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The Official Offseason Thread (Part II) - Brooks: Rangers after Radulov

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05-30-2012, 04:09 PM
  #101
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
Oh yeah i agree it's a lot to give regardless. I mean, Nash would be amazing here and i think his production would improve being on a line with Richards or even Stepan but I was more or less saying that if Torts is going to be talking trade with Howson...that would most likely be the deal. IMO.
If Torts was doing the talking, Howson would probably be crying after 3 minutes.

But seriously, the last few deals for superstars have been significant:

Mike Richards got:
Schenn
Simmonds
2nd rounder

Jeff Carter got:
2011 8th overall
Voracek
3rd rounder

Brent Burns got:
Setoguchi
Coyle
1st

Those are some hefty returns. Now, none of those players asked to be traded like Nash, nor do they carry as high of a cap hit, but he's a hell of a player.

You look at Dany Heatley and his debacle and he fetched Michalek, Cheechoo and a 2nd round draft choice. Heatley is a nutjob and Ottawa ultimately came out on top, but Heatley did in fact demand to be traded and had a NMC which gave him total control over the situation. Ottawa caved because the whole ordeal became a distraction. As good of a guy Nash is -- and he's a heck of a good guy -- I can't see him being thrilled with the idea of Howson throwing him under the bus and saying it was his idea to be traded.

Columbus doesn't have to trade Nash, but does management really want their young kids to get the impression that they treat their players like this? Does Ryan Johansen's opinion of Columbus get skewed because they refused to play ball with a guy who has given them a decade of service while they floundered around like morons? It's a really messed up situation.

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05-30-2012, 04:11 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by seanaveryfan View Post
Who would you prefer to back Henrik Lundqvist next season? I know Biron is going to be a free agent but would you rather they resign him or any of thse guys below:

Other possibilities (all Free Agents)

Niittymaki
Leighton
Clemmensen
C. Mason
Ellis
Vokoun (Heard he is going Toronto)
Gustavasson
Auld
Emery
Montoya
J. Harding
C. Sanford
B. Johnson
D. Roloson (guy should retire)
Dan Ellis
Ty Conklin
Biron is my first choice, unless he decides he wants more money which he could surely get elsewhere. If he signs for about the same as the last two years, thats great.

If not, I like Gustavsson, Auld, Clemensen, Montoya and Conklin from that list, all around 700-800k cap-hit max.

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05-30-2012, 04:15 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
As Ed MacMahon used to say to Carson on the tonite show,
"
You Are Correct Sir."

It really is laughable at best when some of our fans fixate on Thomas potting 50+ in Jrs or St. Croix's production last year, etcetera and so on. They also think Del Zaster was a better pick than Carlson and Eberle or even Ennis and the Flyers lucked into Giroux because we picked the highly rated Bobby Sangs.

Really amusing, ain't it?
Wow, I may be harder on Lundqvist and the team than others but you have to be the biggest Rangers hater (who is a Rangers fan) that I've ever seen. It's just pathetic.

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Old
05-30-2012, 04:15 PM
  #104
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So...did Zuccarello sign with a European club or not?

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Old
05-30-2012, 04:17 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Wow, I may be harder on Lundqvist and the team than others but you have to be the biggest Rangers hater (who is a Rangers fan) that I've ever seen. It's just pathetic.
How's he a Rangers hater? He simply calls things the way he sees them. Objectivity is mostly foreign around here. He's not afraid to criticize Rangers players and prospects if they aren't playing up to expectations. Around here, that's usually a green light to be berated for being impatient and wanting to abandon the youth movement and trade away all our young players for aging former stars.

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05-30-2012, 04:20 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
How's he a Rangers hater? He simply calls things the way he sees them. Objectivity is mostly foreign around here. He's not afraid to criticize Rangers players and prospects if they aren't playing up to expectations. Around here, that's usually a green light to be berated for being impatient and wanting to abandon the youth movement and trade away all our young players for aging former stars.
I think he's bashed every Ranger that has played on this team. He bashed a young team that just got the 1 seed and went to the ECF, by saying how mediocre they were. Who the **** cares? They went to ECF. Seriously, it's a young team and he wants to trade all of the young players and bashes them because they didn't looked good in making the Eastern Conference Finals. It's ridiculous.

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Old
05-30-2012, 04:28 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I think he's bashed every Ranger that has played on this team. He bashed a young team that just got the 1 seed and went to the ECF, by saying how mediocre they were. Who the **** cares? They went to ECF. Seriously, it's a young team and he wants to trade all of the young players and bashes them because they didn't looked good in making the Eastern Conference Finals. It's ridiculous.
Every young player? This is the ridiculous crap that drives me nuts. Any suggestion to trade ONE young player (Del Zotto) and posters like you go off the deep end and twist it into "you want to trade away every young player!" Why must you stretch a simple suggestion to trade one player into a wild generalization that was never even implied?

