**** you boivin for you lack-of-professionalism-nepotism.
I’d ask Pierre every day why we had to do things a certain way, kinda have fun with it. But he didn’t mix very well with the team so communication was different. He’s a different person.
Quote:
The message (from the coaching staff) was we need to play as a team with their system. I tried to preach it but the hard part was we didn’t play to guys’ strengths. With Gomez, you don’t expect him to chip it up the boards, you want him to come back and pick it up. If he can’t do that, he can’t be effective.
I think the hard part for us as players is that we had a coaching change, but nothing changed. Gomer was excited: “Now we’re going to play!”That’s what you need, you have a coaching change and you go from the doghouse to a new life. Guys who weren’t in the doghouse say, “I have to prove myself.” That’s why you get a jump and everyone kind of picks up their game. But for whatever reason, Cunney said, “I believe in the system, let’s go with the system.” I like Cunney, I think he’s great. I just don’t know if he got to (call his own shots).
Communication wasn’t Jacques’s strength. He’s a great guy but he’s quiet. You could talk to him but he was rigid in his ways. It would be, “I’ll listen to you but I’m the coach and this is what I’m going to do.” Some guys now, newer coaches, want to hear what you’re thinking. When I went to Nashville, the coaches were talking to me: “What are you thinking? What do you want to do? Do you like playing with this guy or that guy?” There was a lot more communication.
Hal Gill regarding Subban:
I really wanted to play with P.K. The problem was with P.K. is that everyone wanted to fix him. P.K. is P.K. You don’t fix him.
He’s got to learn to focus. He’s so gifted, he just kinda goes and does his thing, that’s what he’s always done. He goes out there – “It’s my turn? I’m going to jump on the ice and be awesome.” Just focus.
Communication wasn’t Jacques’s strength. He’s a great guy but he’s quiet. You could talk to him but he was rigid in his ways. It would be, “I’ll listen to you but I’m the coach and this is what I’m going to do.” Some guys now, newer coaches, want to hear what you’re thinking. When I went to Nashville, the coaches were talking to me: “What are you thinking? What do you want to do? Do you like playing with this guy or that guy?” There was a lot more communication.
Hal Gill regarding Subban:
I really wanted to play with P.K. The problem was with P.K. is that everyone wanted to fix him. P.K. is P.K. You don’t fix him.
He’s got to learn to focus. He’s so gifted, he just kinda goes and does his thing, that’s what he’s always done. He goes out there – “It’s my turn? I’m going to jump on the ice and be awesome.” Just focus.
He said he was quiet and listened but stuck to his own system.
He never said he was a bad coach, merely suggested he left little room for flexibility.
Martin is an old school coach, doesn't mean he's a bad coach.
Martin stuck to his system and did not adapt to the players he had. The lack of a forecheck...the chipping the puck in...all that stuff was Martin. He's not a bad coach, but he was not the right coach for this team yet we have some posters here still acting like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I never said or pretended it was easy, what I am saying is that no goalie can get that type of performance without its D being on pace and giving a lot of help, and they were. You should watch the entire two games and see how many plays the D broke in those two games. The caps were often getting off-shots from their broken plays.
The D stunk, that's why they gave up close to 100 shots in 2 games, they were completely outmatched, but got extremely lucky.
Martin stuck to his system and did not adapt to the players he had. The lack of a forecheck...the chipping the puck in...all that stuff was Martin. He's not a bad coach, but he was not the right coach for this team yet we have some posters here still acting like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I agree with you there. His system was not suited for our players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradale
I don't think any players will say Martin is a bad coach per se.. but you can tell that many players don't necessarily like him.
Lacking of communication and refusing to "listen" or opening up to his players is never good for a team.
He said he was quiet and listened but stuck to his own system.
He never said he was a bad coach, merely suggested he left little room for flexibility.
Martin is an old school coach, doesn't mean he's a bad coach.
Honestly, read it again, and you find that Gill found the nicest way to bash his coach and call him to be past his time. Again, he wasn't an awful coach, far from it. But for some, it sounds like he'd still be the #1 candidate, which makes no sense. So you move on from the ancient regime, and hire....Jacques Martin. Yeah, makes sense.
Honestly, read it again, and you find that Gill found the nicest way to bash his coach and call him to be past his time. Again, he wasn't an awful coach, far from it. But for some, it sounds like he'd still be the #1 candidate, which makes no sense. So you move on from the ancient regime, and hire....Jacques Martin. Yeah, makes sense.
If Martin didn't already have a shot with us, he would be a top candidate, why wouldn't he be? We're going a new direction and we just fired him. Only normal he shouldn't return.
I actually didn't get the impression he was trying to resist bashing Martin. I got the impression he was just going with the flow and more of a "yah now that spacek brings it up, I guess I agree with him" type of way. Maybe it's just me, but I found it a major contrast to how he explained Gauthier and the 15 min off the record conversation.
I don't disagree that habs need new voice or anything like that, but I think Martin did fairly well with our group that was assembled in a summer.
Gill talking about how Martin (or Gauthier controlled Cunneyworth) wouldn't play to the teams strengths gives me hope for Gomez, if not here then elsewhere. His contracts awful but if he could at least play like he did for the Rangers, it would ease the pain a lot. Hopefully if we can't get rid of him, we'll have a coach that actually, you know, uses a player for what he's good at.
