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Hockey’s Future Organizational Rankings, Spring 2012: 21-30

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Old
05-29-2012, 06:50 PM
  #26
Ashasx
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Its actually Comical that the Avs are behind Calgary, and so far back.

I really hope this only takes into account prospects, and not recently graduated forwards like Landeskog Duchene, Oreilly etc.

If this looks at the team as a whole, its comical to say the least.

Even just prospects, the Avs have 4 very promising Defensive propsects, and 2/3 decent forward prospects, aswell as 3 decent Goalie prospects.

Comical, HF Writers /scouts/whatever they are, are absolutly horrible.
Landeskog, Duchene, and O'Reilly are not considered prospects, and this list only considers prospects.

The amount of weight you place on such a list is your own subjective opinion.

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05-29-2012, 06:51 PM
  #27
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I don't see how they can put Freddie Hamilton as the Sharks' top prospect yet only give him a "6.5C" grade. (Which I already think is low). If they think he is better than Nieto (7.0C), Doherty (8.0D), then at least fix the prospect grades for continuity.

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05-29-2012, 06:52 PM
  #28
gojackets1
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Obligatory "my team is underrated".
Yeah, well...

I think they're ranked appropriately, up until the draft.

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05-29-2012, 06:53 PM
  #29
Ashasx
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
I don't see how they can put Freddie Hamilton as the Sharks' top prospect yet only give him a "6.5C" grade. (Which I already think is low). If they think he is better than Nieto (7.0C), Doherty (8.0D), then at least fix the prospect grades for continuity.
Have they even updated the rankings from last off-season?

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Old
05-29-2012, 07:07 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Its actually Comical that the Avs are behind Calgary, and so far back.

I really hope this only takes into account prospects, and not recently graduated forwards like Landeskog Duchene, Oreilly etc.

If this looks at the team as a whole, its comical to say the least.

Even just prospects, the Avs have 4 very promising Defensive propsects, and 2/3 decent forward prospects, aswell as 3 decent Goalie prospects.

Comical, HF Writers /scouts/whatever they are, are absolutly horrible.
Well the avs have had Duchene, Landeskog, Varlamov & O'Reilly graduate they only have a couple of potential studs left and the rest are "Filler". While I think they belong in the 18-24 range not having any potential high impact forwards hurts their ranking (If Hishon & Olver were healthy they would have been in the high teens ).

With such question marks on forward is it really that outrageous that they be ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league? They have an above average Defence pool, average goalie pool, but the forward pool is possible the worst in the league and that brings them down quite a bit.


Last edited by DatsyukToZetterberg: 05-29-2012 at 07:16 PM.
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Old
05-29-2012, 07:12 PM
  #31
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Why don't people do the right thing and treat all of these rankings for what they are...biased articles written by random people on the internet and then compiled into some inane ranking.

They mean nothing.

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Old
05-29-2012, 07:26 PM
  #32
Lonewolfe2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
Yeah, well...

I think they're ranked appropriately, up until the draft.
The Avs have the best prospect pool of the 10 organizations listed, yet they are 24th.

E: And ignore Avsare1, he doesn't understand how these lists are compiled.

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05-29-2012, 07:46 PM
  #33
Trafalgar Law
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New Jersey and Calgary ahead of Washington and Colorado? WTF? And I know Washington doesn't have much depth, but Kuznetsov and Holtby alone should get them out of the bottom 5, they should be 15-20th.

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05-29-2012, 07:50 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
The Avs have the best prospect pool of the 10 organizations listed, yet they are 24th.

E: And ignore Avsare1, he doesn't understand how these lists are compiled.
I don't think they have the best prospect pool of that ten. They have a couple good ones, but no depth. I'd take Washington for their top end talent and NJD for their D before taking the Avs pool.

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05-29-2012, 07:55 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Victorious Secret View Post
I don't think they have the best prospect pool of that ten. They have a couple good ones, but no depth. I'd take Washington for their top end talent and NJD for their D before taking the Avs pool.
This.

