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Old
05-22-2012, 09:09 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by TheIceman26 View Post
So people would honestly be disappointed if jvr goes 30-30 next year?
I would. I look at the list of players who scored between 65 and 70 points and JVR has just as much, maybe even more, pure talent than some of those guys on the list. It's time for him to start producing. He's now in a position where he's going to be expected to play between 17 and 19 minutes a night. 50 to 60 points just won't cut it.

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05-22-2012, 09:15 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I would. I look at the list of players who scored between 65 and 70 points and JVR has just as much, maybe even more, pure talent than some of those guys on the list. It's time for him to start producing. He's now in a position where he's going to be expected to play between 17 and 19 minutes a night. 50 to 60 points just won't cut it.
I think it really depends on the line he's placed with...if he's playing with roo on first line than yeah 65-70 is an expectation that needs to be met but if he's put with young centers, couts or schenn than id be happy with 30-30. If he gets first line playing time(like all of the others on that list) then id agree with your point, if not I think 60 points is a successful stepping stone.

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05-22-2012, 09:59 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by TheIceman26 View Post
I think it really depends on the line he's placed with...if he's playing with roo on first line than yeah 65-70 is an expectation that needs to be met but if he's put with young centers, couts or schenn than id be happy with 30-30. If he gets first line playing time(like all of the others on that list) then id agree with your point, if not I think 60 points is a successful stepping stone.
Fair enough and I see where you're coming from. I can also see Laviolette keeping the status quo with regards to the centers if JVR goes left side with Giroux. I could very easily see Pete putting Hartnell back with Briere and someone like Voracek and then using Simmonds - Schenn - Read on the third line with Talbot - Couturier - Wellwood manning the fourth.

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05-23-2012, 07:55 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Fair enough and I see where you're coming from. I can also see Laviolette keeping the status quo with regards to the centers if JVR goes left side with Giroux. I could very easily see Pete putting Hartnell back with Briere and someone like Voracek and then using Simmonds - Schenn - Read on the third line with Talbot - Couturier - Wellwood manning the fourth.
They need to move Briere to the wing. They have to get Schenn and Couturier more ice time next year.

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05-23-2012, 08:19 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
They have to get Schenn and Couturier more ice time next year.
I think they see that too, but with Schenn having played Wing successfully, it makes almost more sense to leave him there for the longterm plans of the team imo. Once Briere is gone, Giroux and Couturier are the top 2 C with Schenn playing a 1st or 2nd line wing spot. Otherwise, one of the 3 of them is a 3rd line center, which diminishes their time even if you roll 3-4.

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05-23-2012, 11:04 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
They need to move Briere to the wing. They have to get Schenn and Couturier more ice time next year.
Agree. They need schenn and couts to start become major corner stones of this team, as well as Jvr. Giroux can't do everything himself, we saw that in the playoffs. (but he sure as hell will try)

I think this coming season is the year well see briere moved permenantly to the wing, barring Injuries.

If Jvr can be healthy next season and grab a spot with giroux and develop chemistry, I think ~35 goals is attainable.

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05-23-2012, 11:16 AM
  #57
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Briere if anything needs a complimentary creative player like Leino was to be truly effective. Ever since he came here he's been kind of jerked around yet he still has produced for the most part.

His lack of size down the middle is a problem but was less so when that Leino line was dominating with puck possession and keeping opposing teams honest..at least during that initial year when Leino was acquired. Leino then started becoming a turnover machine himself but it looks like it was attributed to injury (hip) more than anything. In Buffalo of course he's pretty much been a bust....

Moving Briere to wing I don't think is going to help much..Briere needs people who are creative and can protect the puck so that Briere can jump into the holes like he does when he's on his game. You need him to be with a Prospal/Leino type player...

