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The Illusion of Depth

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Old
05-28-2012, 12:39 PM
  #26
Thirty One
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
We have defensive depth, we lack offensive depth.

Not many teams can lose 1/3 of their defense and still compete.

On the other hand, this team has an abundance of fourth line players pretending to be third liners and a serious lack of scoring wingers.
And two injuries away from Stu Bickel lining up on RW

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
IMHo Fedotenko is a 4th liner. Boyle is a 4th liner. Prust is a 4th liner. Rupp is a 4th liner. Mitchell is a 4th liner

Thats 4 4th liners....usually 2 of them are playing at lines higher than they should be.
That's five. Even more to the point.

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05-28-2012, 12:56 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
We have defensive depth, we lack offensive depth.

Not many teams can lose 1/3 of their defense and still compete.
Agreed, some people forget that the team was missing Sauer and Staal for a large part of the season and still was solid in the back end.

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Old
05-28-2012, 02:24 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
At various points this season, especially on this board, I've seen the Rangers depth be commended time and time again. Personally, I had a problem with it then and I still have a problem with it, considering lack of depth is what eventually ended this team's run.

The defense, while the least of this team's problems, still lacks considerable depth. McDonagh, Staal, and Girardi are as solid as they come. Del Zotto is a wildcard as Im not completely sold on his mental toughness. The third pairing was rescued by Anton Stralman, but still needed to choose between Bickel and Eminger. Thats not depth - its top heavy, and the opposite of depth.

On offense, its far, far worse. This is a team that went 19 straight playoff games without scoring more than 3 goals. It was only a matter of time before their offensive shortcomings (and lack of depth) became exposed. Its almost poetic justice that it came at the hands of a team that rolled 4 lines, and possessed a 4th line capable of scoring big and timely goals. Could anyone imagine the Prust - Mitchell - Rupp combo contributing in such a manner? Or even the 3rd line? Or even the second line at times?

The first step is admitting this team has a depth problem, which may be difficult for several people. The second step is figuring out what can be done about it.
Wow, the truth shall set us realistic Ranger's fans free! Well done pal.
There is a propensity on this forum to
1) Overrate our prospects
2) Overrate the players we have on
our present roster.

If it wasn't obvious before or during the season(and it wasn't as I had countless battles with many fans who post here about Maryanne Gaborik, Michael Del Zaster, Brad Dubinsky and others), it should be crystal clear now after about as weak, lackluster and lackadaisical performance by a team in going 10-10 in their trip to the ECF.

That being said, what the hell do we do about it. Our crackerjack general manager will be entering his 12th year at the helm(mind boggling as it may seem) and we have developed "One Lousy Superstar" (Hank) under his reign and one possible superstar to be(McDonagh) in a good trade that he made. Have we drafted better the past 5+ years? Yes.
Are we doing better developing young talent? Yes.

However, we still have many holes to fill up front in order to make this team bigger, tougher, grittier with more offensive skill and much tougher to play against in the playoffs.

Now it's up to the senile old man Savior to get off his ass and figure it all out while the Devils(our main rival who didn't make the playoffs last year) go for their 4th Stanley Cup in 17 years while we wallow in failure.

Kind of brings out the hostilities in you, don't it??

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Old
05-28-2012, 02:39 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Wow, the truth shall set us realistic Ranger's fans free! Well done pal.
There is a propensity on this forum to
1) Overrate our prospects
2) Overrate the players we have on
our present roster.

If it wasn't obvious before or during the season(and it wasn't as I had countless battles with many fans who post here about Maryanne Gaborik, Michael Del Zaster, Brad Dubinsky and others), it should be crystal clear now after about as weak, lackluster and lackadaisical performance by a team in going 10-10 in their trip to the ECF.

That being said, what the hell do we do about it. Our crackerjack general manager will be entering his 12th year at the helm(mind boggling as it may seem) and we have developed "One Lousy Superstar" (Hank) under his reign and one possible superstar to be(McDonagh) in a good trade that he made. Have we drafted better the past 5+ years? Yes.
Are we doing better developing young talent? Yes.

