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Ryan Kesler Unhappy?

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Old
05-28-2012, 07:30 AM
  #301
Blind Gardien
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Habs don't have the depth to manage this. Kesler is indeed an upgrade over Plekanec alone, but he's also going to miss some time, and while the Canucks maybe can afford that, the Habs can't afford to start the season with the void it would leave at center. As one factor. But even beyond that, the Habs are too thin, and need to keep Plekanec and also hope for continued emergence from Eller.

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05-28-2012, 07:56 AM
  #302
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[QUOTE=startainfection;50224599]kesler to long island for 4th overall, 33rd overall (there is no way the devils keep their first round pick this season)



if you are implying that all selke winners are divers where do you rank datsyuk on your scale?[/QUOT

Never said thar selkie winners are divers....and by the way Datsyuk has won a cup...If im the Canucks i get rid of Kessler so fast. Hes the reason they lost the first round. All the diving and drawi.g penalty attempts started with Kessler the guy is a horrible leader.

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05-28-2012, 08:16 AM
  #303
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[QUOTE=chrismancuso97;50235911]
Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
kesler to long island for 4th overall, 33rd overall (there is no way the devils keep their first round pick this season)



if you are implying that all selke winners are divers where do you rank datsyuk on your scale?[/QUOT

Never said thar selkie winners are divers....and by the way Datsyuk has won a cup...If im the Canucks i get rid of Kessler so fast. Hes the reason they lost the first round. All the diving and drawi.g penalty attempts started with Kessler the guy is a horrible leader.
There's a reason why he's not captain...

I'd do any trade involving a young 1C or 2C+ coming back.

Stepan, Henrique, Johansson, Sutter, Schenn plus a defenseman or top 9 forward

or

Johansen, Huberdeau, Strome, Duschene, RNH(!)

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Old
05-28-2012, 09:46 AM
  #304
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I like the depth upgrade and I like both players, but i believe that Kesler is going to come back from his injury and play like he did before. Also I have faith in Jordan Schroeder, not that I wouldn't take eller, but not for Kesler. I don't want to trade our cartwheeler.

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05-28-2012, 10:05 AM
  #305
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[QUOTE=GoTeamDom;50236139]
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismancuso97 View Post

There's a reason why he's not captain...

I'd do any trade involving a young 1C or 2C+ coming back.

Stepan, Henrique, Johansson, Sutter, Schenn plus a defenseman or top 9 forward

or

Johansen, Huberdeau, Strome, Duschene, RNH(!)
You could maybe get something like at the deadline from a team that thinks it is one piece away, but not at the draft. From what I saw from Schenn, I wouldn't trade him straight up for Kesler if I was Philly. Plus Henrique is pretty much untouchable based on how GMLL holds onto his younger players.

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Old
05-28-2012, 10:12 AM
  #306
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Kessler is better right. How much better. And exactly at what. Check their stats.

2003-04 28 2 3 5 16
2005-06 82 10 13 23 79
2006-07 48 6 10 16 40
2007-08 80 21 16 37 79
2008-09 82 26 33 59 61
2009-10 82 25 50 75 104
2010-11 82 41 32 73 66
2011-12 77 22 27 49 56
Totals 561 153 184 337 501



2003-04 2 0 0 0 0
2005-06 67 9 20 29 32
2006-07 81 20 27 47 36
2007-08 81 29 40 69 42
2008-09 80 20 19 39 54
2009-10 82 25 45 70 50
2010-11 77 22 35 57 60
2011-12 81 17 35 52 56
Career 551 142 221 363 330

I didn't list names or teams. Just guess who is who. Stats wise, there isn't much difference. If you go beyond the stats, then what is it exactly that Kessler brings that is so much better than Plekanec. Keep in mind that Plekanec's never had the benefit of the Sedins on his teams. He doesn't get to play with them on the PP or when his team is desperate for goals. His opponents don't send out their second best defensive pair and second line against him. Aside from this year, he was the best forward on the Habs and the coverage from his oponents was their best line, and their best defensive pairing.

To me this looks more like a one for one deal. And I don't think any team gets better from this trade, just a little different.

I don't see the Canucks doing this unless Kessler absolutely wants out and they can't get any better which would be very likely if he wanted out. Chances are they'd get a two or three for one, but none better than Plekanec. Plekanec is a softer player than Kessler, and I don't think the Canucks are looking to get softer on their top two lines.

