HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

2 trades to fix the flyers D corp

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-28-2012, 09:55 AM
  #1
SheasRebellion6
Registered User
 
SheasRebellion6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 272
vCash: 500
2 trades to fix the flyers D corp


Luke Schenn
5th overall pick


James Van Riemsdyk
Sergei Bobrovsky
20th overall pick
2nd round pick in 2013


Zach Bogosian
9th overall


Andrej Meszaros
Rights to RFA Marc-Andre Bourdon
5th overall

SheasRebellion6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 09:57 AM
  #2
TorontoTrades
Registered User
 
TorontoTrades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,401
vCash: 500
god no from leafs...

Bob is no better than Reimer so bringing him in is useless

Shenn and 5th overall isn't worth it for JVR even with other picks coming back.

pretty sure Jets fans laugh too.

TorontoTrades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:00 AM
  #3
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 13,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post

Luke Schenn
5th overall pick


James Van Riemsdyk
Sergei Bobrovsky
20th overall pick
2nd round pick in 2013


Zach Bogosian
9th overall


Andrej Meszaros
Rights to RFA Marc-Andre Bourdon
5th overall
(Slight) overpayment for Schenn and (substantial) underpayment for Bogosian, if that makes sense.

I don't think Bob holds any value to Toronto. He's not much better than what they have, in terms of young, inconsistent talent.

JVR + 1st (20) + 2nd for Schenn + 1st (5) is probably close to fair in terms of value, but doesn't make Toronto a better team. They would still lack the top-end center, and would miss the chance to draft one.

On the second deal, I really don't see the benefit (or value) for Winnipeg. They believe Bogo can be a franchise #1 D. While Meszaros is a good player, he doesn't have that upside. The jump from 9 to 5 simply isn't worth that exchange.

I think it would have to be more like Meszaros (or, more likely, Coburn) + 5th for Bogo + 2nd. That would give Winnipeg two top-10 picks.

(This is all working within your framework. I doubt the Flyers can make a play for Bogosian, but if they do, there's really no doubt in my mind it costs Schenn or Couturier +)

Jack de la Hoya is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:06 AM
  #4
SheasRebellion6
Registered User
 
SheasRebellion6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoTrades View Post
god no from leafs...

Bob is no better than Reimer so bringing him in is useless

Shenn and 5th overall isn't worth it for JVR even with other picks coming back.

pretty sure Jets fans laugh too.
Bob would easily beat reimer IMO. He has a great work ethic and has insane speed. Even though his numbers dropped this year he greatly improved his game. His first year could barely play the puck and in his second year he fixed that. If he is given a starting job he will thrive. He is a very studious young goalie and just needs a bigger role IMO.

SheasRebellion6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:09 AM
  #5
SheasRebellion6
Registered User
 
SheasRebellion6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
(Slight) overpayment for Schenn and (substantial) underpayment for Bogosian, if that makes sense.

I don't think Bob holds any value to Toronto. He's not much better than what they have, in terms of young, inconsistent talent.

JVR + 1st (20) + 2nd for Schenn + 1st (5) is probably close to fair in terms of value, but doesn't make Toronto a better team. They would still lack the top-end center, and would miss the chance to draft one.

On the second deal, I really don't see the benefit (or value) for Winnipeg. They believe Bogo can be a franchise #1 D. While Meszaros is a good player, he doesn't have that upside. The jump from 9 to 5 simply isn't worth that exchange.

I think it would have to be more like Meszaros (or, more likely, Coburn) + 5th for Bogo + 2nd. That would give Winnipeg two top-10 picks.

(This is all working within your framework. I doubt the Flyers can make a play for Bogosian, but if they do, there's really no doubt in my mind it costs Schenn or Couturier +)
If they move up to # 5 they can get a great player Mez is a solid d-man. Bourdon has a lot of potential. If matt read was added woul that get it done.

SheasRebellion6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:11 AM
  #6
Human
cynic
 
Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bandwagon
Posts: 4,863
vCash: 500
if you take out that 9th pick coming from the Jets, they still wouldn't do it. the difference between Bogosian and Meszaros is greater than that 5th pick and the rights for MAB, imo.

on the other hand the first trade is more balanced, but the Leafs would love a center coming back their way.

Human is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:11 AM
  #7
Jray42
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 3,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post
Bob would easily beat reimer IMO. He has a great work ethic and has insane speed. Even though his numbers dropped this year he greatly improved his game. His first year could barely play the puck and in his second year he fixed that. If he is given a starting job he will thrive. He is a very studious young goalie and has great speed.
I think the thing with Bob is the fact that when he first came into the league, no one knew who he was, and he took that and his insane speed/athleticism in his favor. I think last year everyone had the book on him, and they exploited his weakness(es), glove high/blocker high. I think he can improve his ability to defend the upper portion of the net, but to be successful he's going to need to adjust, which I still think he can be a capable starting goalie in this league. He's definitely very committed, and is really like the opposite of Bryzgalov. He has so much raw talent it's ridiculous.

