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Biggest flaw of Torts system

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Old
05-26-2012, 06:58 PM
  #26
Trident61494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
It also lead to oddman rushes and goals for the Devils.
or Del Zotto getting tangled on the blue line or fanning on a pass or the like...

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05-26-2012, 07:27 PM
  #27
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It also lead to oddman rushes and goals for the Devils.
I felt like we didnt have an odd man rush the whole series

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05-26-2012, 07:40 PM
  #28
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My vote goes for that this team is built on grit and speed. Not skill.

A Stanley Cup team has both.

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05-26-2012, 07:58 PM
  #29
NikC
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Many flaws of this team can be eradicated with more talent throughout the lineup in their respective postions. A team with only 2 legitmate top 3 players can only go so far anyway.

it caught up to us. any discerning fan knew it would eventually.
We need to bring in improvements in the top six, bottom six, and our third pairing D.

Even if our powerplay were average, think about how better team we would have been. If we're going to continue to play this system we need more scoring and more physicality. Bring in Ott, Clowe, Iginla, Ryan, players like that. Honestly i wish we'd make a move for Chris Neil, that guy would be frickin awesome on this team. he's a wrecking ball on skates.

too many chickenSh*t softies on this team.

I'm expecting some big offseason moves.

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05-26-2012, 07:58 PM
  #30
E Nixson
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To me it seemed like the Rangers were so committed to the boards in the offensive zone nobody went to the front of the net and stayed there.

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05-26-2012, 08:03 PM
  #31
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Power play.

You can't have a man advantage and only have 1 lame SOG to show for it, nor can you have so many players think pass first.

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05-26-2012, 08:23 PM
  #32
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PP sure. I was surprised when Torts said about the tactics for power play: You just let them play.

Spread the money. Richard and Gaborik on 2 lines. This gives opponent harder decision about who to cover with 3rd line and you develop offensive skills in other players by pairing them with your top offensive guys.

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05-26-2012, 08:50 PM
  #33
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Not sure if I was seeing the same thing that some here describe.
In this series, when the Rangers began a forecheck in earnest, they were trouble for the Devils and the game was truly a contest, and one which the Rangers had a great chance of winning.
When the Rangers skated around like zombies for as much as a full period, and even more, and passed the puck over to Brodeur (don't even dare call it a dump and chase, it could be more likely termed a turnover), the Devils owned the ice.

It was that simple when it came to good minutes versus bad minutes for the Rangers. That is where the series tipped. The Rangers know it. They wish they had not played like zombies for many, many minutes on end.
That is what happened.

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05-26-2012, 09:01 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
Not sure if I was seeing the same thing that some here describe.
In this series, when the Rangers began a forecheck in earnest, they were trouble for the Devils and the game was truly a contest, and one which the Rangers had a great chance of winning.
When the Rangers skated around like zombies for as much as a full period, and even more, and passed the puck over to Brodeur (don't even dare call it a dump and chase, it could be more likely termed a turnover), the Devils owned the ice.

It was that simple when it came to good minutes versus bad minutes for the Rangers. That is where the series tipped. The Rangers know it. They wish they had not played like zombies for many, many minutes on end.
That is what happened.
I think a player who personifies this so much was Callahan. When he was forechecking well he was looking good. However too many times he had no discipline with the puck and was whacking at it with his stick. I couldn't stand that there would be a Devils turnover in the neutral zone and our players would play "whack a mole" with the puck.

It was embarrassing at times.

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05-26-2012, 09:32 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
Not sure if I was seeing the same thing that some here describe.
In this series, when the Rangers began a forecheck in earnest, they were trouble for the Devils and the game was truly a contest, and one which the Rangers had a great chance of winning.
When the Rangers skated around like zombies for as much as a full period, and even more, and passed the puck over to Brodeur (don't even dare call it a dump and chase, it could be more likely termed a turnover), the Devils owned the ice.

It was that simple when it came to good minutes versus bad minutes for the Rangers. That is where the series tipped. The Rangers know it. They wish they had not played like zombies for many, many minutes on end.
That is what happened.
this is what i'm struggling with still. can't understand how they can come back in both games with more than enough time to get the go ahead goal and couldn't pull it off. Especially in game 5. We could have easily won both games in the 3rd... ugh. no killer instict.
this team is too nice. way too nice. we need some nasty hard edged players on this team.

