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Old
05-27-2012, 03:18 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Husko View Post
Please see the team's record with and without Matt Ellis from 2008-2012.
Right because our top 2 minute eating d-men and a 4th line center who played 8 minutes a night are a good comparison. If you couldn't see with your own eyes how different the team was without those two players then it is not worth discussing further.

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05-29-2012, 01:29 PM
  #152
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A list of defenseman who are easily better then Andrej Sekera. Went team by team basis on determining if they are more skilled/productive then Sekera.

Lubomir Visnovsky ANA
Francois Beauchemin ANA
Zdeno Chara BOS
Tyler Myers BUF
Christian Ehrhoff BUF
Jay Bouwmeester CGY
Mark Giordano CGY
Joni Pitkanen CAR
Duncan Keith CHI
Brent Seabrook CHI
Niclas Hjalmarsson CHI
Erik Johnson COL
Jack Johnson CBJ
James Wisniewski CBJ
Alex Goligoski DAL
Niklas Lidstrom DET
Niklas Kronwall DET
Ryan Whitney EDM
Brian Campbell FLA
Dmitry Kukilov FLA
Drew Doughty LA
Willie Mitchell LA
Tom Gilbert MIN
Andrei Markov MTL
PK Subban MTL
Shea Weber NSH
Ryan Suter NSH
Anton Volchenkov NJ
Mark Streit NYI
Travis Hamonic NYI
Ryan McDonagh NYR
Dan Girardi NYR
Marc Staal NYR
Erik Karlsson OTT
Sergei Gonchar OTT
Filip Kuba OTT
Braydon Coburn PHI
Chris Pronger PHI (If healthy)
Matt Carle PHI
Kimmo Timonen PHI
Keith Yandle PHX
Oliver Ekman-Larsson PHX
Kris Letang PIT
Paul Martin PIT
Zbynek Michalek PIT
Dan Boyle SJ
Brent Burns SJ
Marc-Edouard Vlasic SJ
Alex Pietrangelo STL
Kevin Shattenkirk STL
Victor Hedman TB
Eric Brewer TB
Dion Phaneuf TOR
Jake Gardiner TOR
Alex Edler VAN
Sami Salo VAN
Dan Hamhuis VAN
Kevin Bieksa VAN
Dennis Wideman WSH
Mike Green WSH
John Carlson WSH
Dustin Byfuglien WPG
Tobias Enstrom WPG


This is over 60 defenseman who are hands down better then Sekera.Sekera is NOT a top 40 d-man and not even a top 60 d-man.And no he wasn't a top 40 defenseman last season.You can give me stats like shots allowed like that means anything.Does it distinguish the shots he did let up as up close difficult to save ones?Or ones coming from the point that are easily turned away?Not only is he not a top pairing d-man, there are several dozen d-men on par or better then Sekera that I didn't list.

Sekera is a good #4 d-man.He isn't a top pairing one.If Sekera was a top 40 d-man, and if we have a Vezina winning goalie in net along with an offense that finished ahead of 4 playoff teams, along with the WC finalists then there would be no excuse not to make the playoffs.Sekera wasn't the best and he won't be the best, last year, next year, any year.He isn't that good.

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05-29-2012, 01:32 PM
  #153
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Sekera is in an other stratosphere defensively to half that list, which, coincidentally is the entire point of this ******* thread. I mean, Paul Martin, Matt Carle and Sergei Gonchar? FFS...

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05-29-2012, 01:39 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
A list of defenseman who are easily better then Andrej Sekera. Went team by team basis on determining if they are more skilled/productive then Sekera.

Francois Beauchemin ANA
Niclas Hjalmarsson CHI
Erik Johnson COL
Jack Johnson CBJ
James Wisniewski CBJ
Ryan Whitney EDM
Dmitry Kukilov FLA
Tom Gilbert MIN
PK Subban MTL
Travis Hamonic NYI
Sergei Gonchar OTT
Filip Kuba OTT
Oliver Ekman-Larsson PHX
Paul Martin PIT
Jake Gardiner TOR
Sami Salo VAN
Dennis Wideman WSH
John Carlson WSH
The above are all debateable.

Some of them are young guys who are still developing and likely have a higher ceiling than Sekera, but as of this particular moment in time are not better than Sekera. Carlson, Hamonic, Gardiner, Kulikov for instance.

Some are veterans on the decline who WERE better than Sekera, but are not anymore. Sami Salo is not the same player he used to be for instance, and Paul Martin fell off the deep ledge this past year.