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05-23-2012, 12:49 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I think they see that too, but with Schenn having played Wing successfully, it makes almost more sense to leave him there for the longterm plans of the team imo. Once Briere is gone, Giroux and Couturier are the top 2 C with Schenn playing a 1st or 2nd line wing spot. Otherwise, one of the 3 of them is a 3rd line center, which diminishes their time even if you roll 3-4.
I go back and forth with this all the time. On one hand, I love the idea of having all 3 at center and spreading the talent around. On the other hand, I also love the idea of stacking the top two lines and creating a traditional 3rd checking line and a 4th line that can bang bodies and play hockey.

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05-23-2012, 01:12 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I think they see that too, but with Schenn having played Wing successfully, it makes almost more sense to leave him there for the longterm plans of the team imo. Once Briere is gone, Giroux and Couturier are the top 2 C with Schenn playing a 1st or 2nd line wing spot. Otherwise, one of the 3 of them is a 3rd line center, which diminishes their time even if you roll 3-4.
But briere is here for the next 5 years!

Im on board with everyone saying he needs to be a 70pt guy. And I think he will be but I'm ok with 60 this season and then 75 next year. He's still a big guy that takes longer to developed and with all of his lower body stuff I imagine that's been delayed. Lets hope not stunted

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05-28-2012, 04:02 PM
  #60
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I still think JvR is going to be a 1st line winger for a long time. Unfortunately, he had the injury bug this past year (which I'm hoping is an anomaly because he wasn't injury prone before this season).

I can see JvR scoring 60+ pts this upcoming season (30+ goals).

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05-28-2012, 06:02 PM
  #61
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hmm. reading these comments i always thinking what i miss. been watching in 3 years all flyers games and i don't see that jvr never gonna get into "elite" status. he got poor hands and doing always same things..he's carter lite..wrister wrister high and wide. his pack of tricks is like 3 moves...so light.he's only good side is speed.after 1 season of couturier and you right away saw that potential in him...but i don't see nothing in jrv. nothing. i really hope that he got sold this summer...4.25mil sounds so ugly for what jrv brings in team.

has he been super great before nhl career or why people really think he will turn around? 3 years and i have seen 1 playoff run which went well for him.
maybe as fin i pull little bit in home but i think leino was much better for flyers than jrv is never gonna be.

ps. sorry my grammar errors. and i try to not write any more rant post's about jrv and carle i really hope they are both gone in this summer.

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05-28-2012, 06:11 PM
  #62
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At some point the kid has to figure out whether he wants to be the playoff dominant JVR, or the don't hear his name for 15 game stretches JVR. Hopefully at his cap hit, he makes the right choice.

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05-29-2012, 03:35 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Fair enough and I see where you're coming from. I can also see Laviolette keeping the status quo with regards to the centers if JVR goes left side with Giroux. I could very easily see Pete putting Hartnell back with Briere and someone like Voracek and then using Simmonds - Schenn - Read on the third line with Talbot - Couturier - Wellwood manning the fourth.
Couturier on the fourth line is waste of talent.
He should center the third as long as Briere is still a lock on the second line. They can move him up and down the lineup when injuries occur and still use him as the primary shutdown center in critical situations.

It was the right decision to ease him in this year but I don't see why he can't play regular minutes and start developing his offensive game next season. If Jagr is not resigned that opens up one slot in the top six.

I would go with Talbot as the 4th line pivot and preferably add a shutdown center who can win some draws to solidify the spot.

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05-29-2012, 08:51 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Couturier on the fourth line is waste of talent.
He should center the third as long as Briere is still a lock on the second line. They can move him up and down the lineup when injuries occur and still use him as the primary shutdown center in critical situations.

It was the right decision to ease him in this year but I don't see why he can't play regular minutes and start developing his offensive game next season. If Jagr is not resigned that opens up one slot in the top six.

I would go with Talbot as the 4th line pivot and preferably add a shutdown center who can win some draws to solidify the spot.
I would love to see Gaustad as our 4th line center next season. If he's too pricey, maybe a guy like Jay McClement could do. He doesn't bring the size and snarl that Gaustad does and he's not as good on faceoffs, though he is still pretty solid in that regard, but he is a very solid pker that could take some time off from Giroux there perhaps.

