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The Official Offseason Thread (Part II) - Brooks: Rangers after Radulov

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Old
05-30-2012, 06:27 PM
  #126
Killem Dafoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If Torts was doing the talking, Howson would probably be crying after 3 minutes.

But seriously, the last few deals for superstars have been significant:

Mike Richards got:
Schenn
Simmonds
2nd rounder

Jeff Carter got:
2011 8th overall
Voracek
3rd rounder

Brent Burns got:
Setoguchi
Coyle
1st

Those are some hefty returns. Now, none of those players asked to be traded like Nash, nor do they carry as high of a cap hit, but he's a hell of a player.

You look at Dany Heatley and his debacle and he fetched Michalek, Cheechoo and a 2nd round draft choice. Heatley is a nutjob and Ottawa ultimately came out on top, but Heatley did in fact demand to be traded and had a NMC which gave him total control over the situation. Ottawa caved because the whole ordeal became a distraction. As good of a guy Nash is -- and he's a heck of a good guy -- I can't see him being thrilled with the idea of Howson throwing him under the bus and saying it was his idea to be traded.

Columbus doesn't have to trade Nash, but does management really want their young kids to get the impression that they treat their players like this? Does Ryan Johansen's opinion of Columbus get skewed because they refused to play ball with a guy who has given them a decade of service while they floundered around like morons? It's a really messed up situation.
bahaha oh Jesus i can't even right now after that one im a noob.

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05-30-2012, 06:37 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If Torts was doing the talking, Howson would probably be crying after 3 minutes.

But seriously, the last few deals for superstars have been significant:

Mike Richards got:
Schenn
Simmonds
2nd rounder

Jeff Carter got:
2011 8th overall
Voracek
3rd rounder

Brent Burns got:
Setoguchi
Coyle
1st

Those are some hefty returns. Now, none of those players asked to be traded like Nash, nor do they carry as high of a cap hit, but he's a hell of a player.

You look at Dany Heatley and his debacle and he fetched Michalek, Cheechoo and a 2nd round draft choice. Heatley is a nutjob and Ottawa ultimately came out on top, but Heatley did in fact demand to be traded and had a NMC which gave him total control over the situation. Ottawa caved because the whole ordeal became a distraction. As good of a guy Nash is -- and he's a heck of a good guy -- I can't see him being thrilled with the idea of Howson throwing him under the bus and saying it was his idea to be traded.

Columbus doesn't have to trade Nash, but does management really want their young kids to get the impression that they treat their players like this? Does Ryan Johansen's opinion of Columbus get skewed because they refused to play ball with a guy who has given them a decade of service while they floundered around like morons? It's a really messed up situation.
Ok after sitting in shame for a minute would have to agree yes, Torts would probabvly get the deal done at a steal.

I agree they don't have to trade him but i have a feeling it's as good as done. I think CBJ have derailed that train a while ago and Nash will be moved. To where is anybodies guess but I have a strong feeling Sather is going to snag us someone. Be it Nash via trade, Parise via FA, or Ryan via trade. We for sure need someone to score some big goals and come up big in pressure situations. I would personally be down with adding without subtracting but if a deal can get done that makes sense and lands us a guy like Nash or Ryan then I'm all about it.

I'd like to think, btw, that Kreider will be our big goal scorer but putting our eggs in one basket probably isn't the best idea right now, but in the future he's going to be huge.

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05-30-2012, 06:43 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
the team had a good yr. they won the East in the regular season and almost won it in the playoffs. Gaborik had a very good yr , you dont trade him. It makes no sense and will not happen

If you want to say sign Parise and if they dont get him trade for Nash ok fine but both will not happen. They are not going to blow up a good thing and yes this is a good thing even though some are still crying over the playoff loss
I understand your point but I don't agree with it.

IMO, Nash is a better player than Gaborik and more suited for this team than Gabby IMO. Parise is just like Dubinsky except with tons of talent (or maybe Callahan is a better example but saying Dubinsky for the upgrade reason)

Gaborik had a very poor playoff performance. IMO Nash & Parise would do much better. I also believe that Pittsburgh would have knocked us out if we faced them along with Boston in the playoffs this year. On the other hand I feel we could have easily dispatched the Flyers like the Devils did. We just got by the Sens and the Caps by the skin of our teeth, I def see changes & want changes for this team to improve. Gaborik is a player you can move and get something very good back.

