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05-18-2012, 04:26 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Buffaloed View Post
If it's like the previous amnesty it won't be available in another year. It was use it before the start of the season or lose it.
If that's the case, then they should probably use it rather than risk another five years and $22.5 million of 25-point production.

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05-18-2012, 05:04 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Sabres57 View Post
If that's the case, then they should probably use it rather than risk another five years and $22.5 million of 25-point production.
Agreed. People can stop dreaming about a Parise/Suter while Leino is on the team. We will have no cap room. It'd be nice to clear 7.5 in cap hit by dumping Leino and Leopold, two average/below average players.... We got plenty of d-men to replace Leopold and Leino did absolutely nothing last season.

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05-18-2012, 09:10 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddiBisco
Agreed. People can stop dreaming about a Parise/Suter while Leino is on the team. We will have no cap room. It'd be nice to clear 7.5 in cap hit by dumping Leino and Leopold, two average/below average players.... We got plenty of d-men to replace Leopold and Leino did absolutely nothing last season.
Oh, so that's the way it works.

BUF puts Leino on amnesty and moves Leopold (a guy whom Ruff used in all situations and with all partners at the end of last season) for just a pick, since there can't be any salary coming back, and then voila`, Parise signs with BUF within 24 hours.

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05-18-2012, 09:13 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
Oh, so that's the way it works.

BUF puts Leino on amnesty and moves Leopold (a guy whom Ruff used in all situations and with all partners at the end of last season) for just a pick, since there can't be any salary coming back, and then voila`, Parise signs with BUF within 24 hours.
Well technically we can be a percentage over the cap until the season starts...

Sign his ass first.

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05-18-2012, 10:21 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
Oh, so that's the way it works.

BUF puts Leino on amnesty and moves Leopold (a guy whom Ruff used in all situations and with all partners at the end of last season) for just a pick, since there can't be any salary coming back, and then voila`, Parise signs with BUF within 24 hours.
Leopold is mediocre, so a bad head coach used a bad player in all situations on a non playoff team? That settles it, Leopold is untouchable

I want Mcnabb up here in the top 6, please tell me why we need Leopold if our top 6 includes

Myers ("franchise" dman making 5.5 mil a year)
Ehrhoff ( 10 year contract)
Regehr ( Mentor to Myers)
Sekera ( So called best defenseman on the team )
Mcnabb ( deserves to be in the top 6 )
Sulzer/Weber/Brennan ( will fight for #6 & 7 )

Leopold is redundant. We have enough soft smooth skating "offensive" dmen in Ehrhoff, Sekera and to a lesser extent Myers. Leopold is not needed, he can be moved for cap room.I'd take a 2nd for him in a heartbeat.... Theres a reason Leopold has been traded several times.

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05-18-2012, 11:04 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
I think people are giving up on Leino too early.

Is he overpaid? Certainly (although the market was higher last offseason than we would have liked).

Is he a bad player? No.

Yes he is not living up to expectations, but he could very well be a 40-50 point player next season, which is pretty much what is expect of him.

Plus there's a thread about the Sabres being a place UFAs will want to go to. I guarantee signing someone to a 6 year deal then buying them out after 1 will not help.
Why not he gets his money and he doesnt have to live in buffalo

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05-19-2012, 07:41 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Are you alright with several holdouts each September then?
Holdouts aren't that big a deal in the NFL now with the salary cap. Many teams can easily site their cap limits or general financial constraints and tell a player, "no, sorry" with a clear conscience. Same applies to the NHL, if not more so. There is still less of a prima donna mentality in the NHL also, so I tend to think holdouts would be at a minimum. Even with a few per summer/fall, I'd gladly take that over players like uh, well the list is too long...that sign big and put their feet up for the next 4-5 years. NHL owners want it changed, and I think they must be willing to put up with them too.

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05-19-2012, 08:05 AM
  #33
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The "Leino Loophole"

Am I doing it right?

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05-19-2012, 08:18 AM
  #34
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When the Sabres were a "small market" team, I hated the big market clubs being able to just wipe away the bad decisions that they made.

I won't change my tune now that Pegula owns the Sabres.

Guaranteed contracts won't, and shouldn't, go anywhere.

Teams need to be smarter to get ahead. And that's the way it should be.

I hope it goes the other way and they get rid of the "bury a bad contract in the minors loophole" and make all one way deals count against the NHL salary cap.