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05-29-2012, 07:57 PM
  #36
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Good article with solid info in general, but one glaring head scratcher, which is the Caps at 27th. High end prospects are far more important than depth, and the Caps are totally stacked in terms of high end prospects. Kuznetsov, Holtby, Orlov, Eakin and Galiev, that's an absolutely KILLER top 5! The only real weakness is question marks over whether or not Kuznetsov will come over, but he probably will eventually, and teams are generally not docked much for "the Russian factor" on these lists, in the past they've generally been more about the talent of the prospects than whether or not they'll come over. Even with the Kuznetsov question marks, I have to think that easily 20+ teams would trade all of their prospects for all of the Caps prospects, therefore the Caps should be rated top 10, not virtually last. They've got a guy who has a good shot to be not just a top line forward, but a true star (Kuznetsov), a guy who could pretty easily be a solid starting goalie (Holtby), a dman who could easily be a top 3 dman (Orlov), and at least a few more prospects who look likely to be NHLers (Eakins, Galiev, etc.). There's no way there are 26 teams with a better group than that, as a Leafs fan I'd trade a tonne of Colborne/Biggs/Blacker/Percy/Holzer/D'Amigo/etc. level prospects for guys like Kuznetsov and Holtby.


Last edited by ponder: 05-29-2012 at 08:03 PM.
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Old
05-29-2012, 07:59 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
The Avs have the best prospect pool of the 10 organizations listed, yet they are 24th.

E: And ignore Avsare1, he doesn't understand how these lists are compiled.
You can make that statement definitively? I'm not surprised the Avs are so low as all of their great prospects graduated into the NHL and thus no longer qualify as "prospects". The only recent first round pick not in the NHL is Hishon who just missed an entire seasons with PCS This list says nothing about the future state of the team.

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05-29-2012, 08:14 PM
  #38
ponder
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
You can make that statement definitively? I'm not surprised the Avs are so low as all of their great prospects graduated into the NHL and thus no longer qualify as "prospects". The only recent first round pick not in the NHL is Hishon who just missed an entire seasons with PCS This list says nothing about the future state of the team.
Landeskog is the only one who graduated, though Hishon sustained a potentially career altering injury as well.

Even still, in the fall of 2011, when Landeskog was still a prospect, and the seriousness of Hishon's concussion was not know, they still had Colorado ranked pretty low at 19th overall:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article..._fall20111120/

For me that was way too low for a team with great forward prospects (Landeskog, Hishon, Olver, etc.), great d prospects (Elliott, Siemens, Barrie, Gaunce, etc.), and even a some good goalie prospects like Pickard. I can see why they're ranked lower now, with Landeskog graduating and Hishon's future sketchier, but this does show that HFboards have been ranking them surprisingly low for awhile.


Last edited by ponder: 05-29-2012 at 08:20 PM.
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Old
05-29-2012, 08:21 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
You can make that statement definitively? I'm not surprised the Avs are so low as all of their great prospects graduated into the NHL and thus no longer qualify as "prospects". The only recent first round pick not in the NHL is Hishon who just missed an entire seasons with PCS This list says nothing about the future state of the team.
Duncan Siemens, 11th overall last year. Mobile 6'4" aggressive defender that has top pairing upside.

Stefan Elliott, WHL defender of the year, 30 goal scorer and a deadly wrister. Top 4 upside if he can't find his defensive game, but if he can learn to play a solid positional defensive game he could be a 2/3 tweener.

Tyson Barrie, WHL defender of the year, good 2-way play, top 4 upside. Should be at worst a 4-5 NHL defender.

Cameron Gaunce, 2-way defender that played a sound AHL game and is developing nicely. Looks to be 5-6 at worst because of his mean streak and strong defensive game.

That is a solid defensive pool.

