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Unofficial Rumor & Proposal Thread | Need Defence: Part VI

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Old
05-30-2012, 12:55 PM
  #26
Ganz
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Barrett Jackman is supposedly going to test the FA waters.
If he does, he would certainly get a long look from us.

I'm a fan of him

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Old
05-30-2012, 01:02 PM
  #27
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He would immediately make our team harder to play against. As long as he's not looking for a ridiculous pay raise.

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05-30-2012, 01:03 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Hard to really just make three moves. I mean I'd like to think we make more than 3 trades/UFA signings/AHLers graduating.

I think we look at 4 A's, maybe even more if Krueger says piss on going with a C. Now would be the time to remove it from Horcoff. Give him an "A" and name a new captain next year or the year after.
Come on dude, Tambo is still evaluating... how can you be so impatient? We don't need any roster changes, we need to evaluate!

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05-30-2012, 01:18 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Barrett Jackman is supposedly going to test the FA waters.
Kinda shocked. Not sure I'd target him though.

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Old
05-30-2012, 01:19 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganz View Post
If he does, he would certainly get a long look from us.

I'm a fan of him
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
He would immediately make our team harder to play against. As long as he's not looking for a ridiculous pay raise.
If we got him and schultz, it would give us 3 nice pairings of offense and defense.

Smid/Petry
J. Schultz/Jackman
N. Schultz/Whitney
Sutton or Potter

No super stars... but that back end should be steady enough for our forwards to take a game over. And playing with our forwards could still turn Petry or J. Schultz into stars.

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Old
05-30-2012, 01:19 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Kinda shocked. Not sure I'd target him though.
Why not?
Oduya re-upped with Chicago for a caphit of 3.75 IIRC, not sure of term.
Jackman may be one of the best D-men on the UFA market this year.

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05-30-2012, 01:23 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Why not?
Oduya re-upped with Chicago for a caphit of 3.75 IIRC, not sure of term.
Jackman may be one of the best D-men on the UFA market this year.
Jackman seems like a prime candidate to repeat a Komisarek scenario. I would be interested in him, but he'll likely get $5M+ on the UFA market, and I'm not sure he's worth spending that kind of coin on.

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Old
05-30-2012, 01:24 PM
  #33
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I'm definitely not willing to spend that kind of money on him. Noooo way.

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Old
05-30-2012, 01:25 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Hope4theFuture View Post
Jackman seems like a prime candidate to repeat a Komisarek scenario. I would be interested in him, but he'll likely get $5M+ on the UFA market, and I'm not sure he's worth spending that kind of coin on.
That I'll agree with. We don't need to give big money on a guy who isn't a guaranteed top pairing player. Jackman would improve our defense at present, but I'm sure out of all our prospects on D, we have 2 that will be as good or better, and in the NHL within a couple of years.

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Old
05-30-2012, 01:28 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Why not?
Oduya re-upped with Chicago for a caphit of 3.75 IIRC, not sure of term.
Jackman may be one of the best D-men on the UFA market this year.
Well I think he's at the very least looking for 4mil at 4 years and even that is being cheap.

Just because Bowman overpaid doesn't mean I'd want to overpay.

Good player, but not the guy we should target especially if he is leaving STL who looked pretty good last year. He wants a payday.

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Old
05-30-2012, 01:33 PM
  #36
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I guess to look at a positive with Jackman, maybe he's worried about new ownership and doesn't want to go through massive changes.

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Old
05-30-2012, 01:42 PM
  #37
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The article I read said he was worried about STL short changing him on an extension, so the pay day comment is most likely right. He wants a retirement contract.

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Old
05-30-2012, 01:43 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by notloilersfan View Post
That I'll agree with. We don't need to give big money on a guy who isn't a guaranteed top pairing player. Jackman would improve our defense at present, but I'm sure out of all our prospects on D, we have 2 that will be as good or better, and in the NHL within a couple of years.
I think you are underrating Jackman a bit. No defenceman got scored on less than him last season. He is one of the best shutdown defencemen in the league. None of our prospects will be as good as him any time soon.

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Old
05-30-2012, 01:45 PM
  #39
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OK just for fun -

1. Who would you hire as head coach and why?

It seems the best option right now is Brent Sutter. I've gotten over my "ick, anything but Flames castoffs" He's done well with young teams(WHL, WJC), wanted the Flames to rebuild with a young team(Feaster would look like a bigger idiot after calling out the Oilers), and hopefully won't allow any liberties taken on our players

2. What would you do with the first pick? Trade it, or pick _____ 1st overall.
Nail or we Fail

3. You can only make three roster moves. Trades, free agent signing or promoting AHL players. What are your three moves?
Sign Jokinen(with the Smyth money), trade Belanger, and sign Jackman
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Paajarvi-Jokinen-Hemsky
Hartikainen-Gagner-Yakupov
Eager-Horcoff-Jones
Lander