And some of them make no sense whatsoever. (Tom Gilbert? really? He had 1 good year, got paid, and has been **** since then...for a supposed offensive D-man who isn't really that good in his own zone, his point totals are completely lackluster)

But this list completely missed the point of the thread. The thread is not about Sekera being the best D-man ever, it is about him having a better season than the other Sabres and his season being in the top 40 last year. Certainly there are defensemen whom one would expect to be higher than Sekera but who had down years or what not, but if you rank individual 2011-12 seasons by a D-man, Sekera's measures up very, very well. (and better than Ehrhoffs 2011-12 season and Myers 2011-12 season).

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05-30-2012, 01:18 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
A list of defenseman who are easily better then Andrej Sekera. Went team by team basis on determining if they are more skilled/productive then Sekera.

Lubomir Visnovsky ANA - yes
Francois Beauchemin ANA - lol no. Not the same player from ANA Cup run
Zdeno Chara BOS - yes
Tyler Myers BUF - yes (but weaker season, which is the point of the thread)
Christian Ehrhoff BUF - same as Myers
Jay Bouwmeester CGY - perpetual loser, but whatever floats your boar
Mark Giordano CGY - debatable
Joni Pitkanen CAR - at this point, debatable
Duncan Keith CHI - yes
Brent Seabrook CHI - yes
Niclas Hjalmarsson CHI - debatable
Erik Johnson COL - yes
Jack Johnson CBJ - no
James Wisniewski CBJ - no
Alex Goligoski DAL - no
Niklas Lidstrom DET - yes
Niklas Kronwall DET - yes
Ryan Whitney EDM - no
Brian Campbell FLA - yes
Dmitry Kukilov FLA - no (more potential)
Drew Doughty LA - yes
Willie Mitchell LA -no
Tom Gilbert MIN - no
Andrei Markov MTL - yes (except he hasn't played in 12 years)
PK Subban MTL - debatable (overhyped)
Shea Weber NSH - yes
Ryan Suter NSH - yes
Anton Volchenkov NJ - no
Mark Streit NYI - debatable
Travis Hamonic NYI - no (more potential)
Ryan McDonagh NYR - debatable
Dan Girardi NYR - debatable (the guy was a dud in every playoff year prior to this one)
Marc Staal NYR - yes
Erik Karlsson OTT - yes
Sergei Gonchar OTT - no
Filip Kuba OTT - no
Braydon Coburn PHI - not really, no
Chris Pronger PHI (If healthy) - yes (but he's done)
Matt Carle PHI - no
Kimmo Timonen PHI - yes
Keith Yandle PHX - yes
Oliver Ekman-Larsson PHX - yes
Kris Letang PIT - yes
Paul Martin PIT - lol no
Zbynek Michalek PIT - yes
Dan Boyle SJ - yes
Brent Burns SJ - yes
Marc-Edouard Vlasic SJ - debatable
Alex Pietrangelo STL - yes
Kevin Shattenkirk STL - debatable (potential's there)
Victor Hedman TB - no (more potential)
Eric Brewer TB - IMO nah, at worst debatable
Dion Phaneuf TOR - yeah I guess
Jake Gardiner TOR - no
Alex Edler VAN - yes
Sami Salo VAN - no
Dan Hamhuis VAN - yes
Kevin Bieksa VAN - yes
Dennis Wideman WSH - no
Mike Green WSH - yes
John Carlson WSH - debatable
Dustin Byfuglien WPG - lol no...
Tobias Enstrom WPG - yes


This is over 60 defenseman who are hands down better then Sekera.
Hands down better according to who?
I checked your list, and the number of defensemen who are "hands down better" dwindles down to about 30.

But again, as other people have repeatedly said, that's not the point of the thread.

On paper, Myers and Ehrhoff are better, but Rej had a better season.

How the hell is that so difficult to understand, seriously?

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05-30-2012, 06:57 AM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto View Post
Hands down better according to who?
I checked your list, and the number of defensemen who are "hands down better" dwindles down to about 30.

But again, as other people have repeatedly said, that's not the point of the thread.

On paper, Myers and Ehrhoff are better, but Rej had a better season.

How the hell is that so difficult to understand, seriously?
Because the OP along with a handful of other people state that he is the sabres best defenceman as the opening post stats.

Nothing about best season, or other defenceman having a poor season.