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Old
05-26-2012, 03:19 PM
  #35
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Ville Leino can be very good. Now the question is, does he have enough oomph to do it. I went to a few sabres games when I lived in NJ/Nyc area. Now living 10 minutes east of Buffalo I suppose would help. Wasn't Leino out with a teaar or break for like 40 games...?

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05-26-2012, 03:49 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatCrazyRangerFan View Post
Ville Leino can be very good. Now the question is, does he have enough oomph to do it. I went to a few sabres games when I lived in NJ/Nyc area. Now living 10 minutes east of Buffalo I suppose would help. Wasn't Leino out with a teaar or break for like 40 games...?
Um ... He played 71 games for the Sabres.

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Old
05-26-2012, 03:57 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatCrazyRangerFan View Post
Ville Leino can be very good. Now the question is, does he have enough oomph to do it. I went to a few sabres games when I lived in NJ/Nyc area. Now living 10 minutes east of Buffalo I suppose would help. Wasn't Leino out with a teaar or break for like 40 games...?
He was out, only about ten games though, and he was heating up before the injury and than wasnt the same when he came back


Last edited by TheyAreGoodScaryGood: 05-26-2012 at 04:14 PM.
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Old
05-26-2012, 04:03 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
He was out, only about ten games though, and he was heating up before the injury and than wast the sane when e came back
Oh. IMHO I wouldnt say that's all she wrote about Ville. Maybe the injuries psyched him out when he came back...give him a few games in preseason and october. He just needs to stay healthy

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05-26-2012, 04:03 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
He was out, only about ten games though, and he was heating up before the injury and than wast the sane when e came back
I am not one for correcting peoples grammar but...

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05-26-2012, 04:15 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by ThatCrazyRangerFan View Post
Oh. IMHO I wouldnt say that's all she wrote about Ville. Maybe the injuries psyched him out when he came back...give him a few games in preseason and october. He just needs to stay healthy
Ya he was starting to look good again near the end of the season

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05-26-2012, 10:34 PM
  #41
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I'm with Jim Bob.

Owners shouldn't be allowed to create a bad contract situation for themselves, then create loophole after loophole to fix their own mistakes.

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05-26-2012, 11:11 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Ya he was starting to look good again near the end of the season
He's a good threat... Ennis got going really well when he came back as well

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05-26-2012, 11:33 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by ThatCrazyRangerFan View Post
He's a good threat... Ennis got going really well when he came back as well
I think most fans want him on the team... Just not at a 4.5 mil cap hit for the next five years

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05-26-2012, 11:57 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
I think most fans want him on the team... Just not at a 4.5 mil cap hit for the next five years
Although disappointing, judging 1/6th of his contract time in Buffalo and have an obtuse opinion like Leino is absolutely positively without question or doubt "a bust" or "a failure" is rather myopic.

I can totally understand if those opinions were around after 1/2 of his contract has been played and he's just as unproductive as this past season.

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05-27-2012, 04:06 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Although disappointing, judging 1/6th of his contract time in Buffalo and have an obtuse opinion like Leino is absolutely positively without question or doubt "a bust" or "a failure" is rather myopic.

I can totally understand if those opinions were around after 1/2 of his contract has been played and he's just as unproductive as this past season.
Well ZZamboni this would be true if he had scored in his previous years but he only had one good year and then people are worried he is back to the 30 point level. It would be hard to justify even a steady 50 point player getting 4.5 million for 6 years.

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05-27-2012, 07:19 AM
  #46
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Leino makes the most sense due to his lack of prouctivity. But, I still think he rebounds in year two. He wasn't amazing in the last 3rd of the season but he started to show major improvement and comfortability in the system.

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05-27-2012, 09:00 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
I'm with Jim Bob.

Owners shouldn't be allowed to create a bad contract situation for themselves, then create loophole after loophole to fix their own mistakes.
The big market teams will never allow that option to be taken away.

Btw you guys do realize if that option is taken away we wouldn't have been able to get Regehr. Or if we did, Kotalik would have had to be on the roster this past season. We would have had Morrison on he roster as well.

I've personally never felt that loophole was a big deal. Since the players in question are no longer on that team and are essentially dead to that team.

If anyone should want that loophole altered in some way it should be the players. Any player buried in the minors is essentially dead to the NHL until his contract expires. Since no team wants them claimed on recall waivers with them on the hook for half the cap hit.