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05-26-2012, 09:55 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Bugz View Post
This.
If the 3rd line is Prust-Boyle-Fedotenko (Rupp), we have a problem (depth). But if forward depth allow them to form the 4th line...

Without any major trade, if the line-up for next year is something like that, the Rangers will be a lot tougher to play IMO :

Hagelin - Richards - Gaborik
Kreider - Stepan - Callahan
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Yogan
Prust-Boyle-Fedotenko (Rupp)
Fixed the line up.

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05-26-2012, 09:58 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
this is what i'm struggling with still. can't understand how they can come back in both games with more than enough time to get the go ahead goal and couldn't pull it off. Especially in game 5. We could have easily won both games in the 3rd... ugh. no killer instict.
this team is too nice. way too nice. we need some nasty hard edged players on this team.
We have a lot of choir boys. Bad boys definitely needed.

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05-26-2012, 10:03 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by peanutbuttacallytime View Post
I felt like we didnt have an odd man rush the whole series
The Rangers had a few, I'm pretty sure, earlier in the series. The Devils got caught deep and the Rangers took it out, but without checking back to confirm, I think whatever developed fizzled. After a couple of games, the Devils put the screws to them with their forecheck and made less mistakes, and the Rangers were mostly lethargic for large stretches early in the game when the Devils murdelized them.


Last edited by trilobyte: 05-26-2012 at 10:19 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old
05-26-2012, 10:16 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Powerplay is the biggest flaw. If the Rangers had a powerplay that was to be feared, for one teams would be afraid to take penalties against them, and two they'd score a whole lot more goals.
NO powerplay. Ain't that the truth.

It almost reached the point where I was afraid that an opponent would take a 1-0 lead in the first minute of play and spend the next 59 minutes short handed to win.

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05-27-2012, 02:47 PM
  #40
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Never using the same line twice.

Players can't develop chemistry if they don't play together.

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05-27-2012, 06:34 PM
  #41
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With a goalie like Lundqvist on the back end, and the great dcore we have, I wouldn't have put a huge emphasis on so many players having to block shots all the time. I don't think it's required, even with our roster. It really did wear them down. imo

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05-28-2012, 09:09 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Why aere Kreider and Stepan on the 3rd line and Dubinsky (especially) and Anisimov on the 2nd? Makes no sense.
1 - the chemistry of the pack line.
2 - Kreider is a rookie. Dubinsky was the Rangers leading scorer one year ago and is far more proven than Kreider. Why does it make no sense ?
3 - 2nd or 3rd line doesn't matter. Torts will give ice time to the lines that produce.

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05-28-2012, 09:20 AM
  #43
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There's a little bit of a chicken-egg conversation dealing with the stretch pass. In the series against Ottawa, the Rangers were having a really tough time dealing with the speed of their low forecheckers on the breakout. The way you prevent teams from sending so many forecheckers down low is by stretching it out a little bit. So that's what they did, and did successfully in games 6 and 7 of that series. What ended up happening is that it just became part of the team's game. The forwards started to fail to recognize when the stretch passes were having the desired effect. Instead of noting that the Capitals or Devils were sending in one forechecker and coming back to their own blueline to give the defenseman more outlet options, they setup in the neutral zone to receive a stretch pass. Since the opponents had players back, the stretch passes didn't work. And since the forwards weren't coming back to provide options either, the defensemen sometimes got pinned in the defensive zone anyway.

I think it's possible that Tortorella didn't react to that particular situation changing.

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05-28-2012, 11:58 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven Years View Post
Fixed the line up.

Without any major trade, if the line-up for next year is something like that, the Rangers will be a lot tougher to play IMO :

Hagelin - Richards - Gaborik
Kreider - Stepan - Callahan
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Yogan
Prust-Boyle-Fedotenko (Rupp)
I love Hagelin, but he's not a top 6 forward. And Yogan probably needs a year or 2 in the minors before he's ready.

I'm dreaming, but I'd love to have Ryan Clowe play with Richards and Gab.

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05-29-2012, 12:38 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post
I love Hagelin, but he's not a top 6 forward. And Yogan probably needs a year or 2 in the minors before he's ready.

I'm dreaming, but I'd love to have Ryan Clowe play with Richards and Gab.
38 points in 64 games.
Over a full season that's 48 points.

How many third or fourth liners score almost 50 points?

