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Marc Staal to Carolina

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Old
05-30-2012, 05:07 PM
  #51
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
...
Quote:
Just a general question: what are the Rangers' roster and cap needs?

"Something to keep in mind when talking about these two ..." {edit, I am posting the referenced insert: McBain & Faulk} "...is that they are the only RHD on the Canes roster. Losing them both would leave the team with 6 LHD."
I'd rather NOT deal my 2nd AND 3rd best D, a natural pair, but can you bribe me?

Skinner + McBain + Carolina 1st 2012
for
M. Staal + D. Girardi + NYR 2012 1st

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05-30-2012, 05:15 PM
  #52
ChrisKreider20
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I'd rather NOT deal my 2nd AND 3rd best D, a natural pair, but can you bribe me?

Skinner + McBain + Carolina 1st 2012
for
M. Staal + D. Girardi + NYR 2012 1st
Can you stop trying to trade Girardi lol?

He's been incredible for us this year and I think everyone of your proposals has him as the centre piece.

If we trade Girardi, I'll actually put a hole in my wall...

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05-30-2012, 05:19 PM
  #53
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Staal was lights out in the playoffs and finally got his stride back after being out half the year. He is arguably a top 15 to 20 dman in the NHL.

Skinner is also coming off an injury shortened season.

What wing does he play?

A Staal for Skinner swap seems fair. Staal has a great contract while Skinner has one more tear left on his ELC. Rangers have no interest in Jokinen or Pikanen.

May be Staal and a 2nd for Skinner and a 3rd.

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Old
05-30-2012, 05:21 PM
  #54
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
Can you stop trying to trade Girardi lol?

He's been incredible for us this year and I think everyone of your proposals has him as the centre piece.

If we trade Girardi, I'll actually put a hole in my wall...
Must trade for sniper. I can't tolerate all these games with inept offense, though I understand part of it is the Torts system.
Feel free to PM me and speak freely about all the options we have.

If you agree we have to give to get, then we have limited options, IMO.

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05-30-2012, 05:36 PM
  #55
ChrisKreider20
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Must trade for sniper. I can't tolerate all these games with inept offense, though I understand part of it is the Torts system.
Feel free to PM me and speak freely about all the options we have.

If you agree we have to give to get, then we have limited options, IMO.
I don't think we need a sniper to be honest.
We have plenty of guys with good shots including Gaborik, Callahan, Richards, Kreider etc.
What we lack is a guy who can control the puck, dictate play, and can play one on one.

Gaborik for all intensive purposes is a 'sniper' but if he has a man in front of him, he cannot beat him. Obviously this player must have a good NHL shot, but I don't think 'sniping' is necessarily the need.

I do think Rick Nash would address this issue since he is exceptional 1 on 1, but I think there are other cheaper options.

I still would not trade Girardi. The problem is even if we add that game-breaker, our system is still predicated on shot blocking and good defensive play. If we lose Girardi, we have no right handed guy who can play top unit and suddenly the pairing that is playing against the top line looks much worse and we'll get scored on even if we get more one on one goals. Frankly, I think of Girardi as untouchable unless he is dealt for a superior righty.

Staal can go because we have other lefties, but preferably, I'd like to see Del Zotto dealt. I think we can still get that top end piece without dealing a playing as critical to our success as Girardi.

Frankly, something I would like to see done (and some won't agree) is a Nash for Gaborik swap. I think Nash can thrive more in our system. He is not as fast as Gabby but he is better one on one and his size will make him way better down low. I would then look to the free agent market to get that additional player. I'd initially try for Parise. If that is impossible, I'd consider throwing enough money at Alex Semin that he accepts a 1 year offer (even if it pushes us to the cap - if he's crap he can always be dealt to a team who wants add a player at a fraction of their salary)

We could then reevaluate next year when Corey Perry is a UFA.

I think the most important thing is to be accretive in our acquisitions. We have certain parts that don't need to be fixed. We have exemplary defense in our top 4, and we have average offense, an amazing PK, and a horrid PP.

That means to me we have to look at adding 3 players who fit the mold of (assuming Gaborik is not dealt):
A) 1st player must be dynamic offensively - ie: a good 1 on 1 player, who suits our system. (Rick Nash to me is the first player that comes to mind, Parise is a close 2nd)
B) A very solid right handed dman who can take pressure off Girardi (This may involve trading MDZ - but whoever it is, it would be nice if they had power play capabilities and a good shot. There are a lot of possibilities that come to mind: PK Subban, Shea Weber, or lesser pieces like Luke Schenn.
C) A depth dman who can play third pairing if a guy like MDZ is traded. This needs to be someone who is just solid. Ex: Hal Gill.