I said it 10 times if Sekera plays as hour best defenceman next year we are in big trouble as we were this year. If people want to say Sekera had the best DEFENSIVE stats then sure but that still does not make him our best defenceman.

I think the problem is people like Jame and another guy who also stated he is the best defender on this team going into the future, is they cant determine the difference between best defenceman and better season. Is it so hard to comprehend that Myers and Ehrhoff are more valuable to this team then Sekera is?
The other problem with Sekera is this is his first consistent season and he had to step back offensively. Where previous seasons he would be all over the ice. Sekera still has yet to define himself and until he puts another solid season together I think the jury is still out on him being a top 4 defenceman.
Is it so hard to understand Myers Plays big minutes, gets points and plays a strong defensive game. But keep plugging those stats cause corsi rating is what GMs base salaries and trades on instead of actual talent and quality of the player.

I asked Jame who he would rather have on the team, Myers, Ehrhoff or Sekera and he flat out refused to answer so what does that tell you.


On a side note what does our top 4 look like in 2 or 3 years?
Myers
Ehrhoff
McNabb
Pysyk(projected 2-4 spot)
I could also see JGL being a top four defenceman and let see we get at the 12 spot could someone like Reinhart, Trouba, Määtä or Ceci, all project better then Sekera
If sekera is on this team in 3 years I would be very suprised
Just saying that would be the projected top 4....


Last edited by heartsabres*: 05-30-2012 at 07:04 AM.
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05-30-2012, 07:43 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Because the OP along with a handful of other people state that he is the sabres best defenceman as the opening post stats.

Nothing about best season, or other defenceman having a poor season.

I said it 10 times if Sekera plays as hour best defenceman next year we are in big trouble as we were this year. If people want to say Sekera had the best DEFENSIVE stats then sure but that still does not make him our best defenceman.

I think the problem is people like Jame and another guy who also stated he is the best defender on this team going into the future, is they cant determine the difference between best defenceman and better season. Is it so hard to comprehend that Myers and Ehrhoff are more valuable to this team then Sekera is?
The other problem with Sekera is this is his first consistent season and he had to step back offensively. Where previous seasons he would be all over the ice. Sekera still has yet to define himself and until he puts another solid season together I think the jury is still out on him being a top 4 defenceman.
Is it so hard to understand Myers Plays big minutes, gets points and plays a strong defensive game. But keep plugging those stats cause corsi rating is what GMs base salaries and trades on instead of actual talent and quality of the player.

I asked Jame who he would rather have on the team, Myers, Ehrhoff or Sekera and he flat out refused to answer so what does that tell you.


On a side note what does our top 4 look like in 2 or 3 years?
Myers
Ehrhoff
McNabb
Pysyk(projected 2-4 spot)
I could also see JGL being a top four defenceman and let see we get at the 12 spot could someone like Reinhart, Trouba, Määtä or Ceci, all project better then Sekera
If Sekera is on this team in 3 years I would be very suprised
Just saying that would be the projected top 4....
Again you're making the assumption that Sekera had an average year and all of our other defensemen had bad years. Not the case at all. Sekera had a great year. Great, but not at all out of line with the progression of his career so far. It would be nice if other players on the team like Myers were clearly ahead of him. But Myers is playing decently for a 3rd year defenseman and Sekera is clearly ahead of him. Why is this a problem?

Sekera and Brayden McNabb are both 3rd rounders, why is McNabb in the top 4 but Sekera is lunchmeat? Sekera was drafted in 2004, and you're still looking at him in terms of potential. Jame is talking about the player we have today.

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05-30-2012, 07:52 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by punkr0x View Post
Again you're making the assumption that Sekera had an average year and all of our other defensemen had bad years. Not the case at all. Sekera had a great year. Great, but not at all out of line with the progression of his career so far. It would be nice if other players on the team like Myers were clearly ahead of him. But Myers is playing decently for a 3rd year defenseman and Sekera is clearly ahead of him. Why is this a problem?

Sekera and Brayden McNabb are both 3rd rounders, why is McNabb in the top 4 but Sekera is lunchmeat? Sekera was drafted in 2004, and you're still looking at him in terms of potential. Jame is talking about the player we have today.
Not at all and to make such a statement means you dont know what I am saying. If the guy had an average year then he would be our best defenceman! I am making the assumption Sekera had a career year...in which he did. Myers had his worst season as a sabre and well Ehrhoff is hard to judge since he was injured and played to about expectations.
Plus these are not really my expectations, they are what is on the table.

