HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Jordan Staal V

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-27-2012, 12:21 PM
  #151
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
If Staal's stats get to be pro-rated Bolland's ought to be too. In 2010-2011 he was pro-rated for around 50 points. This year he was pro-rated for 40. He has the same issue as Staal in that our coach refuses to move him out of the third line center role because he's so good at it even though he could make for a good 2 Center. He put up 47 points in 2008-2009 and he has very excellent playoff stats (you call Staal a proven playoff warrior, but Bolland is as well. He has one more point in 24 less games.. isn't the big thing about Staal that he helps you win the Cup when the truth is in the playoffs throughout their career Bolland has played the same role as Staal has and done better at this point in their careers. I'm not saying Bolland > Staal. Everything indicates that it'd be Bolland++ for Staal not the other way around. However, to act like Bolland can't come in and play the same role for the Penguins as Staal- a role in which he has excelled in at the highest stage as he helped bring Chicago its only Cup in the last 50 years is pure ignorance. Some Pittsburgh fans have concluded that a great third line center replacement + Top Winger Prospect (here's what Hockeys Future had to say about Saad for those that don't like that he was a 2nd round pick a year ago..
"31. Brandon Saad-LW-Chicago Blackhawks. Height 6'2, Weight 211.
Brandon Saad plummeted to 43rd overall at the 2011 NHL Draft but was still able to make the Blackhawks' opening night roster with a revelatory training camp performance. He was dominant after returning to the OHL, where the versatile winger skated in all situations and was named the Saginaw Spirit's captain. He produced 1.73 points per game in an abbreviated junior season, amassing 34 goals, 42 assists in 44 games. Saad joined Team USA at the World Junior Championships, but struggled to produce along with the rest of the team against stiffer competition. At 6'1 and 202 pounds, Saad is strong on the puck and has a nose for the net. He has good speed and thinks the game well, allowing him to regularly find gaps in coverage in which to unleash his hard, accurate shot. In addition to two early regular season games, Saad also drew into Chicago's playoff line-up for two games after his junior season ended. He is all but assured to stick with the Blackhawks for the 2012-13 season." So Saad addresses a major need for Pittsburgh to stay relevant (high upside winger prospect that can give them somebody to put next to Crosby or Malkin and be productive) who is NHL ready (or else why would he play in 2 playoff games and be considered "all but assured to stick with the Blackhawks for the 2012-13 season". And then throw in an additional mid-first round which will give Pittsburgh another big prospect for the system who will be able to come in and provide a cheap contract with potential for results as they lose depth due to re-signing Crosby/Malkin. Keep in mind Bolland is signed for two years at a cheaper rate than Staal who is a pending UFA and will likely want a big payday and there is a very strong possibility will want a bigger role than being a 3C the rest of his career. Staal has a career high 50 points. You guys can't laud everyone else for speculations and then say that Staal is a 70 point first line center and for one year of him teams need to trade a package like the one that brought Richards in because you think Staal may be as good as him eventually. Richards was locked in forever at a good cap hit and possessed a much stronger and proven resume.
I won't read that wall of text.

Skimming: by all means, keep them. Bolland is a significant step down from Staal and Saad isn't the calibre of prospect we'd require to make up the difference.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:21 PM
  #152
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
That would be great, but we can't trade for Kulemin assuming that'll be the case. The fact of the matter is that he scored 7 goals last season and made 2.3 mil per last year. I'll start giving Kulemin his '10-'11 value when the rest of HF gives Paul Martin his '10-'11 value.

And Schenn was bad last year. For how that affects his value, see above.



No, I'm not. I'm saying that very good players make teams with great players even better. And none of the players offered to us in these deals are very good, nor are they a good bet to become very good.

That's the point. The trades Philly made got them quality depth, because in return for Carter and Richards they got young, blue-chip assets on the upswing. We're getting offered reclamation projects and middle-of-the-road prospects.

Surely you can see the difference.
Bolland is a reclamation project? Saad is a mid-level prospect? Staal has 4 seasons with over 60 points including one 1 over 70 and another over 80 and is signed for 10 years at a good cap hit? Surely you can see the difference. And Carter got traded for 8th + Voracek. Given what Pens fans have said about Carolina's proposal that clearly is seen as not good enough for most.