Last edited by ChrisKreider20: 05-30-2012 at 05:45 PM.
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Old
05-30-2012, 05:45 PM
  #56
UAGoalieGuy
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If I'm the Rangers brass, the order I would rank the teams top 4 dmen in terms of willingness to trade them would be :

MDZ then Staal (mainly bcuz of the teams depth of the left side, otherwise he'd be equal w Girardi), then Girardi, then McD.

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05-30-2012, 05:46 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
If I'm the Rangers brass, the order I would rank the teams top 4 dmen in terms of willingness to trade them would be :

MDZ then Staal (mainly bcuz of the teams depth of the left side, otherwise he'd be equal w Girardi), then Girardi, then McD.
This.

It's a shame MDZ isn't a righty b/c when MDZ is playing his natural side he is a much better player. Unfortunately he won't beat out McD or Staal on the depth chart.

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05-30-2012, 05:52 PM
  #58
UAGoalieGuy
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So what wing does Skinner play?

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05-30-2012, 05:53 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
So what wing does Skinner play?
Right from my understanding, but I think his skating would make him very versatile. I know he was drafted as a centre.

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05-30-2012, 06:00 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
Right from my understanding, but I think his skating would make him very versatile. I know he was drafted as a centre.
If that's the case then he would help solve the goal scoring problem but not so much the LW top 6 issue. May be run:

Hagelin - Stepan - Gaborik
Kreider - Richards - Skinner
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Ufa/Rupp - Boyle - Prust

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05-30-2012, 06:13 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
If that's the case then he would help solve the goal scoring problem but not so much the LW top 6 issue. May be run:

Hagelin - Stepan - Gaborik
Kreider - Richards - Skinner
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Ufa/Rupp - Boyle - Prust
Skinner is probably just as untouchable as E.Staal, and Faulk is close behind those two.

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05-30-2012, 06:17 PM
  #62
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Carolina needs Skinner more than they need Marc Staal. If the only way to get Staal in a Canes uniform involves Skinner going back the other way, then there is no deal to made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
So what wing does Skinner play?
LW.

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Old
05-30-2012, 06:34 PM
  #63
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It's not about his value among all other d-men in the league. It's about what Staal is worth to us and what it would cost to pry him away. We don't need futures, we need immediate offensive help. Eric Staal is ludicrous to even discuss, Jokinen appears to be long removed from his 30 goal season, and nobody else on your team cracked 40 points last year aside from Skinner.

Bad trading partners.
my team?

Im a flyers fan.

I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is to ask for skinner.
thats like asking for giroux

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05-30-2012, 07:42 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Kind of off topic, but is it offensive help or a different offensive system that the Rangers need (or maybe they are tied together)? The two Rangers games I watch here in Raleigh were by far the most boring games all season. Dump and chase, be physical, wait for the other team to make a mistake and take advantage of it. Even the Rangers fans who are typically a lot of fun when they are in the building were very quiet. Don't get me wrong, it worked for them and they were successful at it, but that style of play doesn't lend itself to a lot of scoring even if you add talent.

Just curious what your thoughts are.

Anyhow, I do agree with you on the other point. No reason for the Rangers to part way with Staal right now and it would cost the Canes too much to make it worth it for them to acquire him.
I think it's really a result of making do with what the team had at their disposal. We have some elite forwards in Gaborik and Richards, but the rest of the team is pretty green. I think what we have in NY is a team that is learning to play the right way, and they're going to grow from there. Get everyone on the same page defensively, and then when it's second nature, you ease up on the reins and let the offense bloom. Unfortunately, we're still a couple pieces shy of developing that kind of offense.

Our top-4 is great. Richards and Gaborik are legitimate first line players. Lundy is a beast. But we have a lot of "tweeners" in the sense that they haven't been in the NHL for very long, or they're simply not sure if they're scoring forward material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
my team?

Im a flyers fan.

I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is to ask for skinner.
thats like asking for giroux
My apologies for assuming. However, my point still stands. I don't think Skinner is in the same category as Giroux quite yet. Certainly possible though.

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05-30-2012, 07:58 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I think it's really a result of making do with what the team had at their disposal. We have some elite forwards in Gaborik and Richards, but the rest of the team is pretty green. I think what we have in NY is a team that is learning to play the right way, and they're going to grow from there. Get everyone on the same page defensively, and then when it's second nature, you ease up on the reins and let the offense bloom. Unfortunately, we're still a couple pieces shy of developing that kind of offense.