As for Myers he didnt have a good year, most reports would give him a C, and it is not really relevant what year the player is in what counts is expectations and meeting those expectations.

McNabb is top 4 for ovious reasons, Strength, Height, Offensive capablilities, physical and where he is projected to land. I believe Sekera does not have much more in him then what we have seen


Last edited by heartsabres*: 05-30-2012 at 08:00 AM.
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05-30-2012, 08:34 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Because the OP along with a handful of other people state that he is the sabres best defenceman as the opening post stats.
the title of the thread is "Sekera WAS the Sabres best defensemen"

the very first line of the thread is
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Go ahead and rank these 6 defensemen based on their total performance this past season... if you come out with a ranking that doesn't have Sekera as #1, then you're doing it wrong.
Quote:
Nothing about best season, or other defenceman having a poor season.
then i posted all the stats from THIS PAST SEASON

and pointed out the roles they had THIS PAST SEASON

and who was successful, who was sheltered, who got top matchups... THIS PAST SEASON

Quote:
I said it 10 times if Sekera plays as hour best defenceman next year we are in big trouble as we were this year.
Yea, you've said that before... it didn't make any sense then, either.

Quote:
If people want to say Sekera had the best DEFENSIVE stats then sure but that still does not make him our best defenceman.
Sekera had the best ALL AROUND stats... taking EVERYTHING into account. making him the best defensemen last year.

Quote:
I think the problem is people like Jame and another guy who also stated he is the best defender on this team going into the future, is they cant determine the difference between best defenceman and better season.
it's pretty clear that we aren't the ones with a problem.


Quote:
Is it so hard to comprehend that Myers and Ehrhoff are more valuable to this team then Sekera is?
no one is talking about value in this thread

Quote:

The other problem with Sekera is this is his first consistent season and he had to step back offensively.
not sure why that's a problem...
he took a step back offensively because he was put in a new, shutdown role...

Quote:
Where previous seasons he would be all over the ice. Sekera still has yet to define himself and until he puts another solid season together I think the jury is still out on him being a top 4 defenceman.
Myers has yet to define himself then? since he only had 1 consistent season? is the jury still out on Myers?

Quote:
Is it so hard to understand Myers Plays big minutes, gets points and plays a strong defensive game. But keep plugging those stats cause corsi rating is what GMs base salaries and trades on instead of actual talent and quality of the player.
Myers played big sheltered minutes this year, as opposed to the previous 2 years. The irony, is that Sekera took Myers top pair/shut down role from him this year.

Quote:
I asked Jame who he would rather have on the team, Myers, Ehrhoff or Sekera and he flat out refused to answer so what does that tell you.
id rather have Myers
good thing we have all 3


Last edited by Hank Chinaski: 05-30-2012 at 08:56 AM. Reason: flaming
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05-30-2012, 08:44 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Not at all and to make such a statement means you dont know what I am saying. If the guy had an average year then he would be our best defenceman! I am making the assumption Sekera had a career year...in which he did. Myers had his worst season as a sabre and well Ehrhoff is hard to judge since he was injured and played to about expectations.
Plus these are not really my expectations, they are what is on the table.


As for Myers he didnt have a good year, most reports would give him a C, and it is not really relevant what year the player is in what counts is expectations and meeting those expectations.

im trying to make sense of this... you are making an assumption and then verifying that assumption in the same sentence?

what expectations are on the table?

hmmm, so according to you Sekera had a career year... Myers had a "C" type of year... and Ehrhoff didn't meet expectations... so who was the Sabres best defensemen LAST YEAR?

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05-30-2012, 08:45 AM
  #161
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@punkr0x

Just wanted to point out that you said Sekera is clearly ahead of Myers. What does that mean? On the depth chart? In terms of talent? In terms of impact on the team? And I mean last year, because I don't see him being ahead of Myers in any of these.

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05-30-2012, 08:46 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
the title of the thread is "Sekera WAS the Sabres best defensemen"

the very first line of the thread is




then i posted all the stats from THIS PAST SEASON

and pointed out the roles they had THIS PAST SEASON

and who was successful, who was sheltered, who got top matchups... THIS PAST SEASON


Yea, you've said that before... it didn't make any sense then, either.



Sekera had the best ALL AROUND stats... taking EVERYTHING into account. making him the best defensemen last year.



it's pretty clear that we aren't the ones with a problem.




no one is talking about value in this thread



not sure why that's a problem...
he took a step back offensively because he was put in a new, shutdown role...