Last edited by joshjull: 05-27-2012 at 09:09 AM.
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Old
05-27-2012, 09:14 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Well ZZamboni this would be true if he had scored in his previous years but he only had one good year and then people are worried he is back to the 30 point level. It would be hard to justify even a steady 50 point player getting 4.5 million for 6 years.
Players with 49-51 points regular season/cap hit

2011-2012
Briere *6.5mil.
Voracek *1.2mil.
Lacavialier 7.7mil.
Kesler 5mil.
Simmonds 1.7mil.
Stafford *4mil.
Doan *4.5mil.
J. Staal *4mil.
Hudler *2.8mil.
Ladd *4.4mil.
Henrique *875,000
Stepan *875,000
Grabovski *5.5mil.
Fisher *4.2mil.

2010-2011
Ennis *875,000
Weiss *3.1mil.
Hartnall *4.2mil.
Erat *4.5mil.
Samuelsson *2.5mil.
McDonald *4.7mil.
Kostitsyn *2.5mil.
Bourque 3.3mil.
Purcell *2.3mil.
Steen *3.3mil.

2009-2010
Kovalev *5mil.
Erat *4.5mil.
J. Staal *4mil.
Jokinen *3mil.
Vorecek *1.2mil.
Ponikarovsky *3.2mil.
Cammaleri *6mil.
Sullivan *3.7mil.
Frolov *3mil.
Fleischmann *4.5mil.
Hossa *5.2mil.
Pavelski *4mil.
Hornqvist *3mil.


How many of these players are a "steal"? How many are "overpaid"? IF Leino produces around the 45-55 pt. totals, his 4.5mil. cap hit is not much different than a handful of others making close to his salary for his (assumed) production, especially in years 3, 4, 5, and 6 of his contract. This past season, yes, he had a bad season. Therefore his cap hit was a hard pill to swallow.

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05-27-2012, 11:12 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Are you alright with several holdouts each September then?
How so?

The NFL has had non-guarenteed contracts for well over a decade, and you can count the number of holdouts on two hands each off-season. The majority of the hold-outs are tagged players, but the rest are players often on their rookie contracts which they've outplayed.

The NHL avoids this to a degree, because of longer RFA terms. Tyler Ennis was a 2008 draftee, making him a UFA under NFL rules. Because of the different systems, Ennis is an RFA, and different rules apply.

Most of the NFL "hold-outs" are due to the team tagging the player. Without the tags, you'd see big-stars moving at a similar rate to other sports.

So, you'd be down to RFA's trying to hold out for more money, like Ennis, with the team holding most of the cards, to including trading the player. Players on ELC's that holdout aren't getting that much comparatively anyway. It'd be similar to an NFL 2-3 round draftee holding out while still on his initial contract. They're not making that much, and holding out is silly for them financially. DeSean Jackson tried it, until his paychecks stopped coming. Then he reported, and didn't miss much.

I'm not dialed in on NHL rules like I am with the NFL, so clue me in if I'm missing something.

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05-27-2012, 11:47 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Players with 49-51 points regular season/cap hit

2011-2012
Briere *6.5mil.
Voracek *1.2mil.
Lacavialier 7.7mil.
Kesler 5mil.
Simmonds 1.7mil.
Stafford *4mil.
Doan *4.5mil.
J. Staal *4mil.
Hudler *2.8mil.
Ladd *4.4mil.
Henrique *875,000
Stepan *875,000
Grabovski *5.5mil.
Fisher *4.2mil.

2010-2011
Ennis *875,000
Weiss *3.1mil.
Hartnall *4.2mil.
Erat *4.5mil.
Samuelsson *2.5mil.
McDonald *4.7mil.
Kostitsyn *2.5mil.
Bourque 3.3mil.
Purcell *2.3mil.
Steen *3.3mil.

2009-2010
Kovalev *5mil.
Erat *4.5mil.
J. Staal *4mil.
Jokinen *3mil.
Vorecek *1.2mil.
Ponikarovsky *3.2mil.
Cammaleri *6mil.
Sullivan *3.7mil.
Frolov *3mil.
Fleischmann *4.5mil.
Hossa *5.2mil.
Pavelski *4mil.
Hornqvist *3mil.


How many of these players are a "steal"? How many are "overpaid"? IF Leino produces around the 45-55 pt. totals, his 4.5mil. cap hit is not much different than a handful of others making close to his salary for his (assumed) production, especially in years 3, 4, 5, and 6 of his contract. This past season, yes, he had a bad season. Therefore his cap hit was a hard pill to swallow.
Yes but 45-55 points would be ALL leino brings, a lot of those players bring a two way game or a physical game, for example I would have no problem paying a 49 point ryan clowe 4.5 million but a 49 point leino I wouldnt like

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