Not to mention the players that have been suggested we trade these 1-2 young players for....are ALSO YOUNG PLAYERS. They're not old farts. Nash is 27. Ryan just turned 25.

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05-30-2012, 04:34 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Every young player? This is the ridiculous crap that drives me nuts. Any suggestion to trade ONE young player (Del Zotto) and posters like you go off the deep end and twist it into "you want to trade away every young player!" Why must you stretch a simple suggestion to trade one player into a wild generalization that was never even implied?

Not to mention the players that have been suggested we trade these 1-2 young players for....are ALSO YOUNG PLAYERS. They're not old farts. Nash is 27. Ryan just turned 25.
He's *****ed about other players. And tell me how is this NOT a lack of patience? The kid scored 40 points and was a +20 on a slightly above average offensive team (in the regular season) during the season. Trading him right now because he had a bad series is lunacy. This is the kind of thinking that gave us 7 straight years of no playoffs.

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05-30-2012, 04:40 PM
  #109
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So saying "Del Zaster" isn't bashing, it's proposing we trade him for an upgrade. That's some serious spin right there.


How is Columbus with the cap floor and internal budget? It's impossible to predict accurately with the uncertainty of the CBA, but would CLB need some money coming back if they trade Nash? Dubinsky, Anisimov and a pick/Thomas/Miller is very comparable to the last set of star player trades. Probably a bit higher in value than those deals, or at least higher when you factor in all of the circumstances surrounding Nash's issues in Columbus.

I'm comfortable with that deal and it's a huge cap relief. All hinges on the CBA and Columbus' cap numbers.

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05-30-2012, 04:40 PM
  #110
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Just read a lot of pages in this post-season discussion and both sides make a lot of sense for the most part (the sides being either getting Nash for a significant collection of assets or getting David Jones type of complement player without costing much in terms of assets/salary). Left out from the below considerations any fantasy type acquisitions with less than 50% chance of happening the real world.

I'm probably in the "Jones" for the most part - because it didn't fail on me to recognize that this mostly young and developing team came within a couple of bounces short of playing in the SC Finals. Not one single player outperformed his expectations in the regular or post season (unless you consider a steep learning curve in development as outperformance for McD, Hagelin, Kreider and such). So this team as whole is going to be better next season simply by continuing to "naturally" improve through further development of these young players, as well as a rebound performance by certain others.

However, I'm not sold on Jones as a player this team needs or his type. Yes, he fits the system and the make-up of this team but he is a twinner - not something this team needs. The pretty obvious lines as I see them for next season are:

Kreider (Hagelin) - Richards - Gaborik
Hagelin (Kreider) - Stepan - XXXX
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Cally
Rupp - Boyle - Prust

I purposely showed Anisimov line as a 3rd because both individually and as a group they better fit defensively as a VERY good third line that could play shotdown style against opponents' top lines if needed, whereas Stepan line couldn't not (at least as successfully). That's why I don't want a twinner but rather a full fledged top 6 winger who we the Rangers should obtain (at this point of building a contender) by trading spare parts, prospects and picks. Depending on a value - all current non-roster players except for Miller and one of Erixon or McIlrath - and current & future picks should be available for consideration. Would Zuke be receptive to include his RFA rights if promised a one way contract with a "guaranteed" position? Maybe. Otherwise, only one player from the lines above could be available in Dubi (only because of the salary) - and only in a very limited scenario where we get a 1st liner (not just top 6) and could compensate the other part of the value with prospects / picks.

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Old
05-30-2012, 04:46 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
So...did Zuccarello sign with a European club or not?
not yet

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Old
05-30-2012, 04:48 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
He's *****ed about other players. And tell me how is this NOT a lack of patience? The kid scored 40 points and was a +20 on a slightly above average offensive team (in the regular season) during the season. Trading him right now because he had a bad series is lunacy. This is the kind of thinking that gave us 7 straight years of no playoffs.
Do you understand how trades work?

If Del Zotto didn't have a great season, he wouldn't have any value and he wouldn't be able to fetch the type of scorer we're discussing.

In order to get a good player in a trade, you have to give up some value as well. (the Gomez deal being the exception). Having Staal, McDonagh, Girardi allows us to explore the option of signing Schultz and/or Suter and then using Del Zotto as an asset to fill our biggest need / acquire a top line scoring winger.

It makes no sense to argue, "Player X had a good season! WHY ON EARTH would you trade him now?"

BECAUSE his value is high enough to get a good return! That's why!

The same reason I want to explore the interest in Gaborik around the league after a season in which he was healthy, playing all 82 games and scoring 40 goals before playing in 20 playoff games, even though his goal total was significantly down.

Standing pat = death. Especially when every other team in our division will likely improve.

