I haven't paid really close attention to this thread, so this may have already been discussed.
Anyone think Dan Boyle would be available? What would San Jose want?
I doubt it, when asked at the end of the year about potential changes he wasn't worried about moving because he has a NTC or NMC and has no intentions of leaving.
Oilers trade the #1 overall this year to Columbus for the LA 1st that the Blue Jackets got in the Carter trade (~#30 pick this year) PLUS the Columbus 2nd rounder this year (31st) plus the Blue Jackets 1st rounder in 2013.
The Oilers draft at #30, #31, #32 this year and next year they'll have two 1st rounders in a strong draft year (and the Columbus 1st next year will very likely be a lotto pick as well).
Columbus then uses the #1 and #2 overall picks they have from this year to trade for roster players to help them win NOW... which they need to do. They need roster players that can play and that can help the team start winning to put people in the seats in their rink... not prospects and draft picks.
Could that scenario happen? Would Columbus do it? Would the Oilers do it? Maybe.
Oilers trade the #1 overall this year to Columbus for the LA 1st that the Blue Jackets got in the Carter trade (~#30 pick this year) PLUS the Columbus 2nd rounder this year (31st) plus the Blue Jackets 1st rounder in 2013.
The Oilers draft at #30, #31, #32 this year and next year they'll have two 1st rounders in a strong draft year (and the Columbus 1st next year will very likely be a lotto pick as well).
Columbus then uses the #1 and #2 overall picks they have from this year to trade for roster players to help them win NOW... which they need to do. They need roster players that can play and that can help the team start winning to put people in the seats in their rink... not prospects and draft picks.
Could that scenario happen? Would Columbus do it? Would the Oilers do it? Maybe.
You're joking right? Give up the 1st overall pick on a speculation pick for next year when Columbus could improve a fair bit?
The oilers should be keeping #1 overall and doing whatever they can to either trade back up into the top 10 or create a package to get NHL ready players now.
Could that scenario happen? Would Columbus do it? Would the Oilers do it? Maybe.
I don't see why the Oilers would ever do that. They trade 1st overall this year, which will likely yield a player that can provide immediate impact, for essentially two picks in the 2nd round (which historically yields only ~30% NHL players), and an unknown pick. If CBJ gets even average goaltending and some nice pieces for Nash I could see them being on the lottery fringe or even outside it.
Why trade the guarantee (our 1st overall) for the chance to be in the lottery again next year? Would delay the rebuild and could end up being a pretty awful deal. The only reason I think you want to do that is because you feel that having just a chance at Mackinnon/Jones/etc. is worth another year of sucking and the 1st overall that we actually do own this year.
Why not trade MPS and Hemsky to Washington for their
11th and 16th. Might have to add a tiny but, but seems fair.
Wash Hemsky (good contract) to replace Semin
Wash MPS has more potential then anyone at 11-16
Oils then trade 11/16th pick (depends what makes deal happen) + 2013 1st to CBJ + Barker , and take Galy at 2nd.
CBJ get a 1st rounder in great draft year next year potential top 10 if Oils falter again,
CBJ get Good D-man that hasn't lived up in Edmonton, and
CBJ get 1st (16th/11th) rounder this year.
Oils then pick BPA at 11/16th
So yo get Yak, Galy, Reinhart at 11th?? (BPA to fit needs),
and it costs you
MPS, Hemsky, Barker, 1st round '13( hopefully 18 or worse)
Good trades??
Last edited by questhockey: 05-30-2012 at 09:27 AM.
Reason: mistake
You're joking right? Give up the 1st overall pick on a speculation pick for next year when Columbus could improve a fair bit?
The oilers should be keeping #1 overall and doing whatever they can to either trade back up into the top 10 or create a package to get NHL ready players now.
I want them to draft Yakupov as well but I just have a strong feeling they'll deal the 1st overal pick somehow... and Columbus is an obvious trading partner... hence the possible scenario above.