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:21 PM
  #153
StormCast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
its not a huge overpayment for a 50 point player who averages 20 minutes a night, is your #1 penalty killer, most defensively responsible forward, has 30 goal talent, and is 23.

Stop blanketting him at a 3C when he's clearly not a typical #3 center.
But he is the 3C in Pittsburgh and $6.5M is a ton of money to pay. The issue always seems to be a top 6 winger for the Pens. Why not deal Staal and use the savings to (or re-package part of what you get) to land a better top 6 wing? Then sign someone like Gaustad to be the 3C checking line forward - he's much better on draws anyway.

StormCast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:24 PM
  #154
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 27,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
There are not 29 teams that would be in a bidding war for Jordan Staal. Many teams don't have the need for another 2 center that would require them to spend significant assets to get him. Many other teams near the bottom of the standings aren't going to be seeking to trade significant assets for a guy who is a UFA after next year and will likely leave if their team isn't that good. It's actually a fairly narrow list of teams that would be willing to trade significant assets for Staal. I'm sure everyone would love him for free but he's obviously not being given away for just any package.
Well, of course it's a narrow list of teams that would enter a bidding war for Staal.

By the way, this whole 'he's a UFA after next year' thing is pure nonsense. Any GM looking to acquire him will know what it will take to resign him and whether Staal will play there long term before making a deal, and Staal will have every incentive to sign that deal right away (he'll be getting what he wants without having to worry about the impacts of the new CBA OR perhaps under-performing in an enhanced role on that team).

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:27 PM
  #155
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 27,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
But he is the 3C in Pittsburgh and $6.5M is a ton of money to pay. The issue always seems to be a top 6 winger for the Pens. Why not deal Staal and use the savings to (or re-package part of what you get) to land a better top 6 wing? Then sign someone like Gaustad to be the 3C checking line forward - he's much better on draws anyway.
You're absolutely right, which is why I said Shero will 'listen' regardless. But, if he doesn't get what he wants, then he'll hold his nose and sign Staal, although being able to sign Staal at 6M versus 6.5M would make a small difference in terms of his willingness to pull the trigger if he gets a deal with the value around where he wants.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:28 PM
  #156
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Well, of course it's a narrow list of teams that would enter a bidding war for Staal.

By the way, this whole 'he's a UFA after next year' thing is pure nonsense. Any GM looking to acquire him will know what it will take to resign him and whether Staal will play there long term before making a deal, and Staal will have every incentive to sign that deal right away (he'll be getting what he wants without having to worry about the impacts of the new CBA OR perhaps under-performing in an enhanced role on that team).
It's not "pure nonsense". If Staal doesn't like his new team for any number of reasons (team isn't good enough, doesn't like the city, doesn't particularly like the locker room) why wouldn't he wait for UFA where he can force a bidding war for his services and choose the place he likes best. He has zero connection to most other teams so it shouldn't be presumed he'll instantly fall in love upon being traded and want to spend the rest of his career there. Look at Jeff Carter.

The teams that would be interested in Staal are pretty narrowly limited to teams with serious playoff aspirations that have a need for a 2nd line center. Even then if you're going to demand the farm + whatever good cheap roster players they have they'll say no thanks to the price being too high.

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:28 PM
  #157
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Schenn was a blue chip asset. The 8th overall had upside. Simmonds was a good young player with upside who hadn't gone to the next level. Same for Voracek. Those two took the next step this season, but it was far from a sure thing.
Schenn was THE blue-chip asset in the Richards deal. I didn't say that every asset coming back for Staal would have to be blue-chip, but at least one would.

Voracek was a 21 year old who had already put up 50 points, and who was coming off a 46 point season. That's blue-chip in my books, and none of the assets offered to us for Staal have that value.

Young or not, we can't afford to be taking on players who aren't performing to their contracts like Schenn and Kulemin, and we certainly shouldn't part with Staal for that "privilege".

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:28 PM
  #158
StormCast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Bolland is a significant step down from Staal and Saad isn't the calibre of prospect we'd require to make up the difference.
Because you say so? Care to outline specifically how Bolland is a significant step down from Staal? Not the typical mantra of what Staal brings but an actual comparison between the two.