However, we still have many holes to fill up front in order to make this team bigger, tougher, grittier with more offensive skill and much tougher to play against in the playoffs.

Now it's up to the senile old man Savior to get off his ass and figure it all out while the Devils(our main rival who didn't make the playoffs last year) go for their 4th Stanley Cup in 17 years while we wallow in failure.

Kind of brings out the hostilities in you, don't it??
Do me a favor - dont take my point and distort it to this extreme. Things are on the up and up with this organization. They certainly need to make some tweaks to shift players down on the roster that are playing in positions where they simply cant succeed.

But dont make it seem like this ship is still lost and adrift, because its not. Theres a lot to look forward to.

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Old
05-28-2012, 02:42 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Do me a favor - dont take my point and distort it to this extreme. Things are on the up and up with this organization. They certainly need to make some tweaks to shift players down on the roster that are playing in positions where they simply cant succeed.

But dont make it seem like this ship is still lost and adrift, because its not. Theres a lot to look forward to.
Lol; I agree with you. I just can't help myself sometimes.
Here's to next season, I can't wait!

Have a wonderful Memorial day holiday.

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Old
05-28-2012, 02:52 PM
  #31
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when John Mitchell is on your 2nd pp unit,your depth sucks

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Old
05-28-2012, 04:11 PM
  #32
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at the beginning of the season nobody was thinking we would be losing michael sauer for the year, and definitely not for good. we were projecting something along the lines of:

staal-giradi
mcdonagh-sauer
mdz-eminger/stralman/woywitka

that IS depth! mcdonagh and sauer were rising stars in the organization, in fact last year i thought sauer was actually the better player than mcdonagh. staal and girardi was regarded around the league as one of the best shutdown pairings in the league. mdz was a young guy who showed he has a huge upside if he can get his game together paired with solid 3rd pairing guys like eminger or stralman.

picture that group of 8 guys, plus the solid AHL guys like bickel and bell (we thought bickel would be better at the beginning of the year i'm sure), PLUS the youth in erixon and mcilrath coming up by the next year.

if sauer stays healthy i truly think we're looking at this team still playing hockey. i think we're looking at a team that can afford to trade a top prospect like del zotto, mcilrath, or erixon for a big offensive guy. unfortunately, sauer suffering that career threatening concussion could be what absolutely ruined our defensive depth.

next year however there WILL be depth! staal, girardi, mcdonagh, mdz and stralman (if he's back) are all solid guys, plus the addition of either erixon or mcilrath. we have to remember that bickel was a rookie. we have to also take into consideration there will likely be a free agent pickup (schultz hopefully).

the illusion created by rangers fans that there's any sort of offensive depth here however is a complete joke. we couldn't even put out 4 solid lines, and people are talking about what we have in CT, it's a joke. there's a LOT of tweener guys in the organization..christian thomas, andrew yogan, etc etc who are probably never going to scratch the rangers lineup but have a lot of talent. we DO have jt miller who i think is a future top 6 guy. we have shane mccolgan who in a few years could very possibly turn into a hagelin-type player with possibly even more defensive talent. this organization REALLY needs a good draft and a few off-season moves to bring in some guys though.

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Old
05-28-2012, 04:45 PM
  #33
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Problem is there is no way to add another "elite" player via free agency.

There's going to be a lockout. The cap is going down when ever the lockout ends.

Rangers can't afford to ship out the assets to get Nash or Ryan.

The answer is to acquire a guy like David Jones to play with Kreider and Stepan on the second line.

And maybe pick up a guy like Stoll or Gaustad for the 4th line.

If Prust's demands are too high, he's gone.

While Hagelin isn't "ideal" as a top line winger, he showed solid chemistry with Richards and Gaborik.

Priority #1 needs to be getting Schultz. He's the real deal and he's exactly what we need to add to the defense corp. His game and brain are NHL ready. He needs to get a little stronger. If we need to buy him some time in Hartford we can afford it to him. Re-sign Stralman cheap as a stop gap.

Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik
Kreider-Stepan-Jones
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
Boyle, Gaustad/Stoll, Prust, Rupp, Mitchell

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal
Del Zotto, Schultz, Sauer?, Stralman, Bickel, Eminger

We could target a veteran right-handed defenseman on the cheap, as well.

That gives you pretty good depth.

Every team in the league is going to have to face facts that they won't be able to load up the top six with only "ideal" guys. They're all going to need some guys who are "adequate". The cap is going down whether we want it to or not.

RangerBoy had been warning us for months.

Our organizational depth IS solid.

Its laughable that some continue to deny it because some of that is prospects. However those prospects continue to earn their way onto the roster. And this roster just won the toughest division in hockey, won the Conference regular season, and got to the Conference final. Not to mention finished with the most ROW in the league.

The future is bright.

But, yes, they need some depth on the roster in the immediate. Its do-able. But it won't be via Nash, Parise, Ryan, Iginla, or any of those names.

I have faith in Gorton and Clark. With them Sather has been making smart decisions.

I just want the finals to end already so the Rangers can get going on what they need to get done this summer.

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Old
05-28-2012, 04:53 PM
  #34
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The reality is you can never have enough depth. Certainly a play off run like we just had points that out even more.

Hags and Krieder were being counted on to deliver way more than they should have.

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05-28-2012, 04:55 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
The reality is you can never have enough depth. Certainly a play off run like we just had points that out even more.

Hags and Krieder were being counted on to deliver way more than they should have.
Agree. You can never have enough depth.

Its do-able. We just shouldn't expect any of the big names.

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Old
05-28-2012, 05:11 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
The reality is you can never have enough depth. Certainly a play off run like we just had points that out even more.

Hags and Krieder were being counted on to deliver way more than they should have.
Yes and no. Depends on what you consider depth. Is depth just NHL caliber players? Because we seem to be doing OK there. Its time you really need to look at those players and what roles they are capable of.

I agree that its very unlikely this team goes after a Parise, Nash, Ryan, etc. But the reality is thats what they need - a high-end scoring threat.

David Jones? Give me a break - thats more of the same.

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05-28-2012, 06:45 PM
  #37
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David Jones would not be more of the same.

Where on the roster is the 6-3, 220 physical power forward that can score 20+ goals per season? I don't see him.

He had two independent fluke injuries. I wouldn't be too concerned about them now. He could provide this team a lot of good.

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Old
05-28-2012, 08:53 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers4Life74 View Post
when John Mitchell is on your 2nd pp unit,your depth sucks
This sums up this thread.

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Old
05-28-2012, 09:04 PM
  #39
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We aren't going to be able to add a 30-40 goal scorer most likely, and I'm not exactly sure that is what we need. I'd rather add a couple of 20 goal scorers so that we have a more balanced offense. That way we have Richards, Gaborik, Callahan, Kreider, Free Agent #1, Free Agent #2 all scoring above 20 goals plus Stepan, AA, Hags contributing around 15 goals each. Also, instead of 2 free agents you could just sign one and hope that Dubi returns to 20 goal form.

top 6: Richards, Gaborik, Kreider, Cally, Dubi, FA
3rd line: Stepan, AA, Hagelin

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05-28-2012, 09:07 PM
  #40
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The only depth people have mentioned is on defense, which we do have. They were just injured.

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05-28-2012, 09:38 PM
  #41
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Id really love to add Jones, Stoll, and a veteran stay-at-home righ-handed defenseman to play with Del Zotto.

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05-28-2012, 09:59 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers4Life74 View Post
when John Mitchell is on your 2nd pp unit,your depth sucks
lol thats true we may have a better chance having biron out there on the 2nd unit

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Old
05-29-2012, 12:18 AM
  #43
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Not many righty shooting Dmen out there. Sami Salo but he's OLD and probably doesn't want to leave Vancouver, Adrian Aucoin, Milan Jurcina.

I'd like Aucoin, always liked his game.

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05-29-2012, 12:29 AM
  #44
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Do not Jones at the 4 mil per long term deal he'll request.

Would just rather sign Ryan Smyth for 1 yr at 3 mil to play on 3rd line. He can mentor Kreider to become a professional player.