Yes, he had a rough first playoffs.

But honestly, how can you say definitively that a guy who scored at nearly a 50 point pace as a rookie is not a top 6 player?

His speed, alone makes him a threat for causing turnovers and getting to most 50/50 pucks. Even if he had the hockey IQ of Jody Shelley, he'd be able to put up points with that kind of speed.

I'm not suggesting we put all our eggs in one basket and expect Hagelin to carry us offensively, but you can't make wild baseless claims that he's NOT a top 6 player when he was the 5th highest scoring forward on the Rangers, and only played 64 games.

Time will tell what role he ultimately settles into, but he's produced at a top 6 level so far in his very brief NHL career. And he's got the attitude and work ethic of a player who works hard to continue to improve his game every year.

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05-29-2012, 06:29 AM
  #46
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They collapse to deep in there own zone so that they can block the lanes. This creates little puck possession and the more talented tesms eat that up.

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:21 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
38 points in 64 games.
Over a full season that's 48 points.

How many third or fourth liners score almost 50 points?

Yes, he had a rough first playoffs.

But honestly, how can you say definitively that a guy who scored at nearly a 50 point pace as a rookie is not a top 6 player?

His speed, alone makes him a threat for causing turnovers and getting to most 50/50 pucks. Even if he had the hockey IQ of Jody Shelley, he'd be able to put up points with that kind of speed.

I'm not suggesting we put all our eggs in one basket and expect Hagelin to carry us offensively, but you can't make wild baseless claims that he's NOT a top 6 player when he was the 5th highest scoring forward on the Rangers, and only played 64 games.

Time will tell what role he ultimately settles into, but he's produced at a top 6 level so far in his very brief NHL career. And he's got the attitude and work ethic of a player who works hard to continue to improve his game every year.

I started off my post by saying that I love Hagelin. I liked him from the day one when we drafted him, and I heard he was a hard working, two way player with great speed. He's well on his way to fulfilling his promise, and he will be a valuable player for the Rangers for years to come. So please don't take my comments as a knock on Hagelin as a player.

I simply don't think he has the hands nor the physical presence to be a consistent offensive threat. You're right that his speed alone will create offensive opportunities. But that describes a great 3rd liner and not necessarily a top 6 scorer. You cite his 38 points in 64 games, and I agree it is impressive for a rookie that started the year in the minors. But at least some of those points came because he got a good amount of icetime on the Rangers' top line with Richards and Gaborik. I don't see Hagelin, as good a skater as he is, as the type of player that makes the Richards-Gaborik duo dangerous. I mentioned Ryan Clowe (not that he's available or that he's a great scorer either) because I think a player like that would make Richards and Gaborik more formidable. Being the 5th highest scoring forward on a team whose glaring weakness is their offense is not really a selling point. Rather, I see it as an indication that the Rangers need to improve production from their top lines.

I don't think I'm making "wild baseless claims" here. The original post to which I was replying had Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik listed as the Rangers' #1 line and claimed that even without a major trade, the "Rangers will be a lot tougher to play." Surely Kreider will help, but it would be a major surprise if Yogan is ready as the post suggested. But if the Rangers stand pat, and go into next season with Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik as their #1 line again, then I'd bet their offensive woes will continue.

I'm a Hagelin fan too, and I think he's a player you can win with. But if the Rangers are to go further, I think they'll have to upgrade their offensive talent.

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Old
05-30-2012, 08:48 AM
  #48
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My biggest Torts gripe? Too much boards play, as others have stated. There's never anyone in between the circles. NEVER! Worst offensive system I've ever seen, and it needs to change.

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05-30-2012, 08:52 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Reijo R View Post
My biggest Torts gripe? Too much boards play, as others have stated. There's never anyone in between the circles. NEVER! Worst offensive system I've ever seen, and it needs to change.
Is that an indictment on Tortorella's system, or the level of talent/creativity on the roster?

I feel like Im having the Tom Renney discussion again, only with better players this time around (but not good enough for the offensive magic some people are seeking)

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05-30-2012, 10:12 AM
  #50
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i have zero problems with Torts. 95% of the time I agree with him. Sometimes his line combinations are head scratchers, but thats about it. Love the guy. The team worked harder than any team ive ever seen as a Ranger fan. from start to finish they gave it everything they have. Torts deserves his Jack Adams nomination.

Get Torts some more finishers.

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