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Why trade hammer?

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Old
05-30-2012, 11:57 AM
  #26
coldsteelonice84
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Leddy needs to stay and should be on the third pairing with Montador plus a lot of PP time. That being said, Hammer-Oduya is not a good 2nd pairing. Lastly, we need Hammer now more than ever or the team is going to get scored on a ton once again.

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05-30-2012, 12:58 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Leddy needs to stay and should be on the third pairing with Montador plus a lot of PP time. That being said, Hammer-Oduya is not a good 2nd pairing. Lastly, we need Hammer now more than ever or the team is going to get scored on a ton once again.
I'd be better with Hammer-Oduya, but Hammer-Leddy will be good if Leddy learns how to play defense this summer.

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05-30-2012, 12:59 PM
  #28
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I'd prefer Oduya to be partnered with Hammer over Leddy but in reality neither of them are really a good fit for Hammer's development. Hammer really needs a sound d man with him to be able to pump the gas a little and develop his game mentally.

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05-30-2012, 01:02 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
I'd prefer Oduya to be partnered with Hammer over Leddy but in reality neither of them are really a good fit for Hammer's development. Hammer really needs a sound d man with him to be able to pump the gas a little and develop his game mentally.
and we only have one of those, and he should be paired with Keith.

Olsen would be a nice fit if he wasn't learning on the fly.

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05-30-2012, 02:06 PM
  #30
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I've been a Hammer backer for a long time.. but I love how the OP is talking about Leddy, at 21 as "what you see is what you get".. meanwhile, Hammer is going to be 25 in a few days and the only thing he does well is block shots.. derp. He's a very inconsistent physical player and he doesn't clear the front of the net either.. derp. He can't make breakout passes and constantly gets run behind the net while trying to clear the puck.. derp.

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05-30-2012, 02:13 PM
  #31
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I still don't get why we should trade away almost all of our players

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05-30-2012, 02:13 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
I've been a Hammer backer for a long time.. but I love how the OP is talking about Leddy, at 21 as "what you see is what you get".. meanwhile, Hammer is going to be 25 in a few days and the only thing he does well is block shots.. derp. He's a very inconsistent physical player and he doesn't clear the front of the net either.. derp. He can't make breakout passes and constantly gets run behind the net while trying to clear the puck.. derp.
Agreed, but we would get more for Leddy than we would for Hammer, no doubt.

I really do think Hammer is the one that's getting traded, but I wouldn't be opposed to it being Leddy jsut for the fact that he would fetch more in return, and he is a little redundant on this team now.

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05-30-2012, 02:18 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
I've been a Hammer backer for a long time.. but I love how the OP is talking about Leddy, at 21 as "what you see is what you get".. meanwhile, Hammer is going to be 25 in a few days and the only thing he does well is block shots.. derp. He's a very inconsistent physical player and he doesn't clear the front of the net either.. derp. He can't make breakout passes and constantly gets run behind the net while trying to clear the puck.. derp.
Neither Hammer or Leddy should be traded. Oduya should not have been re-signed. Hawks should signed Bryan Allen and then a lot of our problems would've evaporated.

Hammer finally gets a quality partner that can play defense and allow him to not spend his entire TOI covering for someone else. He can begin to allow his physical tools to materialize (he has a strong shot, can hit and rush the puck decently) by not constantly being forced to think defense first. Allen is just what the doctor ordered for this charmin soft team.

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05-30-2012, 02:23 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
Neither Hammer or Leddy should be traded. Oduya should not have been re-signed. Hawks should signed Bryan Allen and then a lot of our problems would've evaporated.

Hammer finally gets a quality partner that can play defense and allow him to not spend his entire TOI covering for someone else. He can begin to allow his physical tools to materialize (he has a strong shot, can hit and rush the puck decently) by not constantly being forced to think defense first. Allen is just what the doctor ordered for this charmin soft team.
Allen really isn't much better than Oduya.