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05-29-2012, 09:20 AM
  #65
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I would love to see Gaustad as our 4th line center next season. If he's too pricey, maybe a guy like Jay McClement could do. He doesn't bring the size and snarl that Gaustad does and he's not as good on faceoffs, though he is still pretty solid in that regard, but he is a very solid pker that could take some time off from Giroux there perhaps.
Sorry, but Gaustad is really only useful for faceoffs.
He does have size but doesn't use it that effectively and there really isn't that much snarl in his game.
Plus, he has a history of shoulder injuries and after they flare up, he becomes almost useless.
He's probably looking for a bump in salary too (last deal was 4 yrs/$2.3m), which makes things worse.

McClement > Gaustad.

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06-04-2012, 02:02 PM
  #66
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Gabriel Landeskog - His first year has been better than any of JVR's not just points wise but defensively and physically while playing on a lower scoring team in a lower scoring year

Tyler Seguin - Second year already has 67 points and leading his team in scoring

Victor Hedman - Has struggled thus far but imprved a lot this year and since coming back from his injury has looked like a true #1d-man

Drew Doughty - Already has a Norris nomination and is a forerunner for the conn smyth this year

Jordan Staal - Top defensive forwards while having multiple decent seasons being stuck behind Malkin and Crosby. 50 points and 25 goals in only 62 games this year

Bobby Ryan - Already one of the most skilled forwards in the league hands wise and has atleast 30 goals in all 4 seasons he has been in the nhl. Already has a 70 point season

Evgeni Malkin - a calder, 2 Art Ross, a Conn Smyth, 3 times Hart & ted lindsay finalist and possible one of each when the year is over.

Eric Staal - 100 Point season, Multiple 70 point seasons playing with no help, lead the playoffs in scoring.

Kari Lehtonen - Great Golie, suffers through a lot of injuries but when healthy is a top goalie in the league and has shwn that this year.

Jason Spezza - Career ppg player, On pace for ver 100 points multiple times, 4th in scoring this year

Danny Heatly - Multiple 100 point and 50 goal seasons.

Daniel Sedin - Art Ross and Ted Lindsay winner

David Legwand - We have to go all to 1998 to find someone who seems to be similiar to jvr in development curve.


All of the other guys bar vcitor hedman had shown signs or already developed into threats as early as their second year. Every single forward there has had a better first or second year than jvr has had up to now and all of them did it straight out of the draft. He had 2 extra development years and still cannot top any of them. Kids a bust

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06-04-2012, 02:15 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
Gabriel Landeskog - His first year has been better than any of JVR's not just points wise but defensively and physically while playing on a lower scoring team in a lower scoring year

Tyler Seguin - Second year already has 67 points and leading his team in scoring

Victor Hedman - Has struggled thus far but imprved a lot this year and since coming back from his injury has looked like a true #1d-man

Drew Doughty - Already has a Norris nomination and is a forerunner for the conn smyth this year

Jordan Staal - Top defensive forwards while having multiple decent seasons being stuck behind Malkin and Crosby. 50 points and 25 goals in only 62 games this year

Bobby Ryan - Already one of the most skilled forwards in the league hands wise and has atleast 30 goals in all 4 seasons he has been in the nhl. Already has a 70 point season

Evgeni Malkin - a calder, 2 Art Ross, a Conn Smyth, 3 times Hart & ted lindsay finalist and possible one of each when the year is over.

Eric Staal - 100 Point season, Multiple 70 point seasons playing with no help, lead the playoffs in scoring.

Kari Lehtonen - Great Golie, suffers through a lot of injuries but when healthy is a top goalie in the league and has shwn that this year.

Jason Spezza - Career ppg player, On pace for ver 100 points multiple times, 4th in scoring this year

Danny Heatly - Multiple 100 point and 50 goal seasons.

