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Snider Talks about Bryzgalov; Paul Holmgren “has to focus on the defense first.”

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Old
05-29-2012, 10:21 PM
  #76
BrindamoursNose
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
You get pronger because you know he is money in the playoffs. Weber is still unproven in that area and you guys want to ship jvr schenn and 2 1sts THEN pay him 8.5 a year? Sign suter nothing more


You don't get more Pronger-in-the-playoffs-like than that my good sir

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05-29-2012, 10:23 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
They'd eat the 8.5m for one year and then trade what? His rights?

Or would they try to move him at the deadline?

I doubt they'd be able to get more than the value of four 1st rounders from a team.




Which is another reason I approach any trade for Weber with apprehension.

An offersheet seems much better.
I think they match any offersheet for Weber. The reason they can't sign him is him not seeing the Predators as committed to winning. Offersheeting him would make it easy on Preds to get LT deal.

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05-29-2012, 10:23 PM
  #78
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It might cost the same. It's widely known that Paul Holmgren bid against himself to get Pronger.
Actually he was bidding against the Capitals. They balked once the Ducks wanted Carlson.

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05-29-2012, 10:27 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I think he means Carle's rights...which obviously aren't worth a 2nd. Maybe a 4th.
Maybe I'm ambitious about Carle's rights (yes, that's what I meant) fetching a high second, but if Suter comes off the market (as with this scenario), Carle's stock could rise appreciably.

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05-29-2012, 10:28 PM
  #80
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Actually he was bidding against the Capitals. They balked once the Ducks wanted Carlson.
Steve ****ing Eminger.

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05-29-2012, 10:30 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I think he means Carle's rights...which obviously aren't worth a 2nd. Maybe a 4th.
Oh yeah jeez if he just meant the rights no way are they worth a 2nd. I'd say a 4th rounder tops. Hamhuis' rights got us a 3rd a few years ago after all.

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05-29-2012, 10:31 PM
  #82
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Maybe I'm ambitious about Carle's rights (yes, that's what I meant) fetching a high second, but if Suter comes off the market (as with this scenario), Carle's stock could rise appreciably.
No shot his rights are worth a 2nd. I'm HOPING for a 3rd (and that's only ambitious because Carle is probably 3rd best D-Man on market)

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05-29-2012, 10:39 PM
  #83
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I cant take another season of watching Carle's turnovers.

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05-29-2012, 10:49 PM
  #84
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If Snider wants a team that focuses on defense, he knows what he needs to do.
Amen.

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Old
05-29-2012, 10:58 PM
  #85
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if we give weber a 1 yr 8.5-9mil deal, one of two things happen
1. (unlikely) we get him!!!11!! (for 4 1sts)
2. Nash matches...but then next year he is an UFA!

shouldn't we at least give that a shot?

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05-29-2012, 11:02 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
if we give weber a 1 yr 8.5-9mil deal, one of two things happen
1. (unlikely) we get him!!!11!! (for 4 1sts)
2. Nash matches...but then next year he is an UFA!

shouldn't we at least give that a shot?
I say we do something Nash might not be able to match; another terrible, no-good, horrible, bad-idea long-term contract.

12 years:
10m
10m
10m
10m
10m
8m
8m
8m
6m
4m
3m
3m

= 7.5m/year over 12 years

Does Nashville have the finances to commit to that after committing to Rinne?

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05-29-2012, 11:07 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I say we do something Nash might not be able to match; another terrible, no-good, horrible, bad-idea long-term contract.

12 years:
10m
10m
10m
10m
10m
8m
8m
8m
6m
4m
3m
3m

= 7.5m/year over 12 years

Does Nashville have the finances to commit to that after committing to Rinne?
and people bust on bryzgalov's contract? bwahahahahahahah! wait a minute, its so crazy it just might work

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Old
05-29-2012, 11:09 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
if we give weber a 1 yr 8.5-9mil deal, one of two things happen
1. (unlikely) we get him!!!11!! (for 4 1sts)
2. Nash matches...but then next year he is an UFA!

shouldn't we at least give that a shot?
What if Nashville doesn't match, but Weber wants to test free agency on July 1, 2013?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I say we do something Nash might not be able to match; another terrible, no-good, horrible, bad-idea long-term contract.

12 years:
10m
10m
10m
10m
10m
8m
8m
8m
6m
4m
3m
3m

= 7.5m/year over 12 years

Does Nashville have the finances to commit to that after committing to Rinne?
I think they match and let Suter walk.

Call it the Pronger effect--you can throw Klein or Josi with Weber and still have a serviceable top-pairing for under 9 million.

If it becomes a budget issue, they can move Weber later.

Mostly, though, I don't think Holmgren will do it. GMs are weird about OS. I don't like that they are, but they are, and the Flyers and Nashville have always had a decent relationship.

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05-29-2012, 11:11 PM
  #89
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What if Nashville doesn't match, but Weber wants to test free agency on July 1, 2013?
Then we spent four 1st rounders on a UFA defenseman.

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05-29-2012, 11:13 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
What if Nashville doesn't match, but Weber wants to test free agency on July 1, 2013?
Thats the type of risk you have to take to win. But we'd also probably figure that out by talking to him in negotiations.