Jackman-Petry
Smid-Whitney
Potter-Schultz
Sutton

4. And just for fun, who will be the alternate captains next year.
I'd give it to Eberle, and Whitney

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Old
05-30-2012, 01:49 PM
  #40
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Yep...IMO another example of how we as fans can have an idealized notion of what a 2nd line center should be, even though the facts state something altogether different when you actually take the time to look at what the other 29 teams had in place for their 2nd line centers.
From what I can gather, these are the 2nd line centers for the 29 other teams in the league. I've bolded the players who are clearly an upgrade over Gagner:

Anaheim - Koivu
Boston - Krejci/Bergeron
Buffalo - Leino
Calgary - Backlund
Carolina - Ruutu
Chicago - Bolland
Colorado - Duchene
Columbus - Brassard/Vermette
Dallas - Ribeiro
Detroit - Zetterberg
Florida - Santorelli
Los Angeles - Richards
Minnesota - Cullen
Montreal - Gomez
Nashville - Legwand
New Jersey - Henrique
Islanders - Bailey
Rangers - Stepan
Ottawa - Turris
Philly - Briere
Phoenix - Langkow
Pitsburgh - Malkin
San Jose - Couture
St. Louis - Berglund
Tampa Bay - Lecavalier
Toronto - Grabovski/Connolly
Vancouver - Kesler
Washington - Johansson
Winnipeg - Burmistrov


Obviously, not everyone is going to see these players the same way, but that's 13 teams with better #2 centers than the Oilers. There are some names you could add such as Henrique and Stepan, but I don't think either is a slam dunk (and Henrique played most of the year between Parise and Kovalchuk).

Of course 11 of those 13 teams made the playoffs, but by the same token, 5 playoff teams had #2Cs at, or below the Gagner line.

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Old
05-30-2012, 01:56 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
I think you are underrating Jackman a bit. No defenceman got scored on less than him last season. He is one of the best shutdown defencemen in the league. None of our prospects will be as good as him any time soon.
That is not true. Just on his team every Dman except for Pietrangleo and Polak got scored on more. Not sure where you got that data, but it doesn't appear to be even close to right.

EDIT: NVM - just figured out that you probably meant at ES.

EDIT 2: Was curious, so looked.

Jackman was only on the ice for .382 ES GA/game. Best amongst players over 52GP. Top 5 are:

Jackman 0.382
Brookbank 0.3875
Kindl 0.400
McQuaid 0.402
Ericsson 0.405

Our best: Sutton, 0.480, followed by Peckham, Barker, and then Smid.

What this tells me is that we would also need to look at TOI

The other thing - Jackman's numbers were certainly bolstered by a ridiculous goalie tandem in STL this year. Last year he was at more than double ES GA/Gm as he was this year. The year before, .787, the year before .939, and the year before .807.

This year definitely seems like an anomaly.


Last edited by Hoogaar23: 05-30-2012 at 02:14 PM.
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Old
05-30-2012, 01:58 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
1. Krueger. Glowing praise from those that have had him as their coach and a very good relationship with the kids.

2. Nail, no question. Not even the hint of a question.

3. Sign Schultz, Sign Garrison, promote Paajarvi.

Hall - Gagner - Eberle
Hemsky - RNH - Yakupov
Smyth - Horcoff - Paajarvi
Eager - Belanger - Jones

Smid - Petry
Whitney - Garrison
Schultz - Schultz

DD
Khabby

4. Hall, Smid.
I like your decisions. I may juggle the lines a bit but who wouldn't!

I like that we could do 2 units of pp with defencemen.

Garrison - Schultz
Petry - Whitney

Have no idea which way they shoot.

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:17 PM
  #43
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1. Who would you hire as head coach and why?
Tough choice between Dallas Eakins and Brent Sutter. Wouldn't mind Ralph Kruger either.

2. What would you do with the first pick? Trade it, or pick _____ 1st overall.
Yakupov.

3. You can only make three roster moves. Trades, free agent signing or promoting an AHL player
Bring up Paajarvi + Hartikainen
Sign J. Schultz
Trade Gagner + Potter for McBain + LaRose

Hemsky - Nuge - Eberle
Paajarvi - Hall - Yakupov
Jones - Horcoff - LaRose
Harti - Belanger - Petrell
Eager, Hordichuk

Smid - Petry
Whitney - J. Schultz
N. Schultz - McBain
Sutton

Dubnyk
Khabibulin

4. And just for fun, who will be the alternate captains next year.
Hall and Smid

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:32 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
I agree that Gagner isn't the perfect number 2 center on this team but we don't have anyone in the system that is capable of replacing his icetime. I don't want Horcoff as our 2nd line center. That means if RNH goes down he's our top center. Yikes!

I'd rather keep Gagner until we can get another center.

Hall-Gagner-Eberle
Hemsky-Gagner-Yakupov

That's a pretty good top 6. We just need more grit in the bottom 6. Smyth and Horcoff are good leaders but haven't earned a name from playing physical.