I'd also love to hear how many times you actually have seen Saad play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
You're absolutely right, which is why I said Shero will 'listen' regardless. But, if he doesn't get what he wants, then he'll hold his nose and sign Staal, although being able to sign Staal at 6M versus 6.5M would make a small difference in terms of his willingness to pull the trigger if he gets a deal with the value around where he wants.
It's also quite likely to be on an escalating contract. That way if Staal doesn't produce as anticipated the risk of overpayment is lessened and it buys time for the Crosby and Malkin deals. I could see an escalation starting at $5M and moving to over $6M in year 2 or 3.

StormCast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:32 PM
  #159
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 27,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
It's not "pure nonsense". If Staal doesn't like his new team for any number of reasons (team isn't good enough, doesn't like the city, doesn't particularly like the locker room) why wouldn't he wait for UFA where he can force a bidding war for his services and choose the place he likes best. He has zero connection to most other teams so it shouldn't be presumed he'll instantly fall in love upon being traded and want to spend the rest of his career there. Look at Jeff Carter.

The teams that would be interested in Staal are pretty narrowly limited to teams with serious playoff aspirations that have a need for a 2nd line center. Even then if you're going to demand the farm + whatever good cheap roster players they have they'll say no thanks to the price being too high.
No offense, but NO GM will trade for Staal if they don't think they can resign him, and the two variables in deciding that are (a) being willing to pay Staal what he wants and (b) knowing whether Staal would stay if they give him what he wants, and ANY GM worth his salt will do due diligence on both variables. At the same time, you're missing one thing: Staal has everything to gain and practically nothing to lose by signing a new deal. The new CBA can only impact his value negatively. A season of play, if he under-performs, can only impact his value negatively. I'm going to assume you just didn't catch that in my previous post . . .

Additionally, two teams that I think would be big bidders for Staal if Shero is willing to entertain offers are Toronto and Buffalo, and both would slot him as 1C.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:33 PM
  #160
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 27,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
Because you say so? Care to outline specifically how Bolland is a significant step down from Staal? Not the typical mantra of what Staal brings but an actual comparison between the two.

I'd also love to hear how many times you actually have seen Saad play.


It's also quite likely to be on an escalating contract. That way if Staal doesn't produce as anticipated the risk of overpayment is lessened and it buys time for the Crosby and Malkin deals. I could see an escalation starting at $5M and moving to over $6M in year 2 or 3.
But, the escalating deal makes no difference in terms of the cap hit, which will be uniform over the life of the deal. It's the potential cap hit, not the amount paid in any particular year, that will be Shero's concern.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:33 PM
  #161
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,823
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
if you really think that would be the best offer of any team interested and Shero would pull the trigger on that, then...i don't even...
I never said any of that. There was that little back-and-forth between two Penguin fans on whether Jokinen + Sutter + 8th for Staal + Martin + 20th was a better offer than what had been proposed thus far. I simply commented that I'd do the Jokinen deal, but added the McBain deal was probably more in Pittsburgh's favor.

Blueline Bomber is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:35 PM
  #162
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 27,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Schenn was THE blue-chip asset in the Richards deal. I didn't say that every asset coming back for Staal would have to be blue-chip, but at least one would.

Voracek was a 21 year old who had already put up 50 points, and who was coming off a 46 point season. That's blue-chip in my books, and none of the assets offered to us for Staal have that value.

Young or not, we can't afford to be taking on players who aren't performing to their contracts like Schenn and Kulemin, and we certainly shouldn't part with Staal for that "privilege".
Got it. That's why I said that the 5th overall and Kulemin would be the starting point from Shero's perspective (comparison here is more to the Carter deal . . . Kulemin v Voracek and then the 5th overall versus the 7th overall). And, then, as stated, Shero will be looking for Burke to add (and to add more than something like just Bozak).

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:37 PM
  #163
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 27,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
I never said any of that. There was that little back-and-forth between two Penguin fans on whether Jokinen + Sutter + 8th for Staal + Martin + 20th was a better offer than what had been proposed thus far. I simply commented that I'd do the Jokinen deal, but added the McBain deal was probably more in Pittsburgh's favor.
1. Still love your avatar.