CBJ isn't going to trade their 2nd overall for anything less than a star. Maybe they move down a spot or two, but not 11. They need a franchise building block.
Why not trade MPS and Hemsky to Washington for their
11th and 16th. Might have to add a tiny but, but seems fair.
Wash Hemsky (good contract) to replace Semin
Wash MPS has more potential then anyone at 11-16
Oils then trade 11/16th pick (depends what makes deal happen) + 2013 1st to CBJ + Barker , and take Galy at 2nd.
CBJ get a 1st rounder in great draft year next year potential top 10 if Oils falter again,
CBJ get Good D-man that hasn't lived up in Edmonton, and
CBJ get 1st (16th/11th) rounder this year.
Oils then pick BPA at 11/16th
So yo get Yak, Galy, Reinhart at 11th?? (BPA to fit needs),
and it costs you
MPS, Hemsky, Barker, 1st round '13( hopefully 18 or worse)
Good trades??
Appreciate the thought that went into this but Barker has about as much trade value as the dead magpie outside my office building, haha.
Who care's about junior records. It's about predicting who will be the better player in 5 years, and without a doubt Galchenyuk will be. Gagner doesn't fit this teams needs, we have enough small forwards. Gagner isn't even in the top20 for second line centers in the league, and besides his magical 8point performance he hasn't shown anything. He hasn't shown that he can be consistent. Sometimes he looks like a #2 line center, but most times he doesn't even look like he should be playing in the top6. On how many teams is Gagner a top 6 player, or even a 2nd line center?
Fail on your part here. Gags was 41st overall for C's in pts (actually tied for 37th).
I want them to draft Yakupov as well but I just have a strong feeling they'll deal the 1st overal pick somehow... and Columbus is an obvious trading partner... hence the possible scenario above.
The scenario above is horrible for the Oilers, just horrible. Who knows? Columbus could come out of nowhere and compete for a playoff spot next year, you never know in today's NHL and then the Oilers will be stuck with a bunch of mediocre picks and the Jackets will have Yakupov and Murray, awful awful proposal and did i mention that it's awful.
Sure, the Jackets could be awful again next season but it's still too risky to do such a deal.
If there is a deal with Columbus, it will be for a swap of the #1 and #2 picks + maybe a 2nd rounder from Columbus. There is no way that they deal with Columbus without getting the #2 pick, the Oilers brass seems to be infactuated with Murray.
i would love to see the oilers move up into the top 10 and get which ever one of Trouba, Reinhart, Dumba falls in the draft, one of them will probably be available around 8-10. not at the expense of the #1 pick though, you pick Yak and move on to the next move, IMO the scouting staff should have their boards working hard on who will be there at 32 because the first pick is done and shouldnt be thought about anymore.
For #2 C's that would place him in the top 10....7th actually if you consider there should be 30 #1 C's.
That would actually make Gagner as a fact a legit #2 C.
To answer your question, he would be the #2 C for at least 20 teams in the league.
Yep...IMO another example of how we as fans can have an idealized notion of what a 2nd line center should be, even though the facts state something altogether different when you actually take the time to look at what the other 29 teams had in place for their 2nd line centers.
Yep...IMO another example of how we as fans can have an idealized notion of what a 2nd line center should be, even though the facts state something altogether different when you actually take the time to look at what the other 29 teams had in place for their 2nd line centers.
There is no denying that Gagner has skill. When he's playing with confidence he looks like a first liner. His biggest problem is consistency - he's very streaky. But I suppose if he was consistently at his best then he would be a 1C.
He was tied for 106th in the NHL in points this year - so assuming 90 1st liners, that puts him in the upper echelon of 2nd liners. And of those 105 that had more points than him, 93 had more icetime. He was almost 50% on the dot (seems to be improving in that area), was a team best +5, and despite 5 NHL seasons under his belt, is still just 22!
With Hall, Eberle, RNH, and Yakupov, I don't know that we can afford to have a Jordan Staal type as our 2C. Why not keep a guy that likes being here, is a home grown talent, seems to have a great attitude, and looks like a lock for 15-20 goals, 45-50 points.
