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Old
05-29-2012, 11:31 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
David Jones would not be more of the same.

Where on the roster is the 6-3, 220 physical power forward that can score 20+ goals per season? I don't see him.

He had two independent fluke injuries. I wouldn't be too concerned about them now. He could provide this team a lot of good.
You still wouldn't have that guy after signing David Jones. He's about as physical as Feds or Mitchell.

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05-29-2012, 11:35 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Until the time that Byle and Prust are on the 4th line and get 4th line minutes, the Rangers are not deep. Time to replace Feds with a young, fast crasher to add to that line, and they need to fill out the 3rd line. There is lots of work to do before they are a cup-worthy team.
dude we were 2 wins from the finals, and finished first in the conference.

You make it seem like we are the 2009 Rangers.

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05-29-2012, 11:36 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The Rangers need another sniper, so somethings gotta give sooner or later.

Signing even more bottom 9 guys is probably the last thing this team should do.
Agree. We need to upgrade up top of F. And move down the line some of our top 6.
We need a capable power forward. Just imagine Nash in place of Dubi or even Kreider and we are in the finals. I don't want to start another Kreider vs. Nash whole argument here, but the simplest way to improve is to add at least one elite top 6 player. Last time I checked Krieder is the only one who could fill that void, but he will need a few years, something that Lundqvist may not have.

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05-29-2012, 11:47 AM
  #54
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I'm at work right now so I can't look this up. However, I want to ask this question. How many teams in this league have 3 legitimate first liners playing together on one line?

You're not going to find the answer to be very high. Moreover, you're not going to find many teams that have 3 first liners at all to be built from the net out like we are.

Except for Parise, who I don't think is coming here, bringing in another top scorer doesn't simply bump players down into roles that they're more suited to. It also removes players who may already be in that role. This greatly mitigates the effect of "adding depth" in this matter. Moving Dubinsky for Ryan, as an example, only legitimately adds 10-15 goals to the lineup. Given what else we would have to give up, it's simply not worth it.

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05-29-2012, 11:51 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I'm at work right now so I can't look this up. However, I want to ask this question. How many teams in this league have 3 legitimate first liners playing together on one line?

.
We should only look at two teams. We already belong to 28 others.

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05-29-2012, 11:58 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Agree. We need to upgrade up top of F. And move down the line some of our top 6.
We need a capable power forward. Just imagine Nash in place of Dubi or even Kreider and we are in the finals. I don't want to start another Kreider vs. Nash whole argument here, but the simplest way to improve is to add at least one elite top 6 player. Last time I checked Krieder is the only one who could fill that void, but he will need a few years, something that Lundqvist may not have.
Agreed.
The Rangers need a young top end scorer (Nash/Ryan type players) NOW. Imagine this team with one of those guys on the roster. I think Kreider will develop into a top end scorer after next year, once he gets some experience. A Nash/Ryan will help this team now and for the future after Gaborik is gone in 2 years.

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05-29-2012, 12:02 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Agree. We need to upgrade up top of F. And move down the line some of our top 6.
We need a capable power forward. Just imagine Nash in place of Dubi or even Kreider and we are in the finals. I don't want to start another Kreider vs. Nash whole argument here, but the simplest way to improve is to add at least one elite top 6 player. Last time I checked Krieder is the only one who could fill that void, but he will need a few years, something that Lundqvist may not have.
You bring up a good point, and its a point I was going to make in reference to Graves94's post about Kreider. How can anyone argue against Kreider being an offensively gifted player? I just dont think he will be a consistent 30 goal threat for a few years. I can already envision the uproar on this board when Kreider's ice time is cut while he learns the defensive side of the game which, at times during the playoffs, was horrific. But hes young and thats to be expected as part of the process.

With that said, the current makeup of this team has a window to worry about. If it takes Kreider a couple of years to find his footing as a consistent and dependable goal scorer, that leaves us with a 35 year old Richards, Gaborik gone, and more milage on Lundqvist.

It gets complicated with the lockout coming up, but its crystal clear that this team is going to need to trade for or sign another legitimate top line winger that can put the puck in the net. And its going to need to happen sooner rather than later.

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05-29-2012, 12:09 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You bring up a good point, and its a point I was going to make in reference to Graves94's post about Kreider. How can anyone argue against Kreider being an offensively gifted player? I just dont think he will be a consistent 30 goal threat for a few years. I can already envision the uproar on this board when Kreider's ice time is cut while he learns the defensive side of the game which, at times during the playoffs, was horrific. But hes young and thats to be expected as part of the process.

With that said, the current makeup of this team has a window to worry about. If it takes Kreider a couple of years to find his footing as a consistent and dependable goal scorer, that leaves us with a 35 year old Richards, Gaborik gone, and more milage on Lundqvist.

It gets complicated with the lockout coming up, but its crystal clear that this team is going to need to trade for or sign another legitimate top line winger that can put the puck in the net. And its going to need to happen sooner rather than later.
yep. but, i think the team woudl be MUCH better off trading for a guy like Nash w/o giving up Kreider, or just going out and signing Parise, than trading kreider.