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Old
05-28-2012, 10:30 AM
  #307
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I like Kesler but too much. Plekanec and him are similar in impact as it is.

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05-28-2012, 10:55 AM
  #308
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I suppose this trade might be somewhat even in value, but it's surely not one the Habs would consider doing.

They aren't going to give up the best piece they got in the Halak deal, and someone who looks like he will be a great 3rd line center if not even a 20 goal 50 point guy to upgrade by a couple inches and get a couple years younger.

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05-28-2012, 11:49 AM
  #309
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Both teams are saying a polite "No."

So that means its close in value..and each team wants an overpayment for their star / stars

I'd do this if Kesler really wanted out of Vancouver...
Mtl could use a guy like Kesler too.

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05-28-2012, 11:58 AM
  #310
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I really like Pleks. But there is no chance I would ever consider moving Kesler for this - and not just this, but dozens of proposals floated around here. I pretty much wouldn't move Kesler unless a better player is coming back. And imo there are few better players at the position then Kesler. But I like Like Pleks and Eller, and hope he keeps improving for the Habs, and I'm glad both teams are happy with what they have.

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05-28-2012, 11:59 AM
  #311
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I like Kesler but not sure i'd be willing to part with both Plekanec and Eller

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05-28-2012, 02:13 PM
  #312
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Kesler doesn't "want out". If he did, sure, maybe, possibly, but we had a thread set up with a "Value of: Kesler" title a short time ago, and most of the offers beat this one. One, from a Habs fan, was Patch and Plekanec I believe. Whether or not that was fair is irrelevant, since he's not moving, but tbh, I don't have a lot of interest in Eller myself.

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05-28-2012, 02:33 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
Vancouver fans really believe that kesler draws a return similar to a john tavares or a johnathan huberdeau? Seems very unrealistic imo.
Potential (Huberdeau in this instance) is always supremely overvalued on these boards. Will Huberdeau make the NHL? Almost absolutely. Will he be an impact player for years? I still say a solid yes and would put money on it. Will he do that immeadiately? Less certain.

As for Tavares...yeah, silly, but Tavares is miles ahead of Huberdeau interms of value.

[QUOTE=BeersHockey;50238021]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoTeamDom View Post

You could maybe get something like at the deadline from a team that thinks it is one piece away, but not at the draft. From what I saw from Schenn, I wouldn't trade him straight up for Kesler if I was Philly. Plus Henrique is pretty much untouchable based on how GMLL holds onto his younger players.
There is a reason Schenn, Simmonds and a pick got Richards. To go with my above statement, Schenn has shown more and more improvement, so his value has gone up as a prospect, and it's a forgone conclusion that he will impacting Philidelphia's roster sooner rather then later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jigsaw99 View Post
Because he is a coach who plays favorites with his players. Those who hate him eveuntally gets runned out by him. (Mitchell, Hodgson, Shirokov, Grabner, O'brien).
And Linden and Naslund (not "run out of town" but definately made their decisions to leave the team, at least in part, due to AV).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Considering goal scoring has dropped off league wide, maybe it's not so much the player. Henrik was the leading scorer in the Western conference this season afterall and 4th overall the year before.
OWNED. well done.
Quoted because I agree. You left out the part where Naslund "peaked" at 29, had a concussion as a result of a crap play, one of his best friends and linemates (who, hate him all you'd like, was very instrumental in Naslund's play and chemistry) do something insanely stupid and nearly end his career, and got stuck on our second line with Raymond (greenhorned rookie) and perennial superstars like Taylor Pyatt, Steve Bernier and Byron freaking Ritchie with Morrison being injured, the Sedin's emerging, and Kesler and Burrows not yet emerging as offensive talents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismancuso97 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
kesler to long island for 4th overall, 33rd overall (there is no way the devils keep their first round pick this season)

if you are implying that all selke winners are divers where do you rank datsyuk on your scale?
Never said thar selkie winners are divers....and by the way Datsyuk has won a cup...If im the Canucks i get rid of Kessler so fast. Hes the reason they lost the first round. All the diving and drawi.g penalty attempts started with Kessler the guy is a horrible leader.
Winning the cup means you don't dive, even though all Selke winners are divers and cry babies compared to real men that don't do what's needed defensively? Your thoughts seem very disjointed between posts.