Jray42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:16 AM
  #8
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 13,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post
If they move up to # 5 they can get a great player Mez is a solid d-man. Bourdon has a lot of potential. If matt read was added woul that get it done.
I doubt it.

Think about it: If we assume that Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Grigorenko, and Forsberg go 1-4 (Murray could be in there too), that leaves Murray, Dumba, TT, Trouba, and Reinhart in some order 5-9. It is possible one of the top 4 take a defenseman and one of the forwards drop, but I think most mocks have those players going 1-9 in some order.

Downgrading from Bogo to Mez is not worth having the "top" pick of the second tier of players (e.g., the difference between 9 and 5).

Rather than argue, let me just ask, why do you think Winnipeg would do that? They are far from a lock to get a "great" player at 5. The chance, you could reasonably argue, is better than at 9, but not worth trading what they already have.

Again, there needs to be some affirmative reason for the Jets to make that move. The only one I can think of is to get two top-9 picks, while building a defensive corps around Enstrom (resigned), Buff, Meszaros, Stuart, etc. With one of those picks, probably 5, you hope one of the top forwards slips, and with the other, you take whichever defensive prospect is left.

I doubt many Jets fans would love that move, but at least there's some logic. The really isn't a case to the Mez + 5 for Bogo + 9 move.

Jack de la Hoya is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:18 AM
  #9
Hatrick Marleau
Nikolay GOALdobin
 
Hatrick Marleau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: With JR
Posts: 4,308
vCash: 500
You guys can have Douglas Murray or Dan Boyle from SJ.

Hatrick Marleau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:20 AM
  #10
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 13,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
You guys can have Douglas Murray or Dan Boyle from SJ.
No quite the same thing as Bogosian and Schenn, though. Maybe if Dan Boyle steps into a time machine and rolls back the clock to 2002. Murray is a good supporting player, but not the top-pairing, two-way defenseman that the OP is looking for in Bogosian.

Jack de la Hoya is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:25 AM
  #11
Riptide
Moderator
 
Riptide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yukon
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post
If they move up to # 5 they can get a great player Mez is a solid d-man. Bourdon has a lot of potential. If matt read was added woul that get it done.
Yes but whomever they draft (say it's a D), if they think Bogo's potential is a #1D, then why move him only to draft another D who they hope will turn into a top pairing D? Bogo doesn't get moved unless Schenn or Couturier comes back with the #5.

Riptide is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:28 AM
  #12
SheasRebellion6
Registered User
 
SheasRebellion6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Yes but whomever they draft (say it's a D), if they think Bogo's potential is a #1D, then why move him only to draft another D? Bogo doesn't get moved unless Schenn or Couturier comes back with the #5.
Bogo and 9th overall for Mez, Read, MAB, and 5th overall doesn't get it done? Because of what they are getting in addition to the pick.

SheasRebellion6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:35 AM
  #13
sully1410
Registered User
 
sully1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Turner Valley, Alta.
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,165
vCash: 500
Bogo is not for Sale.

The Jets are in the process of building a successful team, and Bogosian is a huge part of that. Trading him for picks would be stupid.

There's no garuntee that Enstrom resigns. Bogo(and Kane) are the franchise players of the future.

To acquire either of those players, it'd have to be a huge overpayment.

sully1410 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:38 AM
  #14
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 13,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post
Bogo and 9th overall for Mez, Read, MAB, and 5th overall doesn't get it done? Because of what they are getting in addition to the pick.
Why would they do it? How does it make them a better team to take away a first pairing defenseman to add a second pairing defensman, (valuable) third-line winger, and a slightly better prospect?

MAB's rights aren't worth much--optimistically, he's a reliable third pairing NHL defenseman.

Look at what is left:

EDIT: I'm a moron.


Last edited by Jack de la Hoya: 05-28-2012 at 11:01 AM.
Jack de la Hoya is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:40 AM
  #15
trebendan
Registered User
 
trebendan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 600
vCash: 500
From a Jets perspective, I agree that Bogosian is not for sale. However, Byfuglien could be made available, I'd think.

trebendan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:49 AM
  #16
SheasRebellion6
Registered User
 
SheasRebellion6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 272
vCash: 500
Just an idea.

SheasRebellion6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 10:56 AM
  #17
SheasRebellion6
Registered User
 
SheasRebellion6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Why would they do it? How does it make them a better team to take away a first pairing defenseman to add a second pairing defensman, (valuable) third-line winger, and a slightly better prospect?