You replace Gaborik & Dubinsky with Parise & Nash.
The parts you give up for Nash (which I would imagine includes Dubinsky) you try and get back with Gaborik.

No matter how I look at it, getting Parise and Nash is an upgrade over Dubi & Gabs.

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05-30-2012, 06:47 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Do you understand how trades work?

If Del Zotto didn't have a great season, he wouldn't have any value and he wouldn't be able to fetch the type of scorer we're discussing.

In order to get a good player in a trade, you have to give up some value as well. (the Gomez deal being the exception). Having Staal, McDonagh, Girardi allows us to explore the option of signing Schultz and/or Suter and then using Del Zotto as an asset to fill our biggest need / acquire a top line scoring winger.

It makes no sense to argue, "Player X had a good season! WHY ON EARTH would you trade him now?"

BECAUSE his value is high enough to get a good return! That's why!

The same reason I want to explore the interest in Gaborik around the league after a season in which he was healthy, playing all 82 games and scoring 40 goals before playing in 20 playoff games, even though his goal total was significantly down.

Standing pat = death. Especially when every other team in our division will likely improve.

Sauer is a question mark right now, for sure. But with Staal, McD, Girardi, being locks for the opening night roster, Erixon being pretty close to a lock as long as he puts on some muscle, McIlrath (who was close last pre-season) having a very good chance, the possibility of adding Schultz or Suter (or both), and the possibility of bringing back Stralman for cheap, you'd be nuts to ignore the possibility of dealing DZ to add some legit top 6 talent to a lineup barren of it. You cant label every single homegrown player "untouchable." It's just not realistic. If Nash and Ryan are "touchable" enough to be considered for a trade, then Michael Del Zotto is certainly expendable for the right return. Reality, my friend. Can you dig it?
Ryan Suter is not coming to the Rangers. You are not going to get him here. He will be in Detroit where they will have a void after Lidstrom retires tomorrow. No team will give him what he wants expect the Wings (Money, top pairing minutes, top PP minutes, and a chance to win it all.) Or, he'll end up back in Nashville playing with Weber.

You don't trade a 21 yr old D who just put up 40 points in a season and has shown signs of improved play. Nobody was complaining about him in the Caps series when he scored the GWG in game 7. People need to realize that he is YOUNGER than McDonagh. The offense needs depth. Look at the two teams in the finals the last two years. Boston had legit 3rd liners (Peverley, Kelly, Marchand) which allowed their 4th liners (Campbell, Thornton, Paille, etc) to play on that line. Same thing with Vancouver and their third line (Malhotra, Hanssen, Higgins). New Jersey has a strong 3rd as well (Combos over Zubrus, Poni, Clarkson, Henrique, Josefson) and LA (Lewis, King, Stoll).

The Rangers had too many guys that were 4th liners last season playing where they should not have been. Fedotenko, Prust, Rupp, Mitchell, Boyle. Those are 4th liners. At points in the season and playoffs, all of the following players played on lines that they should not have been on. Feds stepped his game up in the NJ and WSH series and gave this team a shot to make the finals by filling out a good top 9. Adding depth to this team will only make it better. They aren't flashy moves, but they are moves that put the team in a better position to win games. Torts said it himself, the team needs more depth and with more depth will come more scoring. You don't have to add a big star player every offseason to improve the offense.

The team has top offensive players already, but they are young and learning the game (Stepan and Kreider) or had a down regular season (Richards and to a lesser extent Dubi and Anisimov as top players) or playoffs(Gaborik and Cally). The way you make this team better is by adding to it, not subtracting pieces that ALREADY work on the chance an impact player will come in, fit into the team and players coming in to replace the other players who left for depth work out as well. That's how the old group used to do things and we all know how that worked for the team. This isn't the NBA where you can combine superstars, surround them with relatively old role players and win championships.

This organization and coaching staff isn't looking to make a 1-2 year run at the Cup. They want to be good for the long haul and that means keeping improving, talented, cheaper, young players. Rich Nash is not cheaper and most likely has hit his ceiling.

Also, how do we know Tim Erixon is ready for the NHL nonetheless top 4 NHL minutes? Same thing with McIlrath. We know DZ can already do it, so why are you going to add more question marks or have to bring in FA's with bigger contracts to keep these players. I'm confident the management group isn't as short-sighted as people are here and are going to continue with the plan that was put in place when Torts came here: inject youth into the line-up every season and look to get better by adding solid-two way players when needed.