Would also look into trading for Mason Raymond. It seems like he may not even be qualified next year. Good reclamation project, if not, stick on 4th line. His speed alone will help.

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Old
05-29-2012, 10:21 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
David Jones would not be more of the same.

Where on the roster is the 6-3, 220 physical power forward that can score 20+ goals per season? I don't see him.

He had two independent fluke injuries. I wouldn't be too concerned about them now. He could provide this team a lot of good.
If you're so gung-ho about signing David Jones, why not just give Brandon Dubinsky another chance?

In either situation, you're taking a borderline top 6 player who is going to be making too much money and hoping he can consistently score. Like I said, more of the same.

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Old
05-29-2012, 10:42 AM
  #46
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Not many righty shooting Dmen out there. Sami Salo but he's OLD and probably doesn't want to leave Vancouver, Adrian Aucoin, Milan Jurcina.

I'd like Aucoin, always liked his game.
Sarich and Wideman are the two UFAs that stand out to me... both being righty D-men.

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05-29-2012, 11:08 AM
  #47
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At First I was thinking here we go again with this lack of depth garbage. But when reading the thread title again, I think it is a great point.

When you look at our Depth, and the fact that it right now is relying heavily on our young players improving each year, and reaching their potential, you can in fact say the depth is based on an illusion since we are unsure how our players will fully develope.

If our young forwards like Stepan, Kreider, Anisimov, and Hagelin, don't improve as they gather more experience then we will not have depth. The Upside though if they do improve each year, and reach their potential, this will be one of the deepest teams in the NHL for a long time.

The question is, as a Ranger fan are you wiling to wait to give our young players a chance to grow? Or do you want to try and trade them now while their stock is high, and we can probably get some old vets to fill out our depth?

Personally I'll take the first option any day, since we have witnessed first hand how disastrous option 2 could be, and I like the idea of allowing players to develop, as well as give them time to gel as a team.

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05-29-2012, 12:02 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by jskramer83 View Post
At First I was thinking here we go again with this lack of depth garbage. But when reading the thread title again, I think it is a great point.

When you look at our Depth, and the fact that it right now is relying heavily on our young players improving each year, and reaching their potential, you can in fact say the depth is based on an illusion since we are unsure how our players will fully develope.

If our young forwards like Stepan, Kreider, Anisimov, and Hagelin, don't improve as they gather more experience then we will not have depth. The Upside though if they do improve each year, and reach their potential, this will be one of the deepest teams in the NHL for a long time.

The question is, as a Ranger fan are you wiling to wait to give our young players a chance to grow? Or do you want to try and trade them now while their stock is high, and we can probably get some old vets to fill out our depth?

Personally I'll take the first option any day, since we have witnessed first hand how disastrous option 2 could be, and I like the idea of allowing players to develop, as well as give them time to gel as a team.
I like virtually all of our young players that have actually played an NHL game. My major issue is that none of them are top-end scorers, nor do they project to be. Consider that you've got another crop of forwards ready to come in over the next couple of years that aren't top end scorers either, and where does that leave us? With an even bigger log-jam in the bottom 9 forwards.

The Rangers need another sniper, so somethings gotta give sooner or later.

Signing even more bottom 9 guys is probably the last thing this team should do.

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05-29-2012, 12:27 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I like virtually all of our young players that have actually played an NHL game. My major issue is that none of them are top-end scorers, nor do they project to be. Consider that you've got another crop of forwards ready to come in over the next couple of years that aren't top end scorers either, and where does that leave us? With an even bigger log-jam in the bottom 9 forwards.

The Rangers need another sniper, so somethings gotta give sooner or later.

Signing even more bottom 9 guys is probably the last thing this team should do.
BRB, I usually agree with all your posts, including the above, but I think Kreider will be a top end scorer (if you consider > 30 goals as top end).

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05-29-2012, 12:31 PM
  #50
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Until the time that Byle and Prust are on the 4th line and get 4th line minutes, the Rangers are not deep. Time to replace Feds with a young, fast crasher to add to that line, and they need to fill out the 3rd line. There is lots of work to do before they are a cup-worthy team.

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