2. I see Rutherford's offer (at some point into discussions) in the end being Sutter, McBain, and the 8th for Staal and Martin. I think another team will top that and Shero will counter trying to get Faulk (which he won't . . . just saying how I think it happens if Shero is listening).

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:39 PM
  #164
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
No offense, but NO GM will trade for Staal if they don't think they can resign him, and the two variables in deciding that are (a) being willing to pay Staal what he wants and (b) knowing whether Staal would stay if they give him what he wants, and ANY GM worth his salt will do due diligence on both variables. At the same time, you're missing one thing: Staal has everything to gain and practically nothing to lose by signing a new deal. The new CBA can only impact his value negatively. A season of play, if he under-performs, can only impact his value negatively. I'm going to assume you just didn't catch that in my previous post . . .

Additionally, two teams that I think would be big bidders for Staal if Shero is willing to entertain offers are Toronto and Buffalo, and both would slot him as 1C.
Why would I be offended? You agreed with me. There are a number of teams that can probably conclude that if they trade for Staal there is a considerable chance that he won't re-sign with them (for example, CLB and NYI could offer a great package for Staal but he'd just leave in free agency almost certainly so they'd be off the market for him). You want whatever team that will trade for Staal to be a team that will be willing to make themselves significantly worse for him (since that's the criteria that's been outlined, very few Pittsburgh fan is willing to accept a deal where they don't get the best player back). The reality is being a pending UFA does drive his trade value down because teams just don't know what's going to happen. He could be a great 1C and still want to go sign with his brother or play for someone else. Or he could keep putting up 50 points and maybe re-sign and maybe not.

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:39 PM
  #165
StormCast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
But, the escalating deal makes no difference in terms of the cap hit, which will be uniform over the life of the deal. It's the potential cap hit, not the amount paid in any particular year, that will be Shero's concern.
Of course but with the increase in the cap, I think the bigger issue will be how top-weighted the salary distribution is across 4 players, especially if one is on the 3rd line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Additionally, two teams that I think would be big bidders for Staal if Shero is willing to entertain offers are Toronto and Buffalo, and both would slot him as 1C.
TO quite likely, Buffalo no as much slotting at 1C. Roy, even coming off a down year, is a superior playmaker vs. Staal and that's what they need for Vanek. Staal would be the 2C there IMO.

StormCast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:42 PM
  #166
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Bolland is a reclamation project? Saad is a mid-level prospect? Staal has 4 seasons with over 60 points including one 1 over 70 and another over 80 and is signed for 10 years at a good cap hit? Surely you can see the difference. And Carter got traded for 8th + Voracek. Given what Pens fans have said about Carolina's proposal that clearly is seen as not good enough for most.
Bolland is getting paid 3.5 mil per to score 37 points on the 3rd line. That's not what we need out of the surest thing in a Staal deal.

I've outlined many times in these threads why I believe Staal has value similar to Richards (age, breakout, the differences in their respective situations). Look through them for a thorough breakdown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
But he is the 3C in Pittsburgh and $6.5M is a ton of money to pay. The issue always seems to be a top 6 winger for the Pens. Why not deal Staal and use the savings to (or re-package part of what you get) to land a better top 6 wing? Then sign someone like Gaustad to be the 3C checking line forward - he's much better on draws anyway.
Yeah, who? If you can guarantee that Parise will sign with us this year, I'm sure we'd be willing to part with Staal for a very reasonable price. If not, things look pretty barren in terms of good fits.

And if Staal isn't going to net us a good wing, none of the grab-bag of assets we get back is going to entice anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
Because you say so? Care to outline specifically how Bolland is a significant step down from Staal? Not the typical mantra of what Staal brings but an actual comparison between the two.

I'd also love to hear how many times you actually have seen Saad play.
Well, let's see. He's considerably more productive in goals and points, he's better defensively, he's better on face-offs, and he's 2 years younger coming off a breakout year. So, pretty much everything.