Their big free agent signing is already on the team and his name is Brad Richards. Look at the trend with the Rangers going back to Gaborik, they skip an offseason of signing a big player, see how things develop with younger players, make moves where needed after that.

The Rangers are not in a position to add another big contract onto their books without moving one of the others out first are directly after. The other players are immovable based on clauses in their contracts and the fact the team is NOT willing to part with them while in the primes of their career.

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05-30-2012, 06:55 PM
  #130
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Would not mind replacing Gabby and Dubs with Parise and Nash.

Parise, Nash, Schultz, and adding a guy like Whitney, Kelly, Jones or 2 out of the 3 would be an amazing offseason.

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05-30-2012, 07:04 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Do you understand how trades work?

If Del Zotto didn't have a great season, he wouldn't have any value and he wouldn't be able to fetch the type of scorer we're discussing.

In order to get a good player in a trade, you have to give up some value as well. (the Gomez deal being the exception). Having Staal, McDonagh, Girardi allows us to explore the option of signing Schultz and/or Suter and then using Del Zotto as an asset to fill our biggest need / acquire a top line scoring winger.

It makes no sense to argue, "Player X had a good season! WHY ON EARTH would you trade him now?"

BECAUSE his value is high enough to get a good return! That's why!

The same reason I want to explore the interest in Gaborik around the league after a season in which he was healthy, playing all 82 games and scoring 40 goals before playing in 20 playoff games, even though his goal total was significantly down.

Standing pat = death. Especially when every other team in our division will likely improve.

Sauer is a question mark right now, for sure. But with Staal, McD, Girardi, being locks for the opening night roster, Erixon being pretty close to a lock as long as he puts on some muscle, McIlrath (who was close last pre-season) having a very good chance, the possibility of adding Schultz or Suter (or both), and the possibility of bringing back Stralman for cheap, you'd be nuts to ignore the possibility of dealing DZ to add some legit top 6 talent to a lineup barren of it. You cant label every single homegrown player "untouchable." It's just not realistic. If Nash and Ryan are "touchable" enough to be considered for a trade, then Michael Del Zotto is certainly expendable for the right return. Reality, my friend. Can you dig it?
There's no way of knowing if these trades will pan out. We do know that we have a good young player in Del Zotto. No need to get rid of him.

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05-30-2012, 07:07 PM
  #132
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Sather said. “I mean those are wish-lists that every team in this league would like to have. Realistically, there are some people that are gonna be available. But they’re not available until July 1. So you really can’t talk about any of those guys.”

Sounds like he's not anticipating a trade for scoring help.

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05-30-2012, 07:13 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Do you understand how trades work?

If Del Zotto didn't have a great season, he wouldn't have any value and he wouldn't be able to fetch the type of scorer we're discussing.

In order to get a good player in a trade, you have to give up some value as well. (the Gomez deal being the exception). Having Staal, McDonagh, Girardi allows us to explore the option of signing Schultz and/or Suter and then using Del Zotto as an asset to fill our biggest need / acquire a top line scoring winger.

It makes no sense to argue, "Player X had a good season! WHY ON EARTH would you trade him now?"

BECAUSE his value is high enough to get a good return! That's why!

The same reason I want to explore the interest in Gaborik around the league after a season in which he was healthy, playing all 82 games and scoring 40 goals before playing in 20 playoff games, even though his goal total was significantly down.

Standing pat = death. Especially when every other team in our division will likely improve.

Sauer is a question mark right now, for sure. But with Staal, McD, Girardi, being locks for the opening night roster, Erixon being pretty close to a lock as long as he puts on some muscle, McIlrath (who was close last pre-season) having a very good chance, the possibility of adding Schultz or Suter (or both), and the possibility of bringing back Stralman for cheap, you'd be nuts to ignore the possibility of dealing DZ to add some legit top 6 talent to a lineup barren of it. You cant label every single homegrown player "untouchable." It's just not realistic. If Nash and Ryan are "touchable" enough to be considered for a trade, then Michael Del Zotto is certainly expendable for the right return. Reality, my friend. Can you dig it?
Couldn't agree more. If we were trading for a 36 yr old with a year or two left then I can understand why a trade shouldn't be considered. Whoever is considered, needs to be a top 3 forward who can sore on the PP. I believe the Rangers will continue to need offensive help far more than they will need a #4 defenseman with promise. If they can't extract a price for giving up a young potentially talented player then no trade should be considered.