And Allen also isn't that tough to play against.
He only had 0.5 more hits per game than Oduya.

I think some of you just throw names out there that sound good to pretend to know more than Bowman. And if you think Allen is going to sign for 3yrs @ 3.38mil, you're dreaming.

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05-30-2012, 02:26 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Allen really isn't much better than Oduya.

And Allen also isn't that tough to play against.
He only had 0.5 more hits per game than Oduya.

I think some of you just throw names out there that sound good to pretend to know more than Bowman. And if you think Allen is going to sign for 3yrs @ 3.38mil, you're dreaming.
Allen can PK and play responsible defensive hockey for 20 minutes a game, both things that Oduya cannot do. Allen is also much better along the boards and in front of the net than Oduya is. Sure he isn't a hitting machine, doesn't mean he doesn't address needs.

Yes he will make more but I'd take what it'd cost to get him over Oduya's contract any day of the week.

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05-30-2012, 02:29 PM
  #36
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Why should we trade one of Leddy/Hjalmarsson?

as it is now, both can and should stay

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05-30-2012, 02:33 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
Neither Hammer or Leddy should be traded. Oduya should not have been re-signed. Hawks should signed Bryan Allen and then a lot of our problems would've evaporated.

Hammer finally gets a quality partner that can play defense and allow him to not spend his entire TOI covering for someone else. He can begin to allow his physical tools to materialize (he has a strong shot, can hit and rush the puck decently) by not constantly being forced to think defense first. Allen is just what the doctor ordered for this charmin soft team.
Whether it was Oduya or someone else, they were going to need to sign a capable transition Dman.. Oduya just happened to be the (likely) cheapest option. I know people don't think Oduya is what we needed.. and like I've said before, I didn't really want to re-sign him specifically either.. but the style of play he brought helped the team alot. For most of his time in Chicago, he was making smart breakout passes and hitting players with time and speed.. his style helped open things up for Chicago.

In the playoffs he complicated his game and obviously didn't play well.. but he did alot of good down the stretch and I'd expect with a more experienced, steady Dman he can be a good player for us, as he was for the majority of the time after acquiring him down the stretch.

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05-30-2012, 02:42 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
Allen can PK and play responsible defensive hockey for 20 minutes a game, both things that Oduya cannot do. Allen is also much better along the boards and in front of the net than Oduya is. Sure he isn't a hitting machine, doesn't mean he doesn't address needs.

Yes he will make more but I'd take what it'd cost to get him over Oduya's contract any day of the week.
Oduya, for not being able to play responsible hockey, was really the only partner that made Leddy look good in his own end this year.

Leddy/Hammer didn't work, Leddy/O'Donnell didn't workd, Leddy/Keith didn't work and while Leddy/Seabrook wasn't bad, you knew Olsen wasn't going to be playing 20 minutes a night consistently with Keith.

Leddy played his best hockey this year with Oduya. They looked good down the stretch because of Oduya's abillity to play responsible, simple and patient hockey in his own zone. He had a very good gap, good stick and made simple, smart plays in his own zone. I know he wasn't good in the playoffs, but Oduya did what few could last year and that was making a pairing with Leddy that was effective in their own zone, for the most part.

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05-30-2012, 02:53 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Oduya, for not being able to play responsible hockey, was really the only partner that made Leddy look good in his own end this year.

Leddy/Hammer didn't work, Leddy/O'Donnell didn't workd, Leddy/Keith didn't work and while Leddy/Seabrook wasn't bad, you knew Olsen wasn't going to be playing 20 minutes a night consistently with Keith.

Leddy played his best hockey this year with Oduya. They looked good down the stretch because of Oduya's abillity to play responsible, simple and patient hockey in his own zone. He had a very good gap, good stick and made simple, smart plays in his own zone. I know he wasn't good in the playoffs, but Oduya did what few could last year and that was making a pairing with Leddy that was effective in their own zone, for the most part.
Hahahahaha at thinking Oduya and Leddy were an effective defensive pair last season. I would have ignored you long ago if your posts weren't so entertaining.