I get that Kreider is a few years away, but hes a good prospect, and you need cheaper young guys to fill in around the expensive guys, otherwise you become the Atlanta Thrashers when they had a few great players and NOTHING else.

My preference would be...

1)Trade for Nash
2)Trade for Evander Kane
3)Trade for Bobby Ryan
4)Sign Zach Parise and trade Dubi for a good pick
5)Trade for Iginla

In that order.

If you cant do any of those 5 at prices that are acceptable, then i go into next season with the team pretty much as is, and incorporate more youth into the club.

I think Nash is criminally underrated around here. His salary is ridiculous, but the guy is a monster. His numbers aren't tough to figure out, he's got ZERO help.

I'm a HUGE Evander Kane fan. I think he's going to put up very similar numbers to Iginla. He's probably the least likely move of all of them. Kid is a stud, Winnipeg woudl be idiots to trade him.

Bobby Ryan probably isnt going to be traded, but id take a look anyway.

Zach Parise could definitely be had, but I think it will take a monster contract...something similar to Nash in terms of numbers, with MUCH longer term.

Iginla is going to be the real interesting one. Guy is still a 35/35 guy despite his age, and has some good solid years left in him. I think that may be the most likely move since the Flames are likely heading for a rebuild and he only has 3 or 4 good years left in him AT MOST.

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05-29-2012, 12:24 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
It gets complicated with the lockout coming up.
Exactly. It is risky. Yet might be rewarding. I think Dolan told Slats that perennial playoff team is what he wants, not one-and-done Cup winner. Since this season was a success for Rangers management the "Dolittle" attitude may more likely to continue than not.

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05-29-2012, 12:28 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
My preference would be...

1)Trade for Nash
2)Trade for Evander Kane
3)Trade for Bobby Ryan
4)Sign Zach Parise and trade Dubi for a good pick
5)Trade for Iginla

In that order.
Good order. If Iginla, why not Lecavalier? Do you discount Semin entirely?

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05-29-2012, 12:32 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Good order. If Iginla, why not Lecavalier? Do you discount Semin entirely?
Vinny L is falling apart and Torts would literally kill Semin on the first day of TC. No way Semin wants to sign in NY with Torts as his coach.

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05-29-2012, 12:47 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
We should only look at two teams. We already belong to 28 others.
Fine, but neither of those teams have 3 legit first liners on them, so what's your point?

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05-29-2012, 12:54 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I like virtually all of our young players that have actually played an NHL game. My major issue is that none of them are top-end scorers, nor do they project to be. Consider that you've got another crop of forwards ready to come in over the next couple of years that aren't top end scorers either, and where does that leave us? With an even bigger log-jam in the bottom 9 forwards.

The Rangers need another sniper, so somethings gotta give sooner or later.

Signing even more bottom 9 guys is probably the last thing this team should do.
I agree with you, and this team does need more scoring. But I think we have the pieces to do so, since players like Dubinsky, Richards, and Staal, all had down years compared to seasons past, and their Career Averages.

If these players, are able to have normal seasons next year compared to the numbers they had this year, I think that alone will give us the scoring difference we need.

Not to mention the possibility of Stepan, Anisimov, Del Zotto, Mc Donagh, improving their game in the offseason.

As well as the addition of Kreider for a full season, who if he keeps the same pace as he had this playoffs would add little more then 20 goals, and 40 points to our total.

Yes adding a piece or 2 via free agency is fine, I just don't want us trading any of our pieces away for a vet just because they had a down year. Which also happened to be the Teams best year since 94, just imagine how the team would be if everyone had a avg or great year next year?

Lets not make the same mistake the 94 team made, of trading away their youth and talent for one cup, and then sending us into a decade long drought.

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05-29-2012, 12:58 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by jskramer83 View Post
I agree with you, and this team does need more scoring. But I think we have the pieces to do so, since players like Dubinsky, Richards, and Staal, all had down years compared to seasons past, and their Career Averages.

If these players, are able to have normal seasons next year compared to the numbers they had this year, I think that alone will give us the scoring difference we need.

Not to mention the possibility of Stepan, Anisimov, Del Zotto, Mc Donagh, improving their game in the offseason.

As well as the addition of Kreider for a full season, who if he keeps the same pace as he had this playoffs would add little more then 20 goals, and 40 points to our total.

Yes adding a piece or 2 via free agency is fine, I just don't want us trading any of our pieces away for a vet just because they had a down year. Which also happened to be the Teams best year since 94, just imagine how the team would be if everyone had a avg or great year next year?
expecting the ppl who struggled to bounce back needs to be tempered with other players who had career years dropping back down to earth.

Brian Boyle, for example, was counted on by many on these boards to repeat his performance from his contract year....it didnt happen.

I wouldnt count on everyone who performed to all keep their level, AND to have everyone who underperformed to bounce back.

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05-29-2012, 01:07 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
expecting the ppl who struggled to bounce back needs to be tempered with other players who had career years dropping back down to earth.