Sauer is a question mark right now, for sure. But with Staal, McD, Girardi, being locks for the opening night roster, Erixon being pretty close to a lock as long as he puts on some muscle, McIlrath (who was close last pre-season) having a very good chance, the possibility of adding Schultz or Suter (or both), and the possibility of bringing back Stralman for cheap, you'd be nuts to ignore the possibility of dealing DZ to add some legit top 6 talent to a lineup barren of it. You cant label every single homegrown player "untouchable." It's just not realistic. If Nash and Ryan are "touchable" enough to be considered for a trade, then Michael Del Zotto is certainly expendable for the right return. Reality, my friend. Can you dig it?

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Old
05-30-2012, 04:50 PM
  #113
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Lidstrom is said to be retiring on Thursday. He had such an amazing career.

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Old
05-30-2012, 04:52 PM
  #114
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If you can land Nash at the draft & sign Parise in July while shedding salary in Gaborik and Dubinsky without giving away Krieder & McDonagh, you do it. What ever assets you give up to get Nash, you try and get back with Gaborik leaving town.

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05-30-2012, 04:56 PM
  #115
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Lidstrom is said to be retiring on Thursday. He had such an amazing career.
yep he was one of the best. Now the Suter to Detroit rumors gain more steam. Heck Parise too

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05-30-2012, 04:57 PM
  #116
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If you can land Nash at the draft & sign Parise in July while shedding salary in Gaborik and Dubinsky without giving away Krieder & McDonagh, you do it. What ever assets you give up to get Nash, you try and get back with Gaborik leaving town.
that is fantasy land. Gaborik is just fine and will be on this team. They need to help him and if they strike out on Parise then its a trade.........3rd option is a 1 yr vet like Jagr or Whitney

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05-30-2012, 05:00 PM
  #117
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Okay, had the holiday weekend to recover from loss to Devils -- ready for the 2012-13 Rangers season. LGR.

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Old
05-30-2012, 05:01 PM
  #118
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that is fantasy land. Gaborik is just fine and will be on this team. They need to help him and if they strike out on Parise then its a trade.........3rd option is a 1 yr vet like Jagr or Whitney
It's not fantasy.

Parise is a UFA. Can sign with anyone including the Rangers.

Nash is on the market. It was a very public near trade to the NYR. It is very possible.


Parise for FREE.
Nash for something that doesn't include CK & Ryan McDonagh.

Gaborik will fetch something very nice in return that we can A) use on the Rangers team or B) re-stock the farm/picks that we lost in the Nash deal.

It's not as far fetched as you might think.

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05-30-2012, 05:04 PM
  #119
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It's not fantasy.

Parise is a UFA. Can sign with anyone including the Rangers.

Nash is on the market. It was a very public near trade to the NYR. It is very possible.


Parise for FREE.
Nash for something that doesn't include CK & Ryan McDonagh.

Gaborik will fetch something very nice in return that we can A) use on the Rangers team or B) re-stock the farm/picks that we lost in the Nash deal.

It's not as far fetched as you might think.
the team had a good yr. they won the East in the regular season and almost won it in the playoffs. Gaborik had a very good yr , you dont trade him. It makes no sense and will not happen

If you want to say sign Parise and if they dont get him trade for Nash ok fine but both will not happen. They are not going to blow up a good thing and yes this is a good thing even though some are still crying over the playoff loss

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05-30-2012, 05:05 PM
  #120
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Anybody think Dubinsky will go in a trade?

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05-30-2012, 05:09 PM
  #121
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You know what's sad? I think we've already exhausted this summer's topics of debate.

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05-30-2012, 05:12 PM
  #122
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You know what's sad? I think we've already exhausted this summer's topics of debate.
Thankfully we didn't get KO'd in mid April like most seasons otherwise I would have killed myself already with the same topics being discussed. Great thing about going deep is the shorter offseason.

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05-30-2012, 05:14 PM
  #123
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You know what's sad? I think we've already exhausted this summer's topics of debate.
Yep. 3 more months of this is going to kill me.

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05-30-2012, 05:15 PM
  #124
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You know what's sad? I think we've already exhausted this summer's topics of debate.
yep, lol........not many changes really need to be made.
G- Hank is great.........I think most of us say bring back Biron and if he goes then they sign another vet likely. I dont think Talbot is ready to sit around and watch Hank

D- some throw out moving a top 4 Dman but I am 99% sure that wont happen so its Staal, Girarid, McD, DZ again then maybe one vet depth signing to go with Erixon and I think Stralman is back

UFA, I think most want Prust back, seems split on Feds but I say let him and Mitchell, Eminger walk. RFA I sign Zuke but thats 50/50 on this board too. I offer Bickel and Woywitka 2 way deals only, good luck to them if they get one ways

Big move will be getting a scoring winger. Parise is the first choice and if that fails they move to a Whitney or Jagr or even a bold trade of Dubinsky and maybe Anisimov for a guy like Ryan Clowe

that's my offseason

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05-30-2012, 05:16 PM
  #125
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You know what's sad? I think we've already exhausted this summer's topics of debate.
Meh. At least the draft and free agency are actually coming up soon, unlike last year when we had like 2+ months to discuss Brad Richards signing with us.

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