a hat trick, Josh had an assist on each goal, and Brent...Well he didn't do much actually.

Point is, we were accused of "cheating" by the other team, due to the high skill level of the three, in addition to getting our captain back etc.

In a situation like this, do you consider it cheating? We thought we would have a shortened bench, and the three all had some connection to the team, through family, friends etc. Thoughts?
Bringing in ringers to win? Yeah, that's cheating.

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05-27-2012, 01:51 PM
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The leagues I've played in have all had a minimum games played rule to be eligible to play in playoffs, so ringers had a tough time finding a way in. Bringing in 3 guys way above your caliber to play a gold medal game? Yeah, that's not cool. The league approved it though? Still not cool and now the other team has 2 different people to be upset with.

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05-27-2012, 01:54 PM
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Sounds like you brought in a bunch of ringers. I think they have the right to be angry.
What he said...

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05-27-2012, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Depends how competetive the league is, I guess. If players of that calibre frequent the league, I don't see an issue. If it's mostly a bunch of newbies/career beer leaguers all of a sudden being forced to go up against guys with Junior/Pro experience, I'd understand people being choked about it.
+1

I agree, it's not really cheating if there's other players with high skill level routinely playing. There's some rec leagues with a ton of talent, there's one near me with a bunch of Jr. A college, and ex AHL and even some ex NHL guys in it. Even if it's a top level men's league (A) they'll almost always be some ex jr and college players, ex minor pro players, or guys that could have played at those levels if they wanted to. On the other hand, if this is a D, C, or even B level league (some ex low jrs, ex good high school players) it might be close to cheating (although not technically if it's not in the rulebook).

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05-27-2012, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sbkbghockey View Post
+1

I agree, it's not really cheating if there's other players with high skill level routinely playing. There's some rec leagues with a ton of talent, there's one near me with a bunch of Jr. A college, and ex AHL and even some ex NHL guys in it. Even if it's a top level men's league (A) they'll almost always be some ex jr and college players, ex minor pro players, or guys that could have played at those levels if they wanted to. On the other hand, if this is a D, C, or even B level league (some ex low jrs, ex good high school players) it might be close to cheating (although not technically if it's not in the rulebook).
If the team was down a goal and then the three ringers suddenly produced a hat-trick and they won because of it, I think it's pretty clear that they more-or-less changed the outcome of the game, and so I'd say that it's not really the best situation. Can't say I've ever heard of a league that doesn't have rules about this stuff.

I'd liken it to when a team's goalie is late coming out, and the ref makes them start the game with 6 skaters, knowing that the goalie will be there within a couple minutes. There's obviously no rule against going all out to score 10 goals before the keeper gets on the ice, but come on...

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05-27-2012, 03:08 PM
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Ringer, Ringer, Tainted Winner

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05-27-2012, 03:29 PM
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Yeah, that isn't cool at all. You guys won but it really cheapens the victory considering that you had 3 ringers come in to win it for you. It take it that these 3 guys don't normally play for your team. It's less like a victory for your team and more like a loss for the other team.

Sounds like you guys would have lost if you didn't bring in the ringers. I wouldn't be proud of that.

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05-27-2012, 03:31 PM
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Did they play at all during the regular season?

There's always going to be a team that brings in ringers for playoffs especially in a rec league.

I'll admit there's been a few times whenever I've been short guys come playoffs I'll pick up a few skaters but I'll make sure their not guys that are going to dominate a game and run the risk of having the other team p!ss and moan about it, usually it's a guy or two that I've used during the regular season for a few games.

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