Myers has yet to define himself then? since he only had 1 consistent season? is the jury still out on Myers?



Myers played big sheltered minutes this year, as opposed to the previous 2 years. The irony, is that Sekera took Myers top pair/shut down role from him this year.



id rather have Myers
good thing we have all 3
The problem with Sekera taking a step back offensively is two fold, if he tries to be more offensive or the coach asks him to be more offensive which could be the case since Lindy Ruff´s system calls for the Defence to be more active he could regress.

Sekera didnt have the best all around stats, he had the best defensive stats.I am talking about value in this forum or are you the only one who decides what is talked about.


Last edited by Hank Chinaski: 05-30-2012 at 09:00 AM. Reason: qep/flaming
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05-30-2012, 08:55 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
im trying to make sense of this... you are making an assumption and then verifying that assumption in the same sentence?

what expectations are on the table?

hmmm, so according to you Sekera had a career year... Myers had a "C" type of year... and Ehrhoff didn't meet expectations... so who was the Sabres best defensemen LAST YEAR?
Are you asking my opinion just to argue about it? Do you know what the definition of insane is? Cause it is about the fourth time you have asked me the question and I am beginning to doubt mental the stability of....

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05-30-2012, 08:57 AM
  #164
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I don't care to read through this thread, but THIS defensemen analysis was posted weeks ago, so sorry if it's a repost.
Quote:
On your x-axis, you have Corsi Relative Quality of Competition, which measures Average Relative Corsi of opposing players, weighted head-to-head by ice time. The further right, the better the opposition faced.

On your y-axis, you have Zone Start Adjusted Corsi, which weights a player's productivity based on the regularity -- or, irregularity -- of offensive zone starts. Players that start a ton of their shifts in the offensive zone will naturally have more scoring opportunities, and subsequently, more points. Conversely, defensive defensemen often start their shifts in the defensive zone, and have less opportunity at point-scoring, effectively hurting their Corsi. Hence, the weight via the following formula:
Simplified Zone Start Adjusted Corsi = Corsi/60 - (Ozone% - 50)*0.18, courtesy [and explained] Driving the Net.
Lastly, the size of the bubble will indicate points per game. Considering I've limited the bubble graph to players with no less than forty games played, the averages aren't going to be heavily skewed. Erik Karlsson's a bowling ball, and Robin Regehr is a blip on the radar.
Quote:
Quote:
Buffalo Sabres: It shouldn't be ultimately surprising to see Sabres' defensemen struggling against the curve, as they lacked point-production from their blue liners for the majority of the season. Christian Ehrhoff was the bright spot for a Buffalo Sabres blue line that struggled from time to time, and his production in his first sixty-six games should -- to date -- warrant the 10Y, $40M deal inked last July. But, how 'bout some love for Andrej Sekera? Reggie made 67.5% what Regehr did last year, yet played well in tough minutes. His only downside, as evidenced by the size of the bubble, was point-scoring. Thirteen points in sixty-nine games just isn't enough.

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05-30-2012, 09:01 AM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Sekera didnt have the best all around stats, he had the best defensive stats.
100% correct. This entire thread is skewed by the different roles they play and the failure to take that into account. Myers and Ehrhoff are asked to jump into the play while Sekera did it far less. Of course their d stats are going to suffer. If Sekera were to play a similar role his stats wouldn't be as good.

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05-30-2012, 09:11 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
100% correct. This entire thread is skewed by the different roles they play and the failure to take that into account. Myers and Ehrhoff are asked to jump into the play while Sekera did it far less. Of course their d stats are going to suffer. If Sekera were to play a similar role his stats wouldn't be as good.
Sekera jumps into the play quite a bit. He doesn't have the production to show for it, but he often jumps into the rush. His skating ability gives him those opportunities. Are you going to try to quantify how many times each player jumps into the rush?

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05-30-2012, 09:17 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Are you asking my opinion just to argue about it? Do you know what the definition of insane is? Cause it is about the fourth time you have asked me the question and I am beginning to doubt mental the stability of....
it's actually the first time i've asked you the question.
who's mental stability should we be discussing?

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05-30-2012, 09:19 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
The problem with Sekera taking a step back offensively is two fold, if he tries to be more offensive or the coach asks him to be more offensive which could be the case since Lindy Ruff´s system calls for the Defence to be more active he could regress.