Daniel Sedin - Art Ross and Ted Lindsay winner

David Legwand - We have to go all to 1998 to find someone who seems to be similiar to jvr in development curve.


All of the other guys bar vcitor hedman had shown signs or already developed into threats as early as their second year. Every single forward there has had a better first or second year than jvr has had up to now and all of them did it straight out of the draft. He had 2 extra development years and still cannot top any of them. Kids a bust
This is quite possibly the dumbest post I have ever seen on these boards. Kid doesn't break out in 2 years and he's a bust

Did you realise that our number 1 defenseman named timonen didn't "break out" until he was 27.

Shall I post a list of players that didn't breakout in their first 4 years, but became stars. Oh look, the sedin brothers didn't have a great start, they had 5 years of mediocre points. Both are clearly busts. I can't believe cannuck fans want them on thier team.

Some people around here need to grow up. JVR has just turned 23, not 28 or 29. He's only just finished growing, he has one injury plagued year and suddenly he's a terrible bust.

Sometimes flyers fans really don't deserve the players they have on this team.

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06-04-2012, 02:44 PM
  #68
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This is quite possibly the dumbest post I have ever seen on these boards. Kid doesn't break out in 2 years and he's a bust

Did you realise that our number 1 defenseman named timonen didn't "break out" until he was 27.

Shall I post a list of players that didn't breakout in their first 4 years, but became stars. Oh look, the sedin brothers didn't have a great start, they had 5 years of mediocre points. Both are clearly busts. I can't believe cannuck fans want them on thier team.

Some people around here need to grow up. JVR has just turned 23, not 28 or 29. He's only just finished growing, he has one injury plagued year and suddenly he's a terrible bust.

Sometimes flyers fans really don't deserve the players they have on this team.
1. People cannot comprehend just HOW injured JvR was this year. The kid couldn't walk but he skated in game 5! (LITERALLY HE COULD NOT WALK.)
2. Am I the only one who has watched him play with voracek? They have awesome chemistry & speed together!
3. He's getting bigger..he's STILL growing (muscle wise)
4. He's a "Big game" guy. I don't expect him to score 50+ in the regular season, but he will be a PPG in the playoffs for SURE.
(people boo'd Briere for TWO YEARS here..now they dont say a ******* thing.)

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06-04-2012, 03:00 PM
  #69
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This is quite possibly the dumbest post I have ever seen on these boards. Kid doesn't break out in 2 years and he's a bust

Did you realise that our number 1 defenseman named timonen didn't "break out" until he was 27.

Shall I post a list of players that didn't breakout in their first 4 years, but became stars. Oh look, the sedin brothers didn't have a great start, they had 5 years of mediocre points. Both are clearly busts. I can't believe cannuck fans want them on thier team.

Some people around here need to grow up. JVR has just turned 23, not 28 or 29. He's only just finished growing, he has one injury plagued year and suddenly he's a terrible bust.

Sometimes flyers fans really don't deserve the players they have on this team.
Did you even read my post? And he's here calling my post dumb.

All these are 2nd overall picks just like JVR, i didnt just pick a list of random players so i dont see why and how you can pick a list of players that didnt just break out in their first 4 years. I never said anything about him having to breakout in his first two years. I said everyone of these 2nd overall picks has been better from their first or second year than JVR has produced up to this point including the fact he had 2 more years of development time when all of these 2nd overall picks went straight into the nhl. Hes been constantly paired with our best player and given every chance to succeed but he just cannot produce.

You guys are ridiculously overrating the guy and overvalue him just because he was picked "2nd overall"

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06-04-2012, 03:08 PM
  #70
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Did you even read my post? And he's here calling my post dumb.

