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KHL Draft 2012

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Old
05-27-2012, 02:02 PM
  #176
vorky
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Originally Posted by Coramoor View Post
dumbest rule ever... Especially as it's so easy to abuse. You'll just get a whole bunch of filatov situations, with KHL teams paying the guys contract back to the NHL team under the table. I get that they want to keep guys in the KHL.However, if you have to resort to such ridiculous rules though you're not proving your league is any good, just that people are afraid of not having a guaranteed paycheck

edit: not implying that filatov's khl team is paying them back, I would seriously doubt that, but that's what it will come to with rules like this
Filatov was not drafted in KHL. Maybe you just wrote his name as example because he moved back to KHL.

I dont agree with you. It is clever rule. Player should know what he wants. It is all about leaving Russia too early, like Grigorenko did. If he thinks it is best, so ok. But he lost chance to play KHL. We dont know how his developing will go on. What if he is Filatov case?

This rule is clever. KHL entry contract (in case of protection) expires 30.4. of a year when kid is 20 (so 3 seasons). You can develop your game at home (KHL, MHL) and as 20er go to NHL if you want. No need to follow Grigorenko´s example.

Imagine situation this summer with Grigorenko (if I understand it)
- 1.he signs with CSKA, contract will expire after 13/14 season.
- 2.he signs in NHL, contract will expire after 14/15 I believe (correct me)

1.After expiration of CSKA contract he can resign or sign in NHL. He would have 2 choices in future - KHL/NHL.

2.After expiration of NHL contract, he can resign. He would have 1 choice in future - NHL. OR he can sing with CSKA after NHL ELC contract to save his KHL availability.

I would say no.1 is better way how to arrange carrer. You never know if you are Filatov case.

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05-27-2012, 02:12 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Well of course that Finn, being a fan of a KHL team, would also have knowledge of the league's rules since he mentioned the said rule.

What? Are YOU trolling or just insane/stupid? Besides, you're not even Russian are you? Why is it such a big deal to you if some KHL team ef's up at the draft?
would be kind of you if you behave as human beining not like "rude existence". No need to insult posters.

I know many people, journalist who dont know KHL rules. Why should I believe this finn guy? Btw, I wanted you to write rules about KHL draft (ban to draft guys with NHL contract) and NHL rules about validity of contract. You have not reply me until now.

Maybe you dont know, but KHL contract is valid after REGISTRATION not singing. I just ask you how it works in NHL (and I dont want answer - according my friend it is... I want quote of rules)

Try not to troll, would be great.

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05-27-2012, 02:21 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Well of course that Finn, being a fan of a KHL team, would also have knowledge of the league's rules since he mentioned the said rule.

What? Are YOU trolling or just insane/stupid? Besides, you're not even Russian are you? Why is it such a big deal to you if some KHL team ef's up at the draft?
I dont think it matters if a player has an NHL contract. I think he can still be drafted by the KHL. After all its just rights in a league. NHL does it all the time in all leagues. Slepyshev, I'm sure will be drafted in the NHL this year and he has a valid KHL contract and is an active player.

The NHL-KHL agreement is to respect each others contracts, and not sign players, that is, sothat KHL teams dont poach players like Radulov, and NHL dont poach players like Malkin. As far as having the rights of players I dont think that is covered.

I may be wrong.

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05-27-2012, 02:27 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Filatov was not drafted in KHL. Maybe you just wrote his name as example because he moved back to KHL.

I dont agree with you. It is clever rule. Player should know what he wants. It is all about leaving Russia too early, like Grigorenko did. If he thinks it is best, so ok. But he lost chance to play KHL. We dont know how his developing will go on. What if he is Filatov case?

This rule is clever. KHL entry contract (in case of protection) expires 30.4. of a year when kid is 20 (so 3 seasons). You can develop your game at home (KHL, MHL) and as 20er go to NHL if you want. No need to follow Grigorenko´s example.

Imagine situation this summer with Grigorenko (if I understand it)
- 1.he signs with CSKA, contract will expire after 13/14 season.
- 2.he signs in NHL, contract will expire after 14/15 I believe (correct me)

1.After expiration of CSKA contract he can resign or sign in NHL. He would have 2 choices in future - KHL/NHL.

2.After expiration of NHL contract, he can resign. He would have 1 choice in future - NHL. OR he can sing with CSKA after NHL ELC contract to save his KHL availability.

I would say no.1 is better way how to arrange carrer. You never know if you are Filatov case.
protectionism is dangerous, although 20 is really not too bad I suppose, makes sense if you want to see the slightly below superstar level players in your league for a few years. I don't see players like Yakupov being deterred but it could certainly deter others.