Sekera didnt have the best all around stats, he had the best defensive stats.I am talking about value in this forum or are you the only one who decides what is talked about.
yes, Sekera had the best All Around stats... the evidence is on page 1, post #1 of this thread.

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05-30-2012, 09:25 AM
  #169
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Sekera may have been our best d-man last year, but I will say this:

If sekera is our best d-man next year, we won't be a playoff team (again)

The issue isn't with Sekera, he's an ideal 2nd pairing guy. Can move the puck, pretty good in his own zone. I have zero qualms keeping him. But, if Myers doesn't play like a top pairing D-man, this team struggles, period.

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05-30-2012, 09:26 AM
  #170
stokes84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Sekera jumps into the play quite a bit. He doesn't have the production to show for it, but he often jumps into the rush. His skating ability gives him those opportunities. Are you going to try to quantify how many times each player jumps into the rush?
I couldn't possibly. But would you really argue he joined the rush even remotely as often as the other two? Yes, he did on occassion. But Ehrhoff and Myers did it regularly.

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05-30-2012, 09:26 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
100% correct. This entire thread is skewed by the different roles they play and the failure to take that into account. Myers and Ehrhoff are asked to jump into the play while Sekera did it far less. Of course their d stats are going to suffer. If Sekera were to play a similar role his stats wouldn't be as good.
It absolutely is taken into account

it's fun to watch you attempt to make the "offensive" role into the more difficult role to play... that's pretty funny stuff

Going into this season, Ruff talked a lot about needing a shut down pair. Many assumed that meant they needed to find someone to pair with Myers... so along came Regehr. They tried them together early and for whatever reason, they broke it up. Soon they put Regehr and Sekera together, and that was the Shut down pairing.

there is not a more difficult role in all of hockey, then the one Sekera played this past year

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05-30-2012, 09:31 AM
  #172
SackTastic
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I have the same problems with these ratings as I do with the higher end baseball metrics.

When you start taking derivative statistics, then performing additional transformations and derivations, you start to lose all value and meaning.

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05-30-2012, 09:34 AM
  #173
BuiltTagonTough
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Not at all and to make such a statement means you dont know what I am saying. If the guy had an average year then he would be our best defenceman! I am making the assumption Sekera had a career year...in which he did. Myers had his worst season as a sabre and well Ehrhoff is hard to judge since he was injured and played to about expectations.
Plus these are not really my expectations, they are what is on the table.

As for Myers he didnt have a good year, most reports would give him a C, and it is not really relevant what year the player is in what counts is expectations and meeting those expectations.

McNabb is top 4 for ovious reasons, Strength, Height, Offensive capablilities, physical and where he is projected to land. I believe Sekera does not have much more in him then what we have seen
So youre admitting in this post that you think Sekera had a career year, Myers had an off year, and Ehrhoff had a poor year.

Making Sekera our best defenseman LAST SEASON. Which is the entire premise of the thread.

So what are we arguing about?

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05-30-2012, 09:35 AM
  #174
Jame
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I couldn't possibly. But would you really argue he joined the rush even remotely as often as the other two? Yes, he did on occassion. But Ehrhoff and Myers did it regularly.


id break out some stats on offensive zone starts / off zone finish.... but i know stats isnt really your thing.

Im sure Lindy Ruff (who's entire system is based around the defense joining the rush, and pinching with regularity).... he was probably like "hey, andrej, i know you have the most defensive zone starts, and the best puck possession on the team... against the toughest competition... and i also know that you are an excellent skater... but please, DON'T RUSH THE PUCK, and DON'T play the system the way i designed it...."


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Old
05-30-2012, 09:39 AM
  #175
struckbyaparkedcar
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My one issue with Jame's arguments here is his interchangeable use of "shutdown pair" and "top pair." To me, a top pair is the first option in both key offensive and defensive situations (Sieds-Chara, Suter-Weber, Coli-Pietro, etc) and a shutdown pair is obviously more limited to important defensive matchups (Hamhuis-Bieksa, Allen-Gleason, Alzner-Carlson).

That being said, with how Ruff coaches, the shutdown pairing is the most important pairing because Lindy doesn't really use a checking line (Gaustad in his own zone before the trade, Pominville strength on strength otherwise) and Sekera's success as a shutdown defenseman allowed Myers and Ehrhoff to play more focused offensive roles (Myers getting back on track/being dominant against the weakest competition of his career).

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