MAB's rights aren't worth much--optimistically, he's a reliable third pairing NHL defenseman.

Look at what is left:

Read + 9th might get you to 5th, but that leaves Mez-Bogo as an even swap.
The 5th is going to WPG.

SheasRebellion6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 11:00 AM
  #18
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 13,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post
Just an idea.
And it isn't a bad one--nor completely new. The Flyers need a young, #1D potential, preferably RH. Bogosian hits all the marks.

On the other hand, the Flyers aren't giving up the kinds of assets (the ones you really hate to give up) that it would take to get that kind of player. While I still think JVR could turn into a very good player there are real and legitimate questions to be asked about his inconsistency. To get Bogosian, the Flyers would have to be willing to part with a young asset that fits the Jets needs--Schenn or Couturier.

The double-trade also complicates matters, particularly since it isn't clear TML would do the first trade, which is a prerequisite for the second.

If you soften your expectations, and assume JVR goes for L. Schenn + 2nd, it becomes even hard to construct a trade for Bogosian that doesn't include B. Schenn or Couturier. JVR-for-Bogo was floated around here in the past, but 1) it doesn't fit Winnipeg's needs, 2) Bogosian progressed significantly this year, while JVR struggled with injuries.

Maybe something like Meszaros + Voracek + 2012 1st for Bogosian + 2012 2nd--at least that gives Winnipeg a young, high-end asset at a position of need (RW), but I sort of doubt they'd go for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post
The 5th is going to WPG.
Yeah, I jumbled that up a bit. Hopefully it is clearer above.

Jack de la Hoya is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 11:01 AM
  #19
SIDGENO8771
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post

Luke Schenn
5th overall pick


James Van Riemsdyk
Sergei Bobrovsky
20th overall pick
2nd round pick in 2013


Zach Bogosian
9th overall


Andrej Meszaros
Rights to RFA Marc-Andre Bourdon
5th overall
For Schenn + 5th, Philly would have to send Couturier + Schenn + 2012 1st

SIDGENO8771 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 11:02 AM
  #20
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 31,941
vCash: 500
You can probably have Schenn, but not the 5th overall pick.

Stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 11:06 AM
  #21
jmeehan1985
Registered User
 
jmeehan1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 429
vCash: 500
If we give you Boychuk what type of return could you give the Bruins. We love JVR so lets package around Boychuk.

jmeehan1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 11:06 AM
  #22
birddog*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post
Bob would easily beat reimer IMO. He has a great work ethic and has insane speed. Even though his numbers dropped this year he greatly improved his game. His first year could barely play the puck and in his second year he fixed that. If he is given a starting job he will thrive. He is a very studious young goalie and just needs a bigger role IMO.
No Bob wouldn't. And the 5th overall is worth more than anything in that deal.

birddog* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 11:07 AM
  #23
Grind
Stomacheache AllStar
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 4,160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post
Just an idea.
as usual. no team wants to trade their core young guys, but of course wants another teams core young guys.

Honestly we should all look at the history of young "future franchise" or top line, top pairing, players being traded.

It rarely happens. and when it does, it's usually because most people didn't see that young player as a "future franchise" player at the time.

You want an under 25 top pairing d man? Sell the farm. It's the same as asking for an under 23 60pt + player. It'll cost. A lot. And no amount of quantity will make up for the lack of quality that's invariably going to be proposed.

The only time you see these trades made is when the team selling off the young guy, has depth at his position in spades (ie got lucky and has a lot of their depth picks/pickups develop into good players). The jets have no depth at any position, we can barely ice a top 6, have no LHD, and have no top pairing d prospects and one top line offensive prospect (scheifele...HOPEFULLY).

If that was what your team had, what would you want for one of your 2 under 24 future stars? It'd be a lot.

Grind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 11:21 AM
  #24
LeafsYoungGuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Smith Falls, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 631
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post

Luke Schenn
5th overall pick


James Van Riemsdyk
Sergei Bobrovsky
20th overall pick
2nd round pick in 2013


Zach Bogosian
9th overall


Andrej Meszaros
Rights to RFA Marc-Andre Bourdon
5th overall
Counter proposal

TOR
B.Schenn
20th
2nd 2013

PHI
Franson
5th

LeafsYoungGuns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-28-2012, 11:21 AM
  #25
SheasRebellion6
Registered User
 
SheasRebellion6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 272
vCash: 500
Read, JVR, MAB, 20th ovr, 2nd rounder 2013 for Schenn and 5th ovr.

MEZ and 5th ovr for Bogo

*NEW*

TBL
BOB
1st 2013

PHI
10th ovr

SheasRebellion6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.