As for Saad? His WJC games. I don't have time to watch all my team's games, their prospect's games, and all the junior games of other teams' prospects like every other poster on HF.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:43 PM
  #167
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 27,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Why would I be offended? You agreed with me. There are a number of teams that can probably conclude that if they trade for Staal there is a considerable chance that he won't re-sign with them (for example, CLB and NYI could offer a great package for Staal but he'd just leave in free agency almost certainly so they'd be off the market for him). You want whatever team that will trade for Staal to be a team that will be willing to make themselves significantly worse for him (since that's the criteria that's been outlined, very few Pittsburgh fan is willing to accept a deal where they don't get the best player back). The reality is being a pending UFA does drive his trade value down because teams just don't know what's going to happen. He could be a great 1C and still want to go sign with his brother or play for someone else. Or he could keep putting up 50 points and maybe re-sign and maybe not.
Staal being an impending UFA limits Shero's potential trade partners. It does NOT lessen Staal's trade value. The laws of supply and demand would apply IF there was ample supply of players like Staal out there. There are goalies, wingers like Parise and Nash, but there's only one guy like Staal potentially available via trade (and there are NONE on the UFA market). Whether there are 5 or 10 teams that get into a bidding war only makes a difference if one of the 5 teams won't step up to add that premium for Staal. With Toronto and Buffalo, for example, I don't think that will be an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
Of course but with the increase in the cap, I think the bigger issue will be how top-weighted the salary distribution is across 4 players, especially if one is on the 3rd line.


TO quite likely, Buffalo no as much slotting at 1C. Roy, even coming off a down year, is a superior playmaker vs. Staal and that's what they need for Vanek. Staal would be the 2C there IMO.
Agree to disagree about Buffalo. As for the weighting of salary, I'm still not following. The cap hit is the same regardless of whether the contract pays more dollars later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Bolland is getting paid 3.5 mil per to score 37 points on the 3rd line. That's not what we need out of the surest thing in a Staal deal.

I've outlined many times in these threads why I believe Staal has value similar to Richards (age, breakout, the differences in their respective situations). Look through them for a thorough breakdown.



Yeah, who? If you can guarantee that Parise will sign with us this year, I'm sure we'd be willing to part with Staal for a very reasonable price. If not, things look pretty barren in terms of good fits.



Well, let's see. He's considerably more productive in goals and points, he's better defensively, he's better on face-offs, and he's 2 years younger coming off a breakout year. So, pretty much everything.

As for Saad? His WJC games. I don't have time to watch all my team's games, their prospect's games, and all the junior games of other teams' prospects like every other poster on HF.
ALL things being equal, I'm not sure that Staal has the same trade value as Richards. BUT, all things aren't equal. Last year, it was Richards AND Carter offered (and you had Brad Richards as a free agent). This year, it's only going to be Staal out there at C, potentially in the trade market or available in free agency. Additionally, Richards and Carter weren't really put out there. Holmgren didn't want long discussions with a half dozen to a dozen teams. He targeted a few select teams, said '**** or get off the pot', and the deals happened (he could have gotten more if he'd have shopped them, but that really wasn't an option from his perspective).


Last edited by KIRK: 05-27-2012 at 12:48 PM.
KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:44 PM
  #168
wej20
Registered User
 
wej20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Swansea,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 21,324
vCash: 500
Did you see him play us in pre-seasons CW?

wej20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:46 PM
  #169
StormCast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Well, let's see. He's considerably more productive in goals and points, he's better defensively, he's better on face-offs, and he's 2 years younger coming off a breakout year. So, pretty much everything.

As for Saad? His WJC games. I don't have time to watch all my team's games, their prospect's games, and all the junior games of other teams' prospects like every other poster on HF.
Well who can argue with that in-depth analysis.

So in other words, you really aren't very familiar with Bolland and have no clue about Saad. Appreciate you confirming the suspicion.

StormCast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:48 PM
  #170
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Did you see him play us in pre-seasons CW?
I may have. Don't remember.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:50 PM
  #171
mr sidney crosby
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 970
vCash: 500
The best trade partners to me are either the leafs or blues. Leafs have a ton of wing prospects that you can either have kadri, kulemin, bozak, or the 5th overall pick.
The blues have Vladimir Tarasenko one of the nhl's best prospects that would look amazing next to malkin (he's a rw) they have TJ oshie one of the more physical forwards in the game, Ian cole, and chris stewart.
IMO, shero should call up both of them gm's and ask if they're interested and if they are then great go from there and if not then hey you tried there's other teams out there with good trade assets or you sign staal and trade martin and others people if necessary. Like someone said depth wins championships not one player.

mr sidney crosby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:53 PM
  #172
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Bolland is getting paid 3.5 mil per to score 37 points on the 3rd line. That's not what we need out of the surest thing in a Staal deal.