All these are 2nd overall picks just like JVR, i didnt just pick a list of random players so i dont see why and how you can pick a list of players that didnt just break out in their first 4 years. I never said anything about him having to breakout in his first two years. I said everyone of these 2nd overall picks has been better from their first or second year than JVR has produced up to this point including the fact he had 2 more years of development time when all of these 2nd overall picks went straight into the nhl. Hes been constantly paired with our best player and given every chance to succeed but he just cannot produce.

You guys are ridiculously overrating the guy and overvalue him just because he was picked "2nd overall"
No, I value him based upon what I have seen him do on the ice. Obviously the flyers saw something too. It makes no difference whatsoever where those guys were picked. What possible relevence does that have to calling JVR a "bust".

You are not dealing with robots, you are dealing with people. Calling JVR a bust because he doesn't have the same production as other 2nd overall players. Different teams, different situations, didfferent people. JVR was on the third line in his rookie season, last year he had little to no PP time. But don't worry about that. Just look at points produced and call him a bust.

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06-04-2012, 03:13 PM
  #71
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No, I value him based upon what I have seen him do on the ice. Obviously the flyers saw something too. It makes no difference whatsoever where those guys were picked. What possible relevence does that have to calling JVR a "bust".

You are not dealing with robots, you are dealing with people. Calling JVR a bust because he doesn't have the same production as other 2nd overall players. Different teams, different situations, didfferent people. JVR was on the third line in his rookie season, last year he had little to no PP time. But don't worry about that. Just look at points produced and call him a bust.
What exactly have you seen? As all i have seen from him is the same thing over and over where whenever he gets the puck he skates into the net with it and flings a shot on goal. That's the same thing he does EVERYTIME. Doesn't look for the pass at all.

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06-04-2012, 03:13 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
This is quite possibly the dumbest post I have ever seen on these boards. Kid doesn't break out in 2 years and he's a bust

Did you realise that our number 1 defenseman named timonen didn't "break out" until he was 27.

Shall I post a list of players that didn't breakout in their first 4 years, but became stars. Oh look, the sedin brothers didn't have a great start, they had 5 years of mediocre points. Both are clearly busts. I can't believe cannuck fans want them on thier team.

Some people around here need to grow up. JVR has just turned 23, not 28 or 29. He's only just finished growing, he has one injury plagued year and suddenly he's a terrible bust.

Sometimes flyers fans really don't deserve the players they have on this team.
i dont understand your obsession with jvr, you think he's patrick kane, sidney Crosby, he's nowhere near that and matt read, sean couturier had breakout years and has more goals than jvr, im sick of the injury excuse, he's not what he is maybe not for this team, maybe he's better off somewhere else whether you like it or not.

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06-04-2012, 03:14 PM
  #73
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He definitely hasn't earned his impending cap hit.

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06-04-2012, 03:15 PM
  #74
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i dont understand your obsession with jvr, you think he's patrick kane, sidney Crosby, he's nowhere near that and matt read, sean couturier had breakout years and has more goals than jvr, im sick of the injury excuse, he's not what he is maybe not for this team, maybe he's better off somewhere else whether you like it or not.
He sees "2nd overall" and its stuck in his head that this guy must be a superstar so blindly fools himself into believing he is something hes not even close to.

And great point about Matt Read. Undrafted guy out of who knows where (okay i do know where but still) and his first seasons already much better than anything JVR has done while getting much less opportunities to succeed

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06-04-2012, 04:05 PM
  #75
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Did you even read my post? And he's here calling my post dumb.

All these are 2nd overall picks just like JVR, i didnt just pick a list of random players so i dont see why and how you can pick a list of players that didnt just break out in their first 4 years. I never said anything about him having to breakout in his first two years. I said everyone of these 2nd overall picks has been better from their first or second year than JVR has produced up to this point including the fact he had 2 more years of development time when all of these 2nd overall picks went straight into the nhl. Hes been constantly paired with our best player and given every chance to succeed but he just cannot produce.

You guys are ridiculously overrating the guy and overvalue him just because he was picked "2nd overall"
Daniel Sedin wasn't better then JvR in his first three years.

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