(plus something in me says Weber is made for philly)

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Old
05-29-2012, 11:14 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Then we spent four 1st rounders on a UFA defenseman.
Yeah. I'm not comfortable with that.

Four late 1sts sounds ok, but in practice, you still have a decent shot at picking up a good player.

For example, look at this six year period. In each case, the Flyers held a 1st rounder between 21-29 (not necessarily their own, but, for the same of determining value, it works as a sample):

2005 - Steve Downie (29th)
2006 - Claude Giroux (22nd)
2007 - Jonathon Blum (23rd--orig. Nashville's, when back to Nashville)
2008 - John Carlson (27th overall)
2009 - John Moore (21st)
2010 - Emerson Etem (29th)

Even taking the four lowest-valued assets--Downie, Blum, Moore, and Etem, that's still a pretty significant price. Would I pay it for Weber? Probably for a long-term deal, but certainly not for a 1 year rental.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
Thats the type of risk you have to take to win. But we'd also probably figure that out by talking to him in negotiations.

(plus something in me says Weber is made for philly)
They can't negotiate a long-term deal with Weber before he signs the OS. At that point, the Flyers lose all leverage, because they'd be staring at the prospect of having surrendered four firsts for a one-year rental.


Last edited by Jack de la Hoya: 05-29-2012 at 11:26 PM.
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Old
05-29-2012, 11:22 PM
  #92
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GMs are weird about OS. I don't like that they are, but they are, and the Flyers and Nashville have always had a decent relationship.
The OS is the biggest joke in hockey. There has to be some type of collusion among the clubs not to use it. If memory serves me correct, it infuriates GM's when they are on the receiving end of them and too many teams pass up opportunities to improve themselves by utilizing it.

How could not one club put one in front of Stamkos last year?

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05-29-2012, 11:26 PM
  #93
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Then we spent four 1st rounders on a UFA defenseman.
I think a trade would be the likely path.

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Old
05-29-2012, 11:27 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
The OS is the biggest joke in hockey. There has to be some type of collusion among the clubs not to use it. If memory serves me correct, it infuriates GM's when they are on the receiving end of them and too many teams pass up opportunities to improve themselves by utilizing it.

How could not one club put one in front of Stamkos last year?
They aren't public unless they are accepted, I believe. So we don't know what offers Stamkos received.

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05-29-2012, 11:33 PM
  #95
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I think a trade would be the likely path.
thats a good point.

But if he really didn't want to resign it'd still be a hellish turn of events

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Old
05-30-2012, 12:49 AM
  #96
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If we want a big time #1 it's Suter or bust. If Suter comes with Parise, he's not coming to Philadelphia unless JVR's or Briere's contract and possibly another are on the way out.
I am OK with that scenario, actually. Frankly, I'd already be putting out feelers for a JVR+Bobrovsky package, as well as putting together a "Thanks for everything, Matt Carle" video.

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05-30-2012, 01:33 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
The OS is the biggest joke in hockey. There has to be some type of collusion among the clubs not to use it. If memory serves me correct, it infuriates GM's when they are on the receiving end of them and too many teams pass up opportunities to improve themselves by utilizing it.

How could not one club put one in front of Stamkos last year?
For an offer sheet a team has to have their own draft picks, which limits the number of teams that would be able to offer right off the bat as many teams (such as the Flyers) frequently trade away their picks. Then a guy like Stamkos you would need a lot of caps space/a big budget (not all owners are willing to spend). Further limiting potential suitors. Some GMs don't like offer sheet and won't use them, and/or might be worried about a "revenge" RFA signing on one of their players so they might not be willing to use the offer sheet route. They might not be willing to give up the picks either, especially if it looks like they might be a lottery team. Beyond that Stamkos might have been given an offer sheet by a team, but if he didn't accept it we probably would never hear about it.

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05-30-2012, 06:39 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I say we do something Nash might not be able to match; another terrible, no-good, horrible, bad-idea long-term contract.

12 years:
10m
10m
10m
10m
10m
8m
8m
8m
6m
4m
3m
3m

= 7.5m/year over 12 years

Does Nashville have the finances to commit to that after committing to Rinne?
Nashville sells out just about every game at home. And explain to me one thing. If Weber doesn't want to play in Nashville, why would he sign an Offer Sheet from another team?

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05-30-2012, 06:59 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Well...let's see what it took to get Pronger...

Young, underachieving forward and former 1st round pick with a pricey contract.
Young defenseman playing at the NHL level as a 1st round pick.
2 first round picks in successive years.

Lupul + Sbisa + late 1st + 1st
vanRiemsdyk + Gustafsson + late 1st + 1st

vanRiemsdyk > Lupul
Gustafsson < Sbisa
late 1st + 1st = late 1st + 1st

Worth it to get Weber?
Why would Nashville want Gustafsson? They would laugh at that deal while hanging up the phone.

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05-30-2012, 07:02 AM
  #100
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How could not one club put one in front of Stamkos last year?
How do you know they didn't, and he just didn't sign it?

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