Maybe we can move Gagner for a bigger number 2 once Pitlick and Lander are further along?

Going into the season I would be ok with this. Give Gagner a chance with some legit players. Hell if he racks up 60 points his trade value just went through the roof.

With these top 6 I would honestly say that we have secondary scoring.

Just realized you showed two different lines with Gagner. So, adding in RNH would look good.

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05-30-2012, 02:34 PM
  #45
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I'm really excited about Pitlick too, but I see him as a winger in the future for some reason. I think him, Lander and Paajarvi would make a really good 3rd line. JMO.
That would be a very nice 3rd line:
PRV; Lander; Pitlick, gives us skill and size.

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:38 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Hope4theFuture View Post
Gagner + for Hanzal??
Hanzal is a big body but as far as offense he offers nothing. I want a 2C that has skill that can get 50 points. I can see Gagner getting close to 60 points if the coaches play him top 6 minutes with Hemsky and Yak.

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05-30-2012, 02:38 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
From what I can gather, these are the 2nd line centers for the 29 other teams in the league. I've bolded the players who are clearly an upgrade over Gagner:

Anaheim - Koivu
Boston - Krejci/Bergeron
Buffalo - Leino
Calgary - Backlund
Carolina - Ruutu
Chicago - Bolland
Colorado - Duchene
Columbus - Brassard/Vermette
Dallas - Ribeiro
Detroit - Zetterberg
Florida - Santorelli
Los Angeles - Richards
Minnesota - Cullen
Montreal - Gomez
Nashville - Legwand
New Jersey - Henrique
Islanders - Bailey
Rangers - Stepan
Ottawa - Turris
Philly - Briere
Phoenix - Langkow
Pitsburgh - Malkin
San Jose - Couture
St. Louis - Berglund
Tampa Bay - Lecavalier
Toronto - Grabovski/Connolly
Vancouver - Kesler
Washington - Johansson
Winnipeg - Burmistrov


Obviously, not everyone is going to see these players the same way, but that's 13 teams with better #2 centers than the Oilers. There are some names you could add such as Henrique and Stepan, but I don't think either is a slam dunk (and Henrique played most of the year between Parise and Kovalchuk).

Of course 11 of those 13 teams made the playoffs, but by the same token, 5 playoff teams had #2Cs at, or below the Gagner line.
Henrique (although it's a small sample size), Stepan, Burmistrov and Grabovski are quite easily better 2 way players than Gagner. A lot of the other guys on the list are just as effective as Gagner when taking into account all around play.

The point is that Gagner is at best a mediocre #2 center and has a skillset that is duplicated in the top 6 by more skilled players so some of you guys can go on about how Gagner is a decent #2C based on offensive numbers but the fact remains that he is simply not good enough (unless he shows big improvements next season) to be the #2C that this team needs going forward.
I don't think that he should be traded right now because there is no suitable replacement lined up but he will have to be traded at some point IMO and the sooner that Tambellini finds that replacement the better.

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:44 PM
  #48
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So what about UFA Brandon Prust as a possible target next season?

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:53 PM
  #49
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[QUOTE=misfit;50311945]From what I can gather, these are the 2nd line centers for the 29 other teams in the league. I've bolded the players who are clearly an upgrade over Gagner:

Anaheim - Koivu
Boston - Krejci/Bergeron
Buffalo - Leino
Calgary - Backlund
Carolina - Ruutu
Chicago - Bolland
Colorado - Duchene
Columbus - Brassard/Vermette
Dallas - Ribeiro
Detroit - Zetterberg
Florida - Santorelli
Los Angeles - Richards
Minnesota - Cullen
Montreal - Gomez
Nashville - Legwand
New Jersey - Henrique
Islanders - Bailey
Rangers - Stepan
Ottawa - Turris
Philly - Briere
Phoenix - Langkow
Pitsburgh - Malkin
San Jose - Couture
St. Louis - Berglund
Tampa Bay - Lecavalier
Toronto - Grabovski/Connolly
Vancouver - Kesler
Washington - Johansson
Winnipeg - Burmistrov

QUOTE]

The players that you pick that I don't agree with are:
Bolland; one inch bigger but lighter than Gagner; 10 less points and is only 1% better in the FO.
Berglund; he is bigger and is a bit better in the FO circle but does not have as much skill as Gagner does. From what I understand he does not use his size either.
Lecavalier is better but with his contract I would take Gagner over him.
Johansson; I don't see him better than Gagner.

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:55 PM
  #50
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I agree with Joe, statistics and comparisons to 59 other centres in the NHL make Gagner look like an adequate 2C but it's so obvious he lacks any kind of intangible that makes him a worthwhile NHL player, especially with RNH essentially being a better version of him. IMO this team doesn't compete until he is gone and there is a better, bigger, 2C with more multidimensional talents and intangibles.
There's a phrase for this:

1st Line Center

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