You can tell skillzy is trying to be polite here, that's who he is, but if you read between the lines, I think it's safe to assume that Hal Gill feels that PG and JM weren't the best duo.
This is no surprise though, anyone who followed the team could see this a mile away.
AK was saying that the downfall of all this was when the coaching staff started getting fired. But oh wait...what does AK know right? he was just another lazy russian floater....according to RDS anyways...but that was enough to convince 90% of quebec that AK was garbage.
I'll give you morons another example. When you break up with your ex, and 3 months later you go out on dates with other girls and tell them what your last relationship was...what do you say usually? the bad stuff...you never mention the good things that happened but that's only to make yourself look good or to make yourself feel better about yourself. Specially if she dumped you.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!
Spacek is a troll!
If just one person from the organization was willing to come forward with something to contradict what Spacek said, your post (and analogy) might fit better. On the contrary, however, there are apparently rumblings and perhaps even tweets from multiple people from within the dressing room/organization saying Spacek "hit it out of the park". So... on top of the fact that we have a 35 year old veteran dealing with the media here, I don't think anyone is buying the "Spacek is a troll" bit.
Martin stuck to his system and did not adapt to the players he had. The lack of a forecheck...the chipping the puck in...all that stuff was Martin. He's not a bad coach, but he was not the right coach for this team yet we have some posters here still acting like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Quite true. As effective as Martin proved to be at creating a system that minimizes mistakes, he still hasn't proven that he knows what to do with his plan/system once he actually has (as someone else put it) the "horses for courses". I had definitely seen enough of the "percentage hockey" - and perhaps the consequences skilled players have faced for deviating even slightly from that rigid model. Against proficient puck-moving teams it seemed as though the puck was moving toward our goalies well over 50% of any given game.
GM never seemed sufficiently motivated or aware enough to acquire the kind of surrounding cast a system like that has proven to require (see the play/impact of guys like Brown, Parise, Callahan, Richards, Doan, Staal, etc). Coach never seemed to figure out that the players he still ultimately ended up with were capable of more, and enforced strict adherence to HIS way without ever considering how many (including the players) felt they could play.
Glad both are gone, and I have greater faith in the chain of competence from Molson to Bergevin followed by Dudley/Carriere, then Mellanby and Timmins, when it comes to supporting whomever gets selected to coach this team (Hartley, apparently).
Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 05-28-2012 at 07:45 PM.
If Martin didn't already have a shot with us, he would be a top candidate, why wouldn't he be? We're going a new direction and we just fired him. Only normal he shouldn't return.
I actually didn't get the impression he was trying to resist bashing Martin. I got the impression he was just going with the flow and more of a "yah now that spacek brings it up, I guess I agree with him" type of way. Maybe it's just me, but I found it a major contrast to how he explained Gauthier and the 15 min off the record conversation.
I don't disagree that habs need new voice or anything like that, but I think Martin did fairly well with our group that was assembled in a summer.
I liked Martin too, but I don't think he'd be a top candidate for this team had he not been here before. His name might pop up as a possibility, but the obvious direction of this team is to have a more open atmosphere. Instead of one guy making all the decisions (Gauthier, Gainey), there is now a committee (Bergevin, Dudley, Carriere, Mellanby). These guys are younger too, kind of like a "new guard". There's already a difference in the way they communicate publicly. I don't think Martin is what they are looking for.
I liked Martin too, but I don't think he'd be a top candidate for this team had he not been here before. His name might pop up as a possibility, but the obvious direction of this team is to have a more open atmosphere. Instead of one guy making all the decisions (Gauthier, Gainey), there is now a committee (Bergevin, Dudley, Carriere, Mellanby). These guys are younger too, kind of like a "new guard". There's already a difference in the way they communicate publicly. I don't think Martin is what they are looking for.
I don't disagree with you but every coach is deemed as a 'communicator' until they come to montreal. JM was deemed as one, and even visited carey asap when he got hired. However, in the end he had flaws that were exposed in our market. I find it hard to believe any coach would be immune to the criticism. Again, in retrospect, knowing what we know now about JM then yah, maybe he wouldn't be a top candidate, but by same token, before he came, people raved that he was a superior communicator than Carbo and others. If he was never here, he wouldn't have been exposed for being average in that department.
Communication wasn’t Jacques’s strength. He’s a great guy but he’s quiet. You could talk to him but he was rigid in his ways. It would be, “I’ll listen to you but I’m the coach and this is what I’m going to do.” Some guys now, newer coaches, want to hear what you’re thinking. When I went to Nashville, the coaches were talking to me: “What are you thinking? What do you want to do? Do you like playing with this guy or that guy?” There was a lot more communication.
Hal Gill regarding Subban:
I really wanted to play with P.K. The problem was with P.K. is that everyone wanted to fix him. P.K. is P.K. You don’t fix him.
He’s got to learn to focus. He’s so gifted, he just kinda goes and does his thing, that’s what he’s always done. He goes out there – “It’s my turn? I’m going to jump on the ice and be awesome.” Just focus.
I wonder what MathMan thinks of Gill and Spacek's idea of the JM system?
I tend to agree with his analysis 90% of the time but frankly, being a coach is much more than Xs and Os and anyone who has played team sports knows it. Being a hockey player is a grind, and any motivation or unique outside-the-box approach can change so many little things which over the course of a game or season can change a lot of fortunes.
JM was not the coach for this team, and now we have two savvy former players saying so.