In reality, Oduya didn't change his game all that much between the regular season and the playoffs, his game was just exposed as being not effective in the post season. Soft, positional and stick check based hockey with no effort along the boards does not work in the post season and that is what Oduya's "defense" is all about.

Oduya is an average puck rusher for a PMD and is below average at everything else. He's a 3rd pairing guy. In no way does is he a better fit than Bryan Allen. Still waiting for an argument on that.

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05-30-2012, 02:56 PM
  #40
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lol why are you always talking about ignoring people? little bit dramatic eh?

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05-30-2012, 03:05 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
Hahahahaha at thinking Oduya and Leddy were an effective defensive pair last season. I would have ignored you long ago if your posts weren't so entertaining.

In reality, Oduya didn't change his game all that much between the regular season and the playoffs, his game was just exposed as being not effective in the post season. Soft, positional and stick check based hockey with no effort along the boards does not work in the post season and that is what Oduya's "defense" is all about.

Oduya is an average puck rusher for a PMD and is below average at everything else. He's a 3rd pairing guy. In no way does is he a better fit than Bryan Allen. Still waiting for an argument on that.
This, coming from a poster that thinks Barret Jackman would be an ideal target in the off-sesaon.

Seriously, I hope you do ignore me. You'd just save me from reading more irrationale garbage.

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05-30-2012, 03:07 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
This, coming from a poster that thinks Barret Jackman would be an ideal target in the off-sesaon.

Seriously, I hope you do ignore me. You'd just save me from reading more irrationale garbage.
In what way does Johnny Oduya help this team more than Bryan Allen or Barre Jackman?

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05-30-2012, 03:08 PM
  #43
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Where is everyone getting only Seabs and Hammer block shots??

Seabrook: 165 in 78 games (14th in league)
Hammer: 142 in 69 games (32nd in league)
Oduya: 140 in 81 games (35th in league)

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05-30-2012, 03:14 PM
  #44
TwistedWrister90
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Originally Posted by BBSeabs27 View Post
Where is everyone getting only Seabs and Hammer block shots??

Seabrook: 165 in 78 games (14th in league)
Hammer: 142 in 69 games (32nd in league)
Oduya: 140 in 81 games (35th in league)
nice stats. i didn't know oduya blocked that many shots

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05-30-2012, 03:15 PM
  #45
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hoss and seabs, what do you think of hal gill? a cheap one year deal to play on the 3rd pairing

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05-30-2012, 03:20 PM
  #46
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Hammer

The real issue is that the Hawks D as a unit is soft. Seabrook will hit, but doesn't intimidate. Keith, Hammer, Oduya and Leddy comprise possibly the softest group of soft dmen in the NHL. So, the question begs, how do the Hawks toughen up their D yet remain competitive. Keith is staying and I'm guessing Leddy is too. Obviously, Oduya is now for a couple of years, as well. Personally, I can live with Hammer and Oduya as a defensive pairing if Montador is done due to concussion issues. If that's the case and assuming that O'Donnell is hanging up his skates, the Hawks could get a couple of tough d men for the 3rd unit. A guy like Carkner on Ottawa comes to mind. There's a kid on Pittsburgh I would love to have as well. I'm sure there's a host of others. There has to be some accountability to other teams that comes from the back end. I simply want to see Hammer do more open ice hitting to keep the other team honest. He's capable of it, but just doesn't do it.

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05-30-2012, 03:37 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
In what way does Johnny Oduya help this team more than Bryan Allen or Barre Jackman?
You're comparing two completely different style of player. Johnny Oduya significantly improved this team from the 2nd period of Toronto on. You have to look at the big picture. It's hilarious to me how you can only look at what he did in the playoffs, while I can acknowledge his poor play there and openly say I didn't want him re-signed and still talk about him in a way that doesn't diminish what he does or what he is. For what was available on the market and for what Chicago needs, Oduya is a nice fit at a decent price. He needs a stonger partner, both physically and defensively.. but he was and can be a Campbell-lite for this team. He's not close to as good offensively or in transition, but he's more than capable in those areas while bringing a better defensive presense (IMO) than Campbell did.