Brian Boyle, for example, was counted on by many on these boards to repeat his performance from his contract year....it didnt happen.

I wouldnt count on everyone who performed to all keep their level, AND to have everyone who underperformed to bounce back.
This is true, same could be said with Trading for a Vet like Nash because a change of scenery is a factor that will affect a players performance. Who knows how it will work, ask Montreal how trading for Gomez worked, or how Bure, Drury, Redden, Holik, all worked for us?

The only thing we know for sure with any move is the Dubi, and Staal have played here for four plus years, and for the past 4 years have shown they can put up better numbers then they have this year.

Richards, is a different case, only been here one year so not sure if this is the best he can do here, or if he will put up numbers more indicative of his past.

It is a lot different though saying that a player who had one down year out of 5 will revert back to his old self, then saying a player like boyle who had 1 good year out of 4 consistently put up numbers from his one good year

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05-29-2012, 01:29 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Problem is there is no way to add another "elite" player via free agency.

There's going to be a lockout.

Precisely for this reason, we should add an elite player like Suter or Parise now. This will probably be the last chance to get an elite player in his 20s. The UFA age will likely move into the 30s when teams will be stuck with big contracts to players who may collapse at any moment.

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05-29-2012, 01:32 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If you're so gung-ho about signing David Jones, why not just give Brandon Dubinsky another chance?
It may be difficult to pull off, but if the Rangers could sign Jones for Dubi's money, and then trade Dubi for prospects/picks, that would be good asset management. You get a comparable player for comparable money, plus you get some other return. The downside to this is that Dubi is a homegrown player, but I can live with that.

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05-29-2012, 02:41 PM
  #68
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"Kreider is a few years away"? What a joke.

He's on the roster and scored 5 goals in the playoffs. 2nd on the team. With 18 games of experience.

Kid is a top six player right now.

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05-29-2012, 02:41 PM
  #69
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You still wouldn't have that guy after signing David Jones. He's about as physical as Feds or Mitchell.
Mitchell is physical.

Jones would be a solid addition to this club.


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05-29-2012, 02:49 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
"Kreider is a few years away"? What a joke.

He's on the roster and scored 5 goals in the playoffs. 2nd on the team. With 18 games of experience.

Kid is a top six player right now.
Hes got a lot to learn on the defensive side of the puck. A lot. Tortorella isnt going to let him play 18-20 minutes a night until hes learned how to play on both sides at the NHL level.

Some nights he'll be a top 6 guy - some nights he wont in the nearterm.

Theres also a major difference between "Kreider is a few years away" and "Kreider is a few years away from being a consistent 30 goal threat" wouldnt you say?


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05-29-2012, 02:59 PM
  #71
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Here's the way I see our "depth":

True 1st line talent: Richards, Gaborik
True 2nd liners: Krieder, Callahan
True 3rd liners: Anisimov, Stepan, Zuccarello, Dubinsky, Hagelin
True 4th liners: Boyle, Rupp, Prust, Feds, Mitchell

Not very deep is it. One possible way to salvage that group would be to add a true 2nd line center, move Krieder up to top line and Dubinsky to 2nd line. Or acquire a 1st line center and drop Richards to 2nd line, which is probably best due to Richards' advancing age. This new center must be fast with great hands, and have the ability to force defenders to back off, which will create more open space and offense. Did you notice how the NYR defenders dropped back when Kovy or Parise came flying down the ice with a head of steam?

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05-29-2012, 03:00 PM
  #72
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It may be difficult to pull off, but if the Rangers could sign Jones for Dubi's money, and then trade Dubi for prospects/picks, that would be good asset management. You get a comparable player for comparable money, plus you get some other return. The downside to this is that Dubi is a homegrown player, but I can live with that.
I see this suggested all the time, but honestly, how often does a team take on $4M+ in annual cap hit, without sending any salary back the other way?

Sure, it might be nice asset management for the Rangers, but it would be horrendous to this imaginary team, especially after the season Dubi just had.

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05-29-2012, 03:01 PM
  #73
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Hes got a lot to learn on the defensive side of the puck. A lot. Tortorella isnt going to let him play 18-20 minutes a night until hes learned how to play on both sides at the NHL level.

Some nights he'll be a top 6 guy - some nights he wont in the nearterm.
The coaching staff hasn't had a real opportunity to work with him the way they want.

He will have a full training camp and enough games early in the season to build on that.

He's no where near as bad as you're making it sound. He's not much of a shot blocker. Again, things the staff hasn't had a chance to work on. He backchecks, covers for pinching defensemen, creates turnovers in the neutral zone. There's a foundation there.

He will learn.

In the meantime, the things he can do offensively, are very valuable to this club moving forward.

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05-29-2012, 03:08 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Mitchell is physical.

Jones would be a solid addition to this club.
Barely. To be honest, I think comparing him to Mitchell was over-stating his physicality. He's not afraid of contact, but to me, being "physical" means initiating contact and doing it often.

Jones doesn't create offense. Which is what we need.

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05-29-2012, 03:10 PM
  #75
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Offensively, at least half of our forwards are atrocious.

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