Combine that with a deep goaltending crops that consists of Sami Aittokallio (was a stud at the worlds), Calvin Pickard (set junior records for most saves over career), Kent Patterson (lit up the NCAA before signing) and Kieran Millan (admittedly underwhelming, but still an average goaltending prospect).

Solid goaltending pool.

As far as the forwards go,

We have Joey Hishon who has top 6 upside, word is he has begun training and his whiplash symptoms have subsided. He worked with Andy McDonald to get healthy.

Michael Sgarbossa, OHL top scorer last season, top 6 upside.

Mark Olver, showed some solid play after his nasty concussion last season. Has decent hands, 2/3 prospect. Agitator.

Brad Malone, surprised many by giving a solid callup performance. Played in an offensive role for LEM despite being considered no better than a grinder, he beat expectations and continues to improve. Likely a solid 3rd liner in the future.

Admittedly nothing special, we have better than nothing at forward given the amount of graduations there we've had over the years recently.

The strength lies in our overall depth and our top end defensive prospects, as well as having a few very good goaltenders which weigh the odds in our favor to get a starter out of them.

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Old
05-29-2012, 08:22 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Landeskog is the only one who graduated, though Hishon sustained a potentially career altering injury as well.

Even still, in the fall of 2011, when Landeskog was still a prospect, and the seriousness of Hishon's concussion was not know, they still had Colorado ranked pretty low at 19th overall:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article..._fall20111120/

For me that was way too low for a team with great forward prospects (Landeskog, Hishon, Olver, etc.), great d prospects (Elliott, Siemens, Barrie, Gaunce, etc.), and even a some good goalie prospects like Pickard. I can see why they're ranked lower now, with Landeskog graduating and Hishon's future sketchier, but this does show that HFboards have been ranking them surprisingly low for awhile.
True but Duchene and O'Reilly are also prime "prospect age" but in the NHL so they don't qualify. The majority of teams have both their 1st and 2nd rounders from 2009 qualifying as "prospects" still who are certainly not a better combination to have than Duchene and O'Reilly. But it vaults them higher onto Prospect Rankings.

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Old
05-29-2012, 08:49 PM
  #41
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Have they even updated the rankings from last off-season?
No. I'm interested to see them.

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Old
05-30-2012, 12:04 AM
  #42
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How is Calgary not 28th?

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Old
05-30-2012, 12:07 AM
  #43
Ashasx
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How is Calgary not 28th?
Emergence of Baertschi, Gaudreau, Brossoit, Reinhart, Ferland, Brodie, Arnold.

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05-30-2012, 12:09 AM
  #44
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Just going by top 5:

NJ (22):

Quote:
Top 5 Prospects: 1. Jon Merrill, D, 2. Scott Wedgewood, G, 3. Alexander Urbom, D, 4. Eric Gelinas, D, 5. Brandon Burlon, D.
And Calgary (23):

Quote:
Top 5 Prospects: 1. Sven Baertschi, LW, 2. T.J. Brodie, D, 3. Greg Nemisz, RW, 4. Leland Irving, G, 5. Max Reinhart, C.
Vs. Colorado (24):

Quote:
Top 5 Prospects: Sefan (sic) Elliot, D, 2. Duncan Siemens, D, 3. Cameron Gaunce, D, 4. Tyson Barrie, D, 5. Mark Olver, C.
And Washington (27):

Quote:
Top 5 Prospects: 1. Yevgeni Kuznetsov, RW, 2. Braden Holtby, G, 3. Dmitri Orlov, D, 4. Cody Eakin, C, 5. Stanislav Galiev, LW
Yeah, I'm taking Washington's or Colorado's prospects over Calgary's and NJ's. Calgary's, especially, looks pretty barren after Brodie (Irving is a maybe; I'd have him higher than Nemisz).

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05-30-2012, 12:13 AM
  #45
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^^^

Those lists from 1 to 5 for each team do not appear to be updated for this off-season.

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05-30-2012, 12:31 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by DJB View Post
How is Calgary not 28th?
Calgary had a hell of a draft last season.