Clearly, many believe that the Rangers should:

1)Pay cash
2)Steal a player or don't consider the deal.
3)We can win making cosmetic changes.

The game the Rangers played looked like it was taking a toll towards the end of the season into the playoffs. I suspect that if only a couple small changes are made the team will take a step back next season.


Last edited by ltrangerfan: 05-30-2012 at 07:26 PM.
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Old
05-30-2012, 07:17 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Sounds like he's not anticipating a trade for scoring help.
Wish I could get into his head to see he's going to target come July 1st.

Im really just hoping for Schultz, a vet dman like Allen, and either Kelly or Gaustad.

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05-30-2012, 07:20 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by EEDAWGZ View Post
I think Dubi has a bounce back yr , had enough of Anisimov, put him in a package deal,we are in desperate need of scoring .At the same time I don't want to make our redundant mistakes of overpaying a lazy veteran
Seriously just have to laugh at this... How man chances does he get? While Anisimov get's one?

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05-30-2012, 07:22 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Sounds like he's not anticipating a trade for scoring help.
Depends on what the question was, he may have been directly answering a question regarding free agency. Also you never know who will be available via trade so it's really hard to say anything definitive.

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05-30-2012, 07:27 PM
  #137
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I understand your point but I don't agree with it.

IMO, Nash is a better player than Gaborik and more suited for this team than Gabby IMO. Parise is just like Dubinsky except with tons of talent (or maybe Callahan is a better example but saying Dubinsky for the upgrade reason)

Gaborik had a very poor playoff performance. IMO Nash & Parise would do much better. I also believe that Pittsburgh would have knocked us out if we faced them along with Boston in the playoffs this year. On the other hand I feel we could have easily dispatched the Flyers like the Devils did. We just got by the Sens and the Caps by the skin of our teeth, I def see changes & want changes for this team to improve. Gaborik is a player you can move and get something very good back.

You replace Gaborik & Dubinsky with Parise & Nash.
The parts you give up for Nash (which I would imagine includes Dubinsky) you try and get back with Gaborik.

No matter how I look at it, getting Parise and Nash is an upgrade over Dubi & Gabs.
Based on what?

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05-30-2012, 07:45 PM
  #138
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Based on what?
How about Nash is probably the best power forward in the game right now. How about Nash fits this Ranger team like a glove. How about we haven't had an impact player like Rick Nash since Jagr. How about Rick Nash could have the same impact on this club that Mark Messier had when he joined (obviously different positions, past cups, ect) but the impact moving this club to the next level will be very similar. Nash has been an exceptional player in Columbus throughout his career without playing alongside much talent. With a top line center like Brad Richards on his line in New York, Nash's production would skyrocket and he'd become a household superstar, while earning the national recognition he deserves here in NYC. This is Carmelo Anthony big. He's a tremendous power forward whose physical play and toughness would fit in perfectly on Broadway. Rick Nash is by far a better player than Gaborik and I've got a Gabby jersey & I'm a HUGE fan of his. But guess what? I'm a bigger fan of the New York Rangers & Nash is the missing part of the puzzle for me. Nash = Cup.

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05-30-2012, 07:48 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
How about Nash is probably the best power forward in the game right now. How about Nash fits this Ranger team like a glove. How about we haven't had an impact player like Rick Nash since Jagr. How about Rick Nash could have the same impact on this club that Mark Messier had when he joined (obviously different positions, past cups, ect) but the impact moving this club to the next level will be very similar. Nash has been an exceptional player in Columbus throughout his career without playing alongside much talent. With a top line center like Brad Richards on his line in New York, Nash's production would skyrocket and he'd become a household superstar, while earning the national recognition he deserves here in NYC. This is Carmelo Anthony big. He's a tremendous power forward whose physical play and toughness would fit in perfectly on Broadway. Rick Nash is by far a better player than Gaborik and I've got a Gabby jersey & I'm a HUGE fan of his. But guess what? I'm a bigger fan of the New York Rangers & Nash is the missing part of the puzzle for me. Nash = Cup.
When we initially signed Gaborik, wasn't he supposed to be all those things?

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05-30-2012, 07:51 PM
  #140
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When we initially signed Gaborik, wasn't he supposed to be all those things?
I don't remember any one saying any of those things about Gaborik, except his production skyrocketing (easy 60 goals).

