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Marc Staal to Carolina

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:30 PM
  #26
Thirty One
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Eric Staal

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:32 PM
  #27
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I just remembered the Canes writer who suggested Jussi Jokinen for Marc Staal a couple years back...

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:38 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I just remembered the Canes writer who suggested Jussi Jokinen for Marc Staal a couple years back...
To be fair, at the time of the proposed trade, Jokinen had come off a 30-goal season while making 1.9 mill and the Rangers had been having trouble signing Staal to a contract of their liking.

And the writer ended the article saying that it won't happen because Sather likes Staal and JR is less than willing to spend a lot of money.

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:41 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
Well then, interested to hear how you think the counters were garbage what you think a fair offer would be from the Canes?
Pitkanen and a 1st for Staal is garbage. That's what I was referencing. I went a little overboard on my first post. I guess some of the annoyance from the Pen's Staal thread boiled over. So I apologize for that.

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:48 PM
  #30
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Pitkanen, Jokinen, Rask for Staal.

More than fair.

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:51 PM
  #31
Thirty One
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeromeo87 View Post
Pitkanen, Jokinen, Rask for Staal.

More than fair.
Yeah, but it's not.

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:55 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Jeffry Skinner or bust.
I'm thinking Skinner would cost McD, Staal would not be enough...

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:55 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeromeo87 View Post
Pitkanen, Jokinen, Rask for Staal.

More than fair.
too much salary.
we want young cheap pieces...

McBain & Faulk
or
Pitkanen, Faulk 1st

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Old
05-30-2012, 03:00 PM
  #34
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Skinner + McBain
for
M. Staal + mutually agreeable X ___________________

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Old
05-30-2012, 03:05 PM
  #35
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skinner scored 30 his rookie year and is 20 YEARS OLD!

staal is a very good defender, but he isn't a top 15 defenseman in the league.

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Old
05-30-2012, 03:07 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
skinner scored 30 his rookie year and is 20 YEARS OLD!

staal is a very good defender, but he isn't a top 15 defenseman in the league.
That's arguable.

If you name me 15 better than then, I'd bet at least 7 are arguable.

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Old
05-30-2012, 03:07 PM
  #37
Boom Boom Anton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
too much salary.
we want young cheap pieces...

McBain & Faulk
or
Pitkanen, Faulk 1st
I'm not going to get into overall value discussions between teams (as opposing fan bases rarely agree), but I am a bit perplexed by the two proposals. I realize McBain is younger and cheaper, but Pitkanen is only 28 and is the far superior player.

Ignoring the M. Staal side of the equation. Pitkanen and Faulk > McBain and Faulk. Why would a 1st be added to the Pitkanen side of that deal?

Just curious.


Last edited by Boom Boom Anton: 05-30-2012 at 03:45 PM.
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Old
05-30-2012, 03:08 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
That's arguable.

If you name me 15 better than then, I'd bet at least 7 are arguable.
Yeah I'd say he is for sure top 20, probably top 15.

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Old
05-30-2012, 03:10 PM
  #39
Thirty One
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeromeo87 View Post
Pitkanen, Jokinen, Rask for Staal.

More than fair.
That package may get you Dubinsky, Rozsival and a 2nd

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Old
05-30-2012, 03:11 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
I'm not going to get into overall value discussions between teams (as opposing fan bases rarely agree), but I am a bit perplexed by the two proposals. I realize McBain is younger and cheaper, but Pitkanen is only 28 and is the far superior player.

Ignoring the M. Staal side of the equation. Pitkanen and Faulk > McBain and Faulk. Why would a 1st be added to the 2nd part of that deal?

Just curious.
1) Canes fans are never hesitant to give up Pitkanen. 90% of the time he is acceptable in a deal.
2) He had a poor year last year, and is expensive.
3) I also added a 2nd the original time i posted it coming from NY - i forgot to add that the 2nd time i posted it - i apologize ( it was also a 2013 first).