I'm guessing you didn't watch the first round of the Canucks if you put all the blame on Kesler, our entire team, minus our goaltenders, are to blame. Thats management, coaching, individual players (including Kesler, but by no means limited to him), team doctors, even the fans (the silence in Rogers Arena for game two...wow...) were all at fault. If we had succeeded in winning over the Kings, would Kesler's good name still be intact in your mind though?

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05-28-2012, 02:40 PM
  #314
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So... Kesler, Sedin, and Sedin would not be enough to get Tavares?

lolz

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05-28-2012, 02:42 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Kesler doesn't "want out". If he did, sure, maybe, possibly, but we had a thread set up with a "Value of: Kesler" title a short time ago, and most of the offers beat this one. One, from a Habs fan, was Patch and Plekanec I believe. Whether or not that was fair is irrelevant, since he's not moving, but tbh, I don't have a lot of interest in Eller myself.

There is no way in this universe that it would cost Patches AND Pleks to get Kesler. No real self respecting Hab fan with half a brain would offer that. Heck I would not do Patches straight up for Kesler.

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05-28-2012, 04:22 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
Kessler is better right. How much better. And exactly at what. Check their stats.

2003-04 28 2 3 5 16
2005-06 82 10 13 23 79
2006-07 48 6 10 16 40
2007-08 80 21 16 37 79
2008-09 82 26 33 59 61
2009-10 82 25 50 75 104
2010-11 82 41 32 73 66
2011-12 77 22 27 49 56
Totals 561 153 184 337 501



2003-04 2 0 0 0 0
2005-06 67 9 20 29 32
2006-07 81 20 27 47 36
2007-08 81 29 40 69 42
2008-09 80 20 19 39 54
2009-10 82 25 45 70 50
2010-11 77 22 35 57 60
2011-12 81 17 35 52 56
Career 551 142 221 363 330

I didn't list names or teams. Just guess who is who. Stats wise, there isn't much difference. If you go beyond the stats, then what is it exactly that Kessler brings that is so much better than Plekanec. Keep in mind that Plekanec's never had the benefit of the Sedins on his teams. He doesn't get to play with them on the PP or when his team is desperate for goals. His opponents don't send out their second best defensive pair and second line against him. Aside from this year, he was the best forward on the Habs and the coverage from his oponents was their best line, and their best defensive pairing.

To me this looks more like a one for one deal. And I don't think any team gets better from this trade, just a little different.

I don't see the Canucks doing this unless Kessler absolutely wants out and they can't get any better which would be very likely if he wanted out. Chances are they'd get a two or three for one, but none better than Plekanec. Plekanec is a softer player than Kessler, and I don't think the Canucks are looking to get softer on their top two lines.
Kesler has been a constant contender the last few years for the selke and has won it.

Plekanec is a good defender himself but no where near as good as Kesler.

They are also not comparable offensively. Obviously career wise they will be because Kesler was stuck on the 3rd line for half his career because He was not going to displace Henrik Sedin or Brendan Morrison. Back then the Canucks had arguably the best 1st line in the league so he wasn't getting playing time either.

It wasn't until the 08/09 season he became our 2nd line center without having to fill in for an injury. What do u know, thats the same season his offensive game took off.

Comparing them from 08/09 til now, its quite clear Kesler is the better offensive player. Please don't use the top defenders argument because Kesler was facing them just as much as the Sedins were. Not to mention Kesler was on the ice mostly when the other teams top line was on the ice. I don't know if its the same for Pleks where he played againstthe top players of other team but if he didn't that more than enough makes up for and exceeds not playing against the top defenders all the time

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Old
05-28-2012, 04:29 PM
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
Kessler is better right. How much better. And exactly at what. Check their stats.

2003-04 28 2 3 5 16
2005-06 82 10 13 23 79
2006-07 48 6 10 16 40
2007-08 80 21 16 37 79
2008-09 82 26 33 59 61
2009-10 82 25 50 75 104
2010-11 82 41 32 73 66
2011-12 77 22 27 49 56
Totals 561 153 184 337 501



2003-04 2 0 0 0 0
2005-06 67 9 20 29 32
2006-07 81 20 27 47 36
2007-08 81 29 40 69 42
2008-09 80 20 19 39 54
2009-10 82 25 45 70 50
2010-11 77 22 35 57 60
2011-12 81 17 35 52 56
Career 551 142 221 363 330

I didn't list names or teams. Just guess who is who. Stats wise, there isn't much difference. If you go beyond the stats, then what is it exactly that Kessler brings that is so much better than Plekanec. Keep in mind that Plekanec's never had the benefit of the Sedins on his teams. He doesn't get to play with them on the PP or when his team is desperate for goals. His opponents don't send out their second best defensive pair and second line against him. Aside from this year, he was the best forward on the Habs and the coverage from his oponents was their best line, and their best defensive pairing.