What are the boundaries on this rule. If a player leaves for the CHL at 16, before he can be offered contract is he no longer eligible till 29, or something different?

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05-27-2012, 02:55 PM
  #180
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Vorky, chill, Jussi isn't trolling in the least bit, just stating what he knows

Is the contract valid before july 1st? probably not.

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05-27-2012, 03:06 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yunost View Post
I dont think it matters if a player has an NHL contract. I think he can still be drafted by the KHL. After all its just rights in a league. NHL does it all the time in all leagues. Slepyshev, I'm sure will be drafted in the NHL this year and he has a valid KHL contract and is an active player.

The NHL-KHL agreement is to respect each others contracts, and not sign players, that is, sothat KHL teams dont poach players like Radulov, and NHL dont poach players like Malkin. As far as having the rights of players I dont think that is covered.

I may be wrong.
All I know is that the poster said two years ago that there appears to be a rule where they cannot draft players under an NHL contract, referencing how ZSKA tried to draft Mikael Backlund, Sibir Philip Larsen and Lokomotiv John Tavares and how all those draft pics were voided by the KHL then.

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05-27-2012, 03:22 PM
  #182
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What are the boundaries on this rule. If a player leaves for the CHL at 16, before he can be offered contract is he no longer eligible till 29, or something different?
At first, forget players like Khohklachev (not drafted in KHL) or Yakupov (drafted 2010, these days there were another rules). Only draft 2011 and 2012 (+ in future) take into account.

This protection rule is a bit complicated. Look at this year, Sergey Fedorov (CSKA) protected Dikushin and drafted Tolchintsky, Zadorov for example.
This rule, we are talking about, does not apply to Tolchintsky, Zadorov but only to Dikushin (+ Nichushkin, Buchnevich, Lysenko, Barbashev, Serebryakov to name famous guys from other clubs). All of them wil get 3y-contract from their KHL club until 1.8. 2012. If they dont sign it, they have to leave Russia (to Sweden, CHL, others) because they will not be eligible for playing MHL, VHL, KHL until 29y (same scenario like Grigorenko). Dikushin and Lysenko played in USA this season.

To answer you for your Q about leaving at 16. Answer si NO. A few thing has to happen (all of them):

1.your russian club has to get protection right (not all clubs get it, but powers like CSKA, Dynamo etc will have it, it is about money, club has to invest them into developing to get protection right)

2.I was not sure, but it seems leaving for NA one year before KHL draft takes place (like Dikusin) does not have any influence for club to protect the kid. There was discussion on HFB in past if CSKA can protect Dikushin (he did not play in Russia this season). He was protected by CSKA.

3.Kid has to be protected at draft. It means, that other club wants to steal you from your club. For example Dikushin - his club is CSKA. Lokomotiv wanted to drafted/steal him but CSKA said NO. So, his KHL rights belong to CSKA. Similar situation was with Nikhuskin (playing for Traktor´s jr this season). Dinamo Minsk wanted to draft him, but Traktor protected him. KHL rights belong to Traktor.

So, these 3 steps have to happen to player to be protected. Then this rule applies to him (so he has to sign KHL contract or not be no longer eligible till 29). Of course, if I understand rules correctly.

Imagine situation with Dikuhsin as example of a kid leaving for NA at the age before he can be offered KHL contract:
A) he was protected by CSKA, so he has to sign in KHL
B) what if?? if CSKA did not use protection right?? So, he would be drafted in KHL (by CSKA or other team) or undrafted. All in all, he would be able to sign KHL contract with every team when he is 22 (if drafted) or he would be able to sign KHL contract with every team NOW (if undrafted). Thats another situation like REALITY (see A)).

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05-27-2012, 03:25 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
All I know is that the poster said two years ago that there appears to be a rule where they cannot draft players under an NHL contract, referencing how ZSKA tried to draft Mikael Backlund, Sibir Philip Larsen and Lokomotiv John Tavares and how all those draft pics were voided by the KHL then.
thats is true but KHL changed rules about draft last year. You can not take 2year old information as fact. Therefore I want you to quote KHL/NHL rules de lege lata.

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05-27-2012, 03:33 PM
  #184
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the "protection" is the same thing as preffered selection (преимущественный выбор), right?