Last edited by ChrisKreider20: 05-30-2012 at 03:25 PM.
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Old
05-30-2012, 03:15 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Pitkanen and a 1st for Staal is garbage. That's what I was referencing. I went a little overboard on my first post. I guess some of the annoyance from the Pen's Staal thread boiled over. So I apologize for that.
Eh, no need to apologize.

I think if you looked more closely, you'd see Pitkanen+1st for Staal is not garbage. They're both mostly one-dimensional 2nd pair guys - yes McD has replaced Staal in the top pairing. Pitkanen and o-D and Staal a d-D. Pitkanen's D is not great but can limit his mistakes with his speed. Staal is limited offensively but is an pretty accurate passer.

I don't think NYR are looking to move Staal but he has an escalating contract and a recently a lesser role than when his new deal was inked. When you throw in the 8th pick overall, it's hardly garbage. Now I don't think NYR would take it but that's the rationale behind it.

If Staal were a true #1, which he's not, it'd be a clear underpayment but as it is, but when you start throwing Skinner+ into the mix it becomes a big time overpayment for Carolina.

And by the way, I think all the Staals get generally overvalued here including Eric.


Last edited by StormCast: 05-30-2012 at 03:24 PM.
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Old
05-30-2012, 03:17 PM
  #42
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Just a general question: what are the Rangers' roster and cap needs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post

McBain & Faulk
Something to keep in mind when talking about these two is that they are the only RHD on the Canes roster. Losing them both would leave the team with 6 LHD.

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Old
05-30-2012, 03:37 PM
  #43
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Skinner or pass.

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Old
05-30-2012, 03:51 PM
  #44
Thirty One
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
Eh, no need to apologize.

I think if you looked more closely, you'd see Pitkanen+1st for Staal is not garbage. They're both mostly one-dimensional 2nd pair guys - yes McD has replaced Staal in the top pairing. Pitkanen and o-D and Staal a d-D. Pitkanen's D is not great but can limit his mistakes with his speed. Staal brings very little offensively but is an pretty accurate passer.

I don't think NYR are looking to move Staal but he has an escalating contract and a recently a lesser role than when his new deal was inked. When you throw in the 8th pick overall, it's hardly garbage. Now I don't think NYR would take it but that's the rationale behind it.

If Staal were a true #1, which he's not, it'd be a clear underpayment but as it is, but when you start throwing Skinner+ into the mix it becomes a big time overpayment for Carolina.

And by the way, I think all the Staals get generally overvalued here including Eric.
I have a tough time with the labels of Staal strictly defensive and Pitkanen strictly offensive. In the 2009-10 and 2010-11 seasons, Pitkanen's ES points per minute was 29% higher than Staal's. PP was 17% higher. This season, Staal's numbers were pathetic because he was recovering from a concussion, but he showed in the playoffs he can still produce.

I don't think any Ranger fan believes they could get Skinner for Staal, but that's what it would take. Read: there is no trade to be made here. The Rangers have no reason to trade him for a high quantity package.

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05-30-2012, 03:59 PM
  #45
Boom Boom Anton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
1) Canes fans are never hesitant to give up Pitkanen. 90% of the time he is acceptable in a deal.
It's typical on HF boards to place higher value the shiny new toy. Pitkanen is far superior to McBain, trust me. Pitkanen can eat up 25+ minutes a night and play PP, PK and ES. McBain is a good young defenseman, but we'll be lucky if he ever becomes the defenseman Joni is. Also, go read the Canes board. McBain is thrown around in trade proposals from Canes fans more than Pitkanen is.

Quote:
2) He had a poor year last year, and is expensive.
He had the same sort of "poor year" that M. Staal did, meaning he missed most of the season with a concussion.