I'm in favor of bringing in a Bryan Allen type Dman.. as, like Bowman, I agree we need both. As I've continued to say since the playoffs ended, Oduya proved that Chicago still needs a more experienced transitional Dman, even if it wasn't him specifically.. but, as it's turned out, it will be Oduya. Now, you can focus on getting a Dman who provides that size and grit, who you can pair with a Leddy or Oduya to off-set their lack of size in the defensive zone.

One idea that I proposed before Oduya signed, was that Chicago should go out and get Matt Carle, trade Hammer and bring in a stronger, more physical Dman at a simluar price or cheaper for the 2nd pair. I used Brad Stuart as an example of the kind of Dman I was looking for.

Keith - Seabrook
Carle - Stuart-like Dman
Leddy - Montador/Olsen

All you do now is swap out Carle for Oduya.

I was and will continue to be a proponent of Hammer being a more capable offensive and transitional Dman than he's shown.. but it doesn't appear as though he'll ever get to show that in Chicago. He's become defined by Q in his role as a defensive Dman and that looks to be the role he'll continue to have. Now that Oduya has been signed, you should look to move Hammer for either an upgrade in net or an upgrade at centre.. or, simply a swap for a Dman that fits the mold you're currently looking for.

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05-30-2012, 03:52 PM
  #48
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Yea I'm comparing two different styles of player because the Hawks need one style of player more than another. Yes this team is built around quickly getting the puck out of the zone and moving it up the ice in transition but if we can't get the puck out of the zone because our d corps is weak along the boards then what's the point?

Oduya is the 4th best player on the team at rushing the puck in transition and making breakout passes. The 4th. What this team needs is balance, not an overpaid average at moving the puck d man.

With a player like Allen you have balance in the line up in the d pairings are made up properly. With Oduya you deepen the problem of being unable to activate your transition game due to being stuck in your own end.

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05-30-2012, 04:00 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
Yea I'm comparing two different styles of player because the Hawks need one style of player more than another. Yes this team is built around quickly getting the puck out of the zone and moving it up the ice in transition but if we can't get the puck out of the zone because our d corps is weak along the boards then what's the point?

Oduya is the 4th best player on the team at rushing the puck in transition and making breakout passes. The 4th. What this team needs is balance, not an overpaid average at moving the puck d man.

With a player like Allen you have balance in the line up in the d pairings are made up properly. With Oduya you deepen the problem of being unable to activate your transition game due to being stuck in your own end.
Oduya is a better transitional Dman/puck rusher than Seabrook and Leddy. The only player you could make an agrument in that area for is Leddy, but I'll take Oduya's experience over Leddy at this point and I'm as big a Leddy fan as you'll find.

As I already said, you can have both elements. You need both elements. Trade Hammer for a centre/goaltender and sign someone like Allen or trade Hammer straight up for a defensive Dman who's stronger infront of the net and along the boards.

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05-30-2012, 04:03 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Oduya is a better transitional Dman/puck rusher than Seabrook and Leddy. The only player you could make an agrument in that area for is Leddy, but I'll take Oduya's experience over Leddy at this point and I'm as big a Leddy fan as you'll find.

As I already said, you can have both elements. You need both elements. Trade Hammer for a centre/goaltender and sign someone like Allen or trade Hammer straight up for a defensive Dman who's stronger infront of the net and along the boards.
Oduya is and Seabrook have equal rushing skills but Seabrook definitely has a better transition passing. Leddy is better rushing BY FAR than Oduya is. Both are way better than Oduya in the offensive zone as well.

Thing is that if you get rid of Hammer and bring in someone else you still only have two defensive d men on the roster. If you upgrade Hammer slightly you are still left with a hole on the PK.

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