To me this looks more like a one for one deal. And I don't think any team gets better from this trade, just a little different.

I don't see the Canucks doing this unless Kessler absolutely wants out and they can't get any better which would be very likely if he wanted out. Chances are they'd get a two or three for one, but none better than Plekanec. Plekanec is a softer player than Kessler, and I don't think the Canucks are looking to get softer on their top two lines.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Nice Job Madhabber!!


I can agree that Kesler is a bit better offensively then Plecky however Plecky is much better defensively than Kessler.

I always thought both Kessler and Plecky were very comparable players. The diffrences being minor in each and the impact to their team of identical importance.

Would I trade Plecky for Kessler 1 for 1... yeah I would but for Plecky and Eller, not gonna happen.

As Madhabber has stated, the stats are not that far off between the 2 players... Kessler is simply riding on his 41 goal season of 2010-11 to make him look more sexy as a player.

Give Plecky two regular linemates instead of playing musical chairs and his numbers should improve.

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05-28-2012, 04:41 PM
  #318
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The "rumours" you have heard are false.

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05-28-2012, 04:52 PM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahleezer View Post
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Nice Job Madhabber!!


I can agree that Kesler is a bit better offensively then Plecky however Plecky is much better defensively than Kessler.

I always thought both Kessler and Plecky were very comparable players. The diffrences being minor in each and the impact to their team of identical importance.

Would I trade Plecky for Kessler 1 for 1... yeah I would but for Plecky and Eller, not gonna happen.

As Madhabber has stated, the stats are not that far off between the 2 players... Kessler is simply riding on his 41 goal season of 2010-11 to make him look more sexy as a player.

Give Plecky two regular linemates instead of playing musical chairs and his numbers should improve.
Hard to take your opinion seriously when you misspell his name.

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05-28-2012, 04:58 PM
  #320
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If the Habs want Kesler, why don't they just sign Stoll?

Kesler is not bilingual, you know.

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05-28-2012, 04:58 PM
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Charming View Post
Hard to take your opinion seriously when you misspell his name.
I assume he's on a phone. My iphone autocorrects kesler to kessler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
If the Habs want Kesler, why don't they just sign Stoll?

Kesler is not bilingual, you know.
This would make sense if the majority of the habs were billingual. Stoll speaks french? Didn't even know and don't care.

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05-28-2012, 05:05 PM
  #322
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Oh heart be still; if vancouver could somehow arrange to lose both Lou and Kesler I mght find a way to root for the team again!

Alas Lou's trade dmand now being public his value goes down even further and the prospect of keeping a disgruntled flake goalie is pretty unappealing to me. As for Kesler he is officially damaged goods and his return would be roughly half of what it would have been around the time he scored his monster contract. To get real value for him you would have to deal with a team from near where he's from (Detroit, Chicago, Columbus etc.), at least IMHO.

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05-28-2012, 05:08 PM
  #323
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I was thinking the other day, Eller would be a perfect fit for the 3rd line center spot in Vancouver.

What is he worth on his own MTL fans? Not getting Kesler or Edler without adding something significant ie. Subban or Paciocretty.

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05-28-2012, 05:53 PM
  #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I was thinking the other day, Eller would be a perfect fit for the 3rd line center spot in Vancouver.

What is he worth on his own MTL fans? Not getting Kesler or Edler without adding something significant ie. Subban or Paciocretty.
I wouldn't do subban alone for edler really. Edler is the superior player at the moment but subban is an exciting and has huge potential.

Eller isn't worth a ransom but only big center with upside habs have. I don't see a fit other teams can make for Eller. We'd ask for a young big two-way center with upside in return. Seems pointless.

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05-28-2012, 06:44 PM
  #325
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Not downplaying Kesler, or Plekanec, or anyone who's considered a 2 way player, but if Malkin back checked more consistently you'd see him winning Selkes

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