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05-30-2012, 07:56 PM
  #141
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When we initially signed Gaborik, wasn't he supposed to be all those things?
When did anyone ever think Gaborik was a power forward? Let alone an elite power forward?

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05-30-2012, 08:03 PM
  #142
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When did anyone ever think Gaborik was a power forward? Let alone an elite power forward?
He's not a power forward at all, but he was supposed to be the key guy that we brought in and could build around. He was supposed to help carry this team with his point production and score big goals. Richards was brought in to play along side him. Nash would bring that additional power dimension to the team, but how much more is he going to produce offensively than Gaborik has? Nash is a great player, but I don't think he's that far ahead of Gaborik and I'm not so sure he's the answer.

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05-30-2012, 08:05 PM
  #143
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Not sure if Rick Nash is physical enough to be considered one of the best power forwards in the game. Evander Kane, Jamie Benn, Scott Hartnell, David Backes, etc. play more of a prototypical power forward game. Nash is a talented player and he has size, but I don't think he possesses a lot of the grittiness that I associate with power forwards.

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05-30-2012, 08:11 PM
  #144
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Not sure if Rick Nash is physical enough to be considered one of the best power forwards in the game. Evander Kane, Jamie Benn, Scott Hartnell, David Backes, etc. play more of a prototypical power forward game. Nash is a talented player and he has size, but I don't think he possesses a lot of the grittiness that I associate with power forwards.
fans wouldnt want him cause he doesnt use his size...he would get booed alot here...and way overpaid...much rather have Ryan, Benn, Backes, Hartnell than Nash.

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05-30-2012, 08:15 PM
  #145
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Rick Nash is by far a better player than Gaborik
Gaborik 3 time 40 goal scorer, Nash twice

Gaborik .45 goals per game, .89 points per game career.
Nash .43 goals per game, .81 points per game career.

Yes Nash is the far better player.

Oh I forgot, if Nash gets here and plays with Richards he'll score 60, right?
Wasn't that said about Gaborik? He came from a team with no elite centers as well.

Nash is a huge mistake, trading a lot of good young assets for a 60-70 point player with a bad long term contract.
He's not going to magically turn into Bret Hull when he gets here and start scoring 70 goals a year.
What he's been doing his whole career is what he would do here.

Oh I forgot he's big and Canadian so he's obviously better, plus I'm sure he'll turn into Mark Messier come playoff time.

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05-30-2012, 08:30 PM
  #146
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that is fantasy land. Gaborik is just fine and will be on this team. They need to help him and if they strike out on Parise then its a trade.........3rd option is a 1 yr vet like Jagr or Whitney
I'm so sick of hearing we need to HELP Gaborik. Is this a ****ing joke? We got him Brad Richards, then we found a good winger to dig out picks in Hagelin. Now we need more secondary scoring to take the pressure off Gaborik? When does Gaborik help the team out? Ridiculous.

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05-30-2012, 08:34 PM
  #147
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I'd rather have Konopka over Gaustad personally.

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05-30-2012, 08:37 PM
  #148
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There's no way of knowing if these trades will pan out. We do know that we have a good young player in Del Zotto. No need to get rid of him.
Based on that line of thinking, we should never take the risk involved with ANY trades OR signings.

I'm not suggesting to trade him for the sake of trading him. I want to trade a player with value in a package with a few other pieces to fix our PRIMARY scoring problem.

Even if we were to trade DZ for Ovechkin, there's risk. DZ may go on to have a very successful career while Ovechkin could suffer a career-ending injury in his first practice as a Ranger and never play a game.

You're argument is completely irrelevant.

If we can add either of Schultz/Suter, or Sauer makes significant progress towards full recovery, it would be poor asset management to NOT explore the option of trading Del Zotto for a top 6 scorer.

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05-30-2012, 08:37 PM
  #149
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I'd rather have Konopka over Gaustad personally.
Konopka may be a better faceoff man (tho Gaus is very very good there), but Gaustad is a much better player at everything else.

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05-30-2012, 08:38 PM
  #150
HatTrick Swayze
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Sounds like he's not anticipating a trade for scoring help.
Could also be posturing. I don't exactly expect him to call Howson and go "Hey! Del Zotto and Stepan are available now!"

EDIT - Not that I think they are...just hypothetically.

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Last edited by HatTrick Swayze: 05-30-2012 at 08:58 PM.
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