Any objective measure you look at puts him close to the very top of the list for 2nd liners, almost 1st line numbers. If we can have that for decent $ on our 2nd line, why not?
I don't see why the Oilers would ever do that. They trade 1st overall this year, which will likely yield a player that can provide immediate impact, for essentially two picks in the 2nd round (which historically yields only ~30% NHL players), and an unknown pick. If CBJ gets even average goaltending and some nice pieces for Nash I could see them being on the lottery fringe or even outside it.
Why trade the guarantee (our 1st overall) for the chance to be in the lottery again next year? Would delay the rebuild and could end up being a pretty awful deal. The only reason I think you want to do that is because you feel that having just a chance at Mackinnon/Jones/etc. is worth another year of sucking and the 1st overall that we actually do own this year.
THIS.
There is no need to delay this rebuild any longer. We have to start getting better NOW. We have a window of opportunity that has opened. It won't stay open forever. If this team is talking about Mackinnon/Jones for next year, then the rebuild is failing.
The ONLY way I'd see a trade down happen is if some significant pieces are coming back. Not magic beans. (well some magic beans) But mostly good young talented NHLers with elite potential. If not, no dice.
We're not desperate to trade this pick. Nor should we be.
Yep...IMO another example of how we as fans can have an idealized notion of what a 2nd line center should be, even though the facts state something altogether different when you actually take the time to look at what the other 29 teams had in place for their 2nd line centers.
The issue with that is quite a few C's aren't on that list and are listed as wingers. IIRC, it didn't count guys like Giroux as C's.
Apart from that, if we are to compete in the West, our strength down the middle must be improved.
Looking at the top-10 teams in the West in terms of C depth:
Van: Sedin-Kesler
St. Louis: Backes-Berglund
Phoenix: Vermette-Hanzal
Nashville: Fisher-Legwand
Det: Datsyuk-Franzen
Chicago: Toews-Kane/Sharp/Bolland
San Jose: Thornton-Pavs/Couture
LA: Kopitar-Richards
Calgary: Jokinen-Backlund(??)
Dallas: Benn-Riberio
That is the top-10 teams in the West alone. From that, the teams we are better than down the middle are Calgary, Nashville and Phoenix. The latter two have C's which are much better two-way players than ours. This is also not including teams like Colorado which have Duchene-Statsny-O'Reilly down the middle or Anaheim with Getzlaf-Etem in the future.
If we are to compete in the West, we must be able to match up with that type of depth down the middle.
Now is it possible Gagner develops into a C that can play behind RNH, absolutely, he's not super old by any means. the biggest problem for Gagner is his puck protection. From his first year, his ability to protect the puck hasn't readily developed as you would've liked to see. While his defensive ability and FO's did get better last season, he still far too easy to remove from the puck. And to compete in the west, you absolutely cannot have that. Especially if the new coach implements a puck possession system to suit our young talents.
__________________ <-- Credit goes to The Nemesis.
It is not a points factor as to why Gagner is not going to make a very good 2nd line center moving forward it is all the intangibles that he lacks that will hold not only him but the team back.
Yes, intangibles. That word that statzis hate to see. You know the kinds of things that don't show up in stats and you can't enter into equations.
Teams are relying more and more on a big 2nd line center who can chip in with around 40 points/20 goals. They can play alot of minutes, play physical and take punishment. They can grind down other teams top players. Gagner does not fit that bill. He fits the bill of a top line center which is something he really hasn't shown he is capable of handling.
The 2 teams in the finals show us what kind of 2nd line centers you need. Zajac on the Deviils and Richards on the Kings. They can produce points but they won't always will. They can play physical. They can do all those little things that don't show up on the scoreboard or the stats sheet that lead to wins.
That is the kind of 2nd line center we need. Sorry Gagner does not fit that requirement going forward
<-- Credit goes to The Nemesis.