Sven Baertschi ----> What is there to say that hasn't already been mentioned. Probably the best prospect outside of Kuznetsov on this list.

John Gaudreau ---> Arguably the best freshmen in college hockey. Was recently just listed as the 2nd best prospect not signed to an NHL deal in collegiate hockey by HF.

Markus Granlund ----> Personally I feel he should have won the rookie of the year in the SM-Liiga. Produced on par with the likes of Armia, etc...

Laurent Brossoit ----> WHL Playoff MVP. Outstanding #'s all season. Potential starter for Canada at the WJC's next year.

Tyler Wotherspoon ----> Good offensive step this season in Portland. Go to defensive player on a stacked defensive unit for the Winterhawks. Safe, but solid selection.

----------------------

I realize most team's have had player progression, but I truly believe Calgary had one of the better drafts of any team last year.

Things are looking up here in Calgary. We still have a long way to go but it's certainly heading in the right direction.

The only team that I clearly see that is ahead of Calgary would be Washington. It's an incredibly small margin between most of these teams anyways. Really tough to put a projection on all of these players and differentiate from there.

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05-30-2012, 12:36 AM
  #47
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Jon Merill is top 30 prospect in the league.

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Old
05-30-2012, 02:52 PM
  #48
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Yea, I guess if Duchene, Oreilly, Landeskog etc. arent included for the Avs they arent a Top 10 team anymore(If they were included, then They would be close to #1).

IMO its not really fair for a guy who's 21 like Duchene to be excluded from the list, while someone who is 23/24 like Nyquist are included. Just because one is in the NHL and the other isnt, doesnt mean that one is no longer develloping while the other is. I mean theyre both still young players who have lots of room to grow, so why should one be excluded and the other included, especially when the excluded is 2 years younger than the other.

IMO they shouldnt judge it based on whether a player is in the NHL or not, it should be an age limit. Any player under the age of say 21 is still considered a prospect, and any player over isnt. Maybe 21 is to low, as some prospects are late bloomers, so maybe 23.

I dunno, never really agreed with the whole Prospect groupings and stuff, to me Duchene, Tavares, Hall, etc. are all still prospects, theyre all still far from there potential, and still have a good 3/4 years to grow before theyre devellopment stalls.

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05-30-2012, 03:30 PM
  #49
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Then you're not doing prospect ratings, you're merely doing teams with the best under 23 players or whatever. Frankly I find that list a lot less interesting. Crosby would have been on your list forever....

Everyone is already familiar with NHL rosters and how they stack together, there's really no point for having the rule set of this list the way you're proposing. The reason people want to read these lists is because it's that much more difficult to follow and gauge "prospects" from team to team.

The whole concept of a prospect is someone that has yet to make the big club, all those players you listed have made it.

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05-30-2012, 10:01 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Yea, I guess if Duchene, Oreilly, Landeskog etc. arent included for the Avs they arent a Top 10 team anymore(If they were included, then They would be close to #1).

IMO its not really fair for a guy who's 21 like Duchene to be excluded from the list, while someone who is 23/24 like Nyquist are included. Just because one is in the NHL and the other isnt, doesnt mean that one is no longer develloping while the other is. I mean theyre both still young players who have lots of room to grow, so why should one be excluded and the other included, especially when the excluded is 2 years younger than the other.

IMO they shouldnt judge it based on whether a player is in the NHL or not, it should be an age limit. Any player under the age of say 21 is still considered a prospect, and any player over isnt. Maybe 21 is to low, as some prospects are late bloomers, so maybe 23.

I dunno, never really agreed with the whole Prospect groupings and stuff, to me Duchene, Tavares, Hall, etc. are all still prospects, theyre all still far from there potential, and still have a good 3/4 years to grow before theyre devellopment stalls.
Duchene and OReilly each have played 3 season's and over 200 games in the NHL. Not Prospects, they are developing NHL players. You want a list of top young NHL players under 23 start a post.

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