I've outlined many times in these threads why I believe Staal has value similar to Richards (age, breakout, the differences in their respective situations). Look through them for a thorough breakdown.



Yeah, who? If you can guarantee that Parise will sign with us this year, I'm sure we'd be willing to part with Staal for a very reasonable price. If not, things look pretty barren in terms of good fits.

And if Staal isn't going to net us a good wing, none of the grab-bag of assets we get back is going to entice anyone.



Well, let's see. He's considerably more productive in goals and points, he's better defensively, he's better on face-offs, and he's 2 years younger coming off a breakout year. So, pretty much everything.

As for Saad? His WJC games. I don't have time to watch all my team's games, their prospect's games, and all the junior games of other teams' prospects like every other poster on HF.
Bolland is one of the best third line centers in the game. If we apply the same pro-rating magic you apply to Staal he is a 40-50 point player. A downgrade from Staal but "significant". Not sure. Everything Staal does Bolland does well too. A slightly worse face-off percentage I guess. You got me there. He's also cheaper allowing your team to spend more money elsewhere and actually address the reasons why you haven't done anything the last three years.

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:53 PM
  #173
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
Well who can argue with that in-depth analysis.

So in other words, you really aren't very familiar with Bolland and have no clue about Saad. Appreciate you confirming the suspicion.
Staal is obviously a much more productive player, younger, and coming off a much better season, and I've yet to find a statistic that can convince anyone that a player is better defensively than another.

I'm not going on a wild data goose chase here, digging through obscure stats for an hour to satisfy your vaguely-defined demands.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:55 PM
  #174
StormCast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Agree to disagree about Buffalo. As for the weighting of salary, I'm still not following. The cap hit is the same regardless of whether the contract pays more dollars later.
How would Staal make a better option as the 1C in Buffalo instead of Roy? Yes, Roy had a down year but Staal, as a non-playmaking C would be a much better fit with Stafford and Hodgson because they can create their shots better than a guy like Vanek.

Yes, I understand how the cap hit works. If I'm Shero the cap isn't going to be my top priority as I can ship out some contracts. My biggest concern is that the payroll is very top heavy with my Malkin, Crosby, Neal, etc.

If I re-signing Staal, I'm in part buying myself some team with a back-loaded deal which helps figure out is Crosby's health ok and what will it take further down the road with Malkin. If Crosby's continues to struggle physically, then having Jordan Staal is a great hedge. If he comes back strong and Malkin puts up another great year, then you reconsider trading Staal. Yes, his cap hit will be static but his lower salary might be more attractive for the teams that could use him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Staal is obviously a much more productive player, younger, and coming off a much better season, and I've yet to find a statistic that can convince anyone that a player is better defensively than another.

I'm not going on a wild data goose chase here, digging through obscure stats for an hour to satisfy your vaguely-defined demands.
Who said anything about stats? Not me. You can tell by one's argument (that includes mine too) whether someone has extensively watched a player. Save your time, and no offense but it's abundantly clear you haven't seen enough Bolland or Saad to offer a meaningful opinion.

StormCast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-27-2012, 12:57 PM
  #175
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Bolland is one of the best third line centers in the game. If we apply the same pro-rating magic you apply to Staal he is a 40-50 point player. A downgrade from Staal but "significant". Not sure. Everything Staal does Bolland does well too. A slightly worse face-off percentage I guess. You got me there. He's also cheaper allowing your team to spend more money elsewhere and actually address the reasons why you haven't done anything the last three years.
Trading the guy who led our team in scoring this past post-season must be the solution to our playoff woes, right?

Maybe you should trade Toews for Stephen Weiss. He's cheaper, allowing your team to spend more money elsewhere and actually address the reasons why you haven't done anything the last two years.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:49 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.