Our top-4 is great. Richards and Gaborik are legitimate first line players. Lundy is a beast. But we have a lot of "tweeners" in the sense that they haven't been in the NHL for very long, or they're simply not sure if they're scoring forward material.



My apologies for assuming. However, my point still stands. I don't think Skinner is in the same category as Giroux quite yet. Certainly possible though.
That's fine, I don't either (yet). But you have to understand no organization is moving him unless a BONIFIED #1 defenseman is coming back.

Weber
Doughty
Chara
Lidstrom
Hedman
Myers
Larsson?

Staal is a terrific Defenseman, but he's not at the same echelon as the true #1's

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05-30-2012, 08:13 PM
  #66
ChrisKreider20
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
That's fine, I don't either (yet). But you have to understand no organization is moving him unless a BONIFIED #1 defenseman is coming back.

Weber
Doughty
Chara
Lidstrom
Hedman
Myers
Larsson?


Staal is a terrific Defenseman, but he's not at the same echelon as the true #1's
Bold is debateable.
Underlined is retired.

When I say debateable:
Myers hasn't hit his rookie year form since his rookie year.
Hedman is anything but spectacular and probably worse defensively than Staal.
Larsson has hardly played all playoffs.

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05-30-2012, 09:33 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
That's fine, I don't either (yet). But you have to understand no organization is moving him unless a BONIFIED #1 defenseman is coming back.

Weber
Doughty
Chara
Lidstrom
Hedman
Myers
Larsson?

Staal is a terrific Defenseman, but he's not at the same echelon as the true #1's
Larsson? He can't even beat out Peter Harrold for a spot right now.

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05-30-2012, 09:38 PM
  #68
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Serious underrating of Marc Staal in this thread.

He's one of the best two way D-men in the league and is one of the few horses that can be a true shutdown D-man to big superstars in a playoff series.

***** ain't free. Gotta give a player of impact to get one.

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05-30-2012, 09:46 PM
  #69
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Would Pitkanen, Tlusty, 1st get M.Staal and Rupp?

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05-30-2012, 10:00 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
That's fine, I don't either (yet). But you have to understand no organization is moving him unless a BONIFIED #1 defenseman is coming back.

Weber
Doughty
Chara
Lidstrom
Hedman
Myers
Larsson?

Staal is a terrific Defenseman, but he's not at the same echelon as the true #1's
Before the concussion, he was 10-15 points away from being a true #1 and was trending upward. His offense comes up a little short, but that's the only thing keeping him from being an elite #1 d-man.

I realize the value of Skinner, and the potential he has. I was simply saying that we have no reason to move Staal for anything less than that type of player.

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05-30-2012, 10:20 PM
  #71
ChrisKreider20
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Would Pitkanen, Faulk, 1st get M.Staal and Rupp?
That would likely be the price or something close to that...

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05-30-2012, 10:22 PM
  #72
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Canes would never trade Skinner. He is one of the guys non hockey fans actually know about...

coming from a guy living in Raleigh.

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05-30-2012, 10:29 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
That would likely be the price or something close to that...
Two defensemen? I think you would see Pitkanen, McBain, 1st for M.Staal and Rupp before you would see Pitkanen, Faulk, 1st for M.Staal and Rupp. Either one of those deals still seem to be too much, tho.

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05-30-2012, 10:40 PM
  #74
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Two defensemen? I think you would see Pitkanen, McBain, 1st for M.Staal and Rupp before you would see Pitkanen, Faulk, 1st for M.Staal and Rupp. Either one of those deals still seem to be too much, tho.
The way that I put it earlier in the thread is this:

Staal is essentially a #1. He may not be an elite number one, but on many teams he would be the #1 guy. He's certainly a top 20 d in the NHL.

Skinner would be the closest comparable on the canes. He has more upside from his current performance so he has a bit more trade value than Staal, however, he would be the most comparable.

If you were looking to trade Skinner you would likely want:

-Top 6 forward
-Highly touted prospect/rookie
-1st

That may even be an underpayment in your eyes...

Would you do Dubinsky, Kreider and a 1st for Skinner?

The Rangers would look for something similar.

Pitkanen is probably a #3 guy on a good team
Faulk is the rookie
and the 1st is the 1st.

This is especially likely since the Canes are seeking the player. If the Rangers were soliciting offers, I'm sure the asking price would be lower.

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05-30-2012, 10:47 PM
  #75
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There's a big difference between the Rangers 1st and Carolina's 1st though.

And I don't see why there's such a fuss over Faulk instead of McBain. McBain's the better player right now. Faulk has the potential to be better, but since the Rangers are in win-now mode, given the choice between the two, McBain would be a better option for them.

Not that I think either could get Staal, just saying.

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