He's also not that expensive at $4.5M. But his salary is kind of irrelevant. If you are willing to take Pitkanen and Faulk + a 1st in a deal, it means you are willing to take his salary either way. What your proposal implies is that the value of Pitkanen's salary ($4.5M) vs. McBain's Salary ($1.8M) is a 1st round pick? Even though Pitkanen is a far superior player and only 4 years older?

Quote:
3) I also added a 2nd the original time i posted it coming from NY - i forgot to add that the 2nd time i posted it - i apologize ( it was also a 2013 first).

That's not really my question though as I'm keeping the NYR side out of this equation. I'm simply looking at the two either/or pieces you included in your proposal on the Carolina side. The reality is that Pitkanen (even at his salary) and Faulk are more valuable than McBain and Faulk, so the 1st round pick is what doesn't make sense.

Anyhow, not a big deal, just my $0.02 on those to pieces from a Canes fan POV.


Last edited by Boom Boom Anton: 05-30-2012 at 04:42 PM.
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Old
05-30-2012, 04:11 PM
  #46
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Sutter, Ryan Murphy, Keegan Lowe, #8
for
Staal, Ryan Bourque, #58

Though I don't see Rangers moving Staal at all.

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05-30-2012, 04:21 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I have a tough time with the labels of Staal strictly defensive and Pitkanen strictly offensive. In the 2009-10 and 2010-11 seasons, Pitkanen's ES points per minute was 29% higher than Staal's. PP was 17% higher. This season, Staal's numbers were pathetic because he was recovering from a concussion, but he showed in the playoffs he can still produce.

I don't think any Ranger fan believes they could get Skinner for Staal, but that's what it would take. Read: there is no trade to be made here. The Rangers have no reason to trade him for a high quantity package.
Oh, I understand about their labels but it's the simplest way to categorize them. Neither of them has a fully complete game on both sides of the puck though, thus why I said Staal (and true of Pitkanen too) is not a true #1. You also have to throw out Pitkanen's numbers those years because of the crazy way D's were used. Hell, even Joe Corvo was getting mind-boggling ES minutes.

I don't think there's any real trade to made either. I'd suspect if for whatever reason Staal was shopped it'd be for a top winger but that certainly wouldn't be Skinner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Skinner or pass.
He wore a Ranger uniform already so stop being greedy. Pass.

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Old
05-30-2012, 04:22 PM
  #48
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what about:

Sutter + 8th overall

for

Staal + 28th overall

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Old
05-30-2012, 04:31 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
skinner scored 30 his rookie year and is 20 YEARS OLD!

staal is a very good defender, but he isn't a top 15 defenseman in the league.
It's not about his value among all other d-men in the league. It's about what Staal is worth to us and what it would cost to pry him away. We don't need futures, we need immediate offensive help. Eric Staal is ludicrous to even discuss, Jokinen appears to be long removed from his 30 goal season, and nobody else on your team cracked 40 points last year aside from Skinner.

Bad trading partners.

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Old
05-30-2012, 04:46 PM
  #50
Boom Boom Anton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
It's not about his value among all other d-men in the league. It's about what Staal is worth to us and what it would cost to pry him away. We don't need futures, we need immediate offensive help. Eric Staal is ludicrous to even discuss, Jokinen appears to be long removed from his 30 goal season, and nobody else on your team cracked 40 points last year aside from Skinner.

Bad trading partners.
Kind of off topic, but is it offensive help or a different offensive system that the Rangers need (or maybe they are tied together)? The two Rangers games I watch here in Raleigh were by far the most boring games all season. Dump and chase, be physical, wait for the other team to make a mistake and take advantage of it. Even the Rangers fans who are typically a lot of fun when they are in the building were very quiet. Don't get me wrong, it worked for them and they were successful at it, but that style of play doesn't lend itself to a lot of scoring even if you add talent.

Just curious what your thoughts are.

Anyhow, I do agree with you on the other point. No reason for the Rangers to part way with Staal right now and it would cost the Canes too much to make it worth it for them to acquire him.

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