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05-27-2012, 03:51 PM
  #185
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I guess step 2 is the part that bothers me. I understand that these programs incur a large cost to train players but If a player is not in Russia at the time of draft and did not play the season before that in Russia it seems harsh to force their hand in this way. Either sign with us for 3 years now, or you can't play in Russia for 12. Despite the fact you've already indicated you'd like to play in CHL or USHL or w/e

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05-27-2012, 05:41 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zorz View Post
the "protection" is the same thing as preffered selection (преимущественный выбор), right?
yes, I did not know what english term to use.

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05-27-2012, 05:49 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Coramoor View Post
I guess step 2 is the part that bothers me. I understand that these programs incur a large cost to train players but If a player is not in Russia at the time of draft and did not play the season before that in Russia it seems harsh to force their hand in this way. Either sign with us for 3 years now, or you can't play in Russia for 12. Despite the fact you've already indicated you'd like to play in CHL or USHL or w/e
I was also suprised when I was watching draft on saturday. I thought guy can not be protected if does not play in Russia during KHL draft season. Experience from last draft says that he can.

Nobody forces Dikushin (others) to sign contract in KHL. All guys can make voluntary decision. If you choose NA, it is your risk. I still say, Kuznetsov/Tarsenko did best thing ever - stay at home until NHL ready. No rush for CHL/AHL route, kids dont need it

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05-27-2012, 06:53 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I was also suprised when I was watching draft on saturday. I thought guy can not be protected if does not play in Russia during KHL draft season. Experience from last draft says that he can.

Nobody forces Dikushin (others) to sign contract in KHL. All guys can make voluntary decision. If you choose NA, it is your risk. I still say, Kuznetsov/Tarsenko did best thing ever - stay at home until NHL ready. No rush for CHL/AHL route, kids dont need it
The CHL/AHL route is preferred because they like to know they've been taught the dump and chase game as well as the heavy emphasis on defense. It took kovalchuk 10 years but now he's solid defensively. CHL/AHL will probably speed that up a little bit.

Also Really hope Tarasenko comes over this year, he's going to be amazing to watch. I haven't heard that he's signed anywhere yet in the KHL

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05-27-2012, 07:04 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
thats is true but KHL changed rules about draft last year. You can not take 2year old information as fact. Therefore I want you to quote KHL/NHL rules de lege lata.
Link (in English)?

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05-27-2012, 07:15 PM
  #190
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it seems to me the rule that you either sign with the KHL team or don't play in the KHL or russia till your 29, would push kids to play in other leagues, especially if you can protect kids that are in the CHL, because kids that come from Finland or Sweden can come play in the CHL get drafted to the NHL then return home till they develop and then come back if they are good enough. coming from a north american perspective it just seems odd

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05-28-2012, 02:15 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Link (in English)?
no, only russian, you can find it on khl website.

Coramoor
Tarasenko received QO from SKA. He (and Thikhonov) is considering it.
I understand you with CHL/AHL route but in my eyes it is overrated. Look at Orlov. He did not play CHL, he left russia at 20, play immidiately NHL + a few games AHL. On the other site, Grigorenko chose CHL.. no neeed. He could sign with CSKA last summer, contract would expire after 13/14 season, then he could sign NHL. Russian hockey federation consider leaving for CHL as the worst option for a kid. Therefore such rules. Playing AHL is not good as well, but a bit better than CHL.


Last edited by vorky: 05-28-2012 at 02:21 AM.
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05-28-2012, 03:15 AM
  #192
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you make more money signing a pro contract with cska, but you have to wait an extra year (you said 2014 season) and you get less icetime and less exposure to scouts; plus CHL gets you a head start on adjusting to the north american size arena

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05-28-2012, 03:58 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
you make more money signing a pro contract with cska, but you have to wait an extra year (you said 2014 season) and you get less icetime and less exposure to scouts; plus CHL gets you a head start on adjusting to the north american size arena
Tarasenko and especially Kuznetsov say hello

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05-28-2012, 06:58 AM
  #194
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NAME - CHL - KHL

Faksa -Kitchener- Neftekhimik
Graborenko -Cape Breton- Dinamo Minsk
Gernát -Edmonton- Salavat Yulaev Ufa
Rakell -Plymouth- Sibir
Zharkov -Belleville Bulls- Novokuznetsk
Hyka - Gatineau Olympiques- Spartak Moscow
Bartchi -Calgary- Severstal
Jensen -Oshawa- Salavat Yulaev Ufa
MacKinnon -Halifax- Vityaz
Trocheck -Saginaw- Vityaz
Prince -Ottawa- Vityaz
Beran -.P.E.I.- Salavat Yulaev Ufa
Humphries -Calgary Hitmen- Traktor Chelyabinsk
Will -Moncton Wildcats- HC LEV Prague


clever pick, undrafted in NHL, 20y old. What does he plan for future??
LOL they actually drafted Mackinnon? This draft seems like a total crapshoot "oh whatever lets just draft Mackinnon and hope he'll bust and comes over"

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05-28-2012, 09:07 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Bad for Vityaz, they lost Goldobin, Ilya Ivanov. According to MHL stats best prospects. Especially Goldobin.. Managment of Vityaz is crap. They traded Panarin + 1st round pick (3rd overall) for SOMETHING. Why they addded draft pick to Panarin´s trade?? They had to know that they wont have protection right.
What did they get for Panarin + 3rd overall?

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05-28-2012, 09:11 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
no, only russian, you can find it on khl website.
Yeah, since it's not in English, I'll sure find it!

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05-28-2012, 09:22 AM
  #197
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LOL they actually drafted Mackinnon? This draft seems like a total crapshoot "oh whatever lets just draft Mackinnon and hope he'll bust and comes over"
Vityaz has an history of taking North American kids expected to be taken high in the NHL draft. Last year, Vityaz used up #5 on Huberdeau, a third-rounder on Dumba and a fifth-rounder on McNeill. Don't know if Trocheck is expected to be taken high in 2013, but Trocheck is also a Vityaz draftee.

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05-28-2012, 09:53 AM
  #198
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Vityaz has an history of taking North American kids expected to be taken high in the NHL draft. Last year, Vityaz used up #5 on Huberdeau, a third-rounder on Dumba and a fifth-rounder on McNeill. Don't know if Trocheck is expected to be taken high in 2013, but Trocheck is also a Vityaz draftee.
Vityaz is probably just trolling KHL representatives with their picks.

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05-28-2012, 10:16 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by zorz View Post
Vityaz is probably just trolling KHL representatives with their picks.
Maybe. Vityaz GM said after draft that club wanted to draft its kids (Goldobin, Ilya Ivanov a Schatskiy). Unfortunatelly, Goldobin and Ivanov were picked by others (Vityaz did not have protection right). Club did not see (bad scouting) any good RUSSIAN prospects (not protected), so chose Canadians. It is better than pick nobody. You know, KHL clubs have to pay money compensations for russian players from other clubs. So, if there is anybody good enough, so I will draft foreigner instead of.

financial compensations (rubles)
Quote:
1st round - 3 000 000
2nd - 2 000 000
3rd - 1 000 000
4th - 500 000
5th - 300 000
Imagine you are Vityaz GM, you have finnancial trouble, no good prospect in Russia (or your scouting is bad). What would you do? The same situation with Novokuznetsk, club wanted to draft russian kids, but they were picked by others or protected. So, only chance to draft foreigners. Novokuznetsk chose Europeans, maybe Vityaz could do the same.. maybe trolling like you said.

That is important to know. Russian KHL clubs draft foreigners because there is not so much ELIGIBLE talent in Russia. Many GMs did not like protection rule of 5 kids (last year it was only 3). Maybe league should fix it.

it is not like clubs are praying for possible player´s coming to KHL (if fails in NA) but drafting foreigners is mostly about money compensations and lack of eligible talent in Russia.

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05-28-2012, 10:26 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Maybe. Vityaz GM said after draft that club wanted to draft its kids (Goldobin, Ilya Ivanov a Schatskiy). Unfortunatelly, Goldobin and Ivanov were picked by others (Vityaz did not have protection right). Club did not see (bad scouting) any good RUSSIAN prospects (not protected), so chose Canadians. It is better than pick nobody. You know, KHL clubs have to pay money compensations for russian players from other clubs. So, if there is anybody good enough, so I will draft foreigner instead of.

financial compensations (rubles)


Imagine you are Vityaz GM, you have finnancial trouble, no good prospect in Russia (or your scouting is bad). What would you do? The same situation with Novokuznetsk, club wanted to draft russian kids, but they were picked by others or protected. So, only chance to draft foreigners. Novokuznetsk chose Europeans, maybe Vityaz could do the same.. maybe trolling like you said.

That is important to know. Russian KHL clubs draft foreigners because there is not so much ELIGIBLE talent in Russia. Many GMs did not like protection rule of 5 kids (last year it was only 3). Maybe league should fix it.

it is not like clubs are praying for possible player´s coming to KHL (if fails in NA) but drafting foreigners is mostly about money compensations and lack of eligible talent in Russia.
Personally I'd draft CHL high scoring kids undrafted by NHL teams (Traktor did something similar with Humphries as you already pointed out earlier). Other KHL teams probably didn't think so far ahead yet. Maybe they'll try that in the future.

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