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05-30-2012, 10:27 PM
  #76
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Nash is awesome but he's just not worth the price. The only thing I could see happening value and cap wise would be a Nash for Gaborik deal.

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05-30-2012, 10:28 PM
  #77
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At best Nash is a slight upgrade of Gaborik--though you could just as well argue the opposite that Gaborik is a slight upgrade of Nash--and keeping in mind that Nash has 6 years left on his present contract as opposed to 2 for Gaborik and a few years down the road and we might be just as frustrated with him as we are at times with Gaborik. And so we throw in Dubinsky and a 1st as well?

If you have to do a deal with Nash and Gaborik as the principals--and let's leave Vancouver out of it altogether--they have a problem with Luongo--let them figure it out for themselves--Columbus gets Gaborik and Dubinsky and we get Nash and their 1st in 2013--since I can't see them giving up the No. 2 overall this year. Columbus adds 2 legit NHL forwards and we add one and a likely premier draft pick. Columbus gets more cap flexibility getting Gaborik for two years and we're tied up with Nash one way or another for 6.

Personally I don't see Columbus doing that--even if they were looking at it more realistically than they've shown so far--Dubinsky, McDonagh, Kreider, 1st's in 2012-2013 is really a ****ing joke. My proposal might not be altogether fair to them but it's a damn sight closer to even than Howson's proposal to us.

But really--why even bother. Rather keep Gaborik and Dubinsky. With only 2 years left on Gaborik--we can make other moves if that doesn't work out. At least we'll have options. Bring in Nash for Gaborik and it's more likely we won't have options.

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05-30-2012, 10:29 PM
  #78
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Highly doubt they trade any of the young guys at this point in time.

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05-30-2012, 10:37 PM
  #79
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Someone get the Brinks truck loaded up for Zach. Slats is on the prowl.

a fav of mine...

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05-30-2012, 10:52 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
When Gaborik decides to show up game in and game out, and not take weeks off. Then we can discuss Gaborik being on Nash's level.

STATS do not tell the whole story.

Beyond that "bingo" **** pisses me off.

Who said any trade WOULD happen.

It was all discussed for ***** sake.

Get off your high horse.

I've said MANY ****ing times no big trades are likely to happen.
Not trying to be a dick or stir the pot, but try practicing what you preach.

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05-30-2012, 11:01 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Yea well I think you're looking too much at the stats. I'm one of Gaborik's biggest supporters but he's just not what he used to be. He used to be more explosive, he used to be able to create his opportunities, he used to be a difference maker on the ice. He has been relegated to a situational player, someone who positions himself well and takes advantage of his opportunities. Unfortunately, in the playoffs defenses' tighten up and it becomes increasingly harder to position yourself for the best opportunity to score. Gaborik is not physical enough to succeed at that type of game. That's why we saw him disappear in the playoffs.

Additionally, Gaborik is one of the most injury prone players in the league. All the offensive ability and previous stats do not mean much if he's not on the ice to produce them. Last year would be considered an outlier in his career as it was the first time he played in every game of the season.

That trade would be amazing, but I don't think the other teams accept it.
And in his whole career, Rick Nash has barely had a taste of the playoffs getting swept in the first round years back. What makes you think he would be any better than Gaborik was?

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05-30-2012, 11:04 PM
  #82
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At this point dont even go for Nash. We will have almost no wiggle room. He's gaborik similar, but a bit more gritty. Not worth 6 years of 8 mil, though

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05-30-2012, 11:06 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
And in his whole career, Rick Nash has barely had a taste of the playoffs getting swept in the first round years back. What makes you think he would be any better than Gaborik was?
What's to say he wouldn't be? It's all speculation.

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05-30-2012, 11:08 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
When Gaborik decides to show up game in and game out, and not take weeks off. Then we can discuss Gaborik being on Nash's level.

STATS do not tell the whole story.

Beyond that "bingo" **** pisses me off.

Who said any trade WOULD happen.

It was all discussed for ***** sake.

Get off your high horse.

I've said MANY ****ing times no big trades are likely to happen.
Just as a contrast, I looked at Nash and Gaborik's regular seasons.

Gaborik's longest goal-less drought was 7 games. Second longest was 5 games.

Nash's longest goal-less drought was 7 games also, but he went 7 games w/o a goal two seperate times. And beyond that he also went 5 games without a goal in another instance.

Gaborik is on a better team though, so make of it what you will.

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05-30-2012, 11:10 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
What's to say he wouldn't be? It's all speculation.
Nothing says he wouldn't be, but a lot of people are acting as if it is not just speculation and it is a fact that this team will be better off with Nash than Gaborik.

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05-30-2012, 11:12 PM
  #86
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Stop looking at stats.

Look at the compete level of each player.

Gaborik's compete level is atrocious a solid portion of the time.

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05-30-2012, 11:13 PM
  #87
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Has anyone here actually watched playoff hockey before? The top scoters on every team typically get shut down in the later rounds. Anyone remember how well Crosby and Toews did in the SCF the years they won? They didn't do much. Gaborik and Richards could have been better against NJ, but not that much better.

Trading Gaborik just allows other teams a much easier matchup, and guys like Kreider and Callahan have an even harder time finding space. Depth wins in the playoffs. The Devils bottom six dominated ours in terms of points and that's a large reason they're playing tonigt. Trading a 40 goal scorer would be a moronic idea. Rick Nash has 4 playoff goals in his life for Gods sake.

If you can add a Bobby Ryan or another legitimate top-6 forward for cheap while keeping Gaborik is what we should be looking into. Blowing up the team that finished 3rd in the league is amazing stupidity, even for this board.
I agree with you. I think all this focus on blowing up a team that finished 1st in conference and went far in the playoffs (OK, I think we had some fortune come our way to make the ECF) is silly. What killed us in the ECF? The Devils 4th line ( and the Caps, too). Our top lines will be better next year with Kreider and Richards (typically a FA like him does better in the second year), plus I think Dubinsky should stay (note how we controlled games 5 and 6 against the Devils when he returned despite losing).

Better to add a cheaper FA, maybe take a run at Parise if he'll take less than a Brink's truck to come to a potential Cup contender, especially if the Devils fall short. Get rid of stiffs like Rupp, Mitchell, even Feds or Prust (if he wants max $$) and shore up the 3rd and 4th lines, so Boyle can be a great 4th liner and PK guy, not a 3rd liner.

And keep drafting and building the organizational depth - maybe in 4-5 years they can "trade kids" and prospects for Lundqvist's successor.

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05-30-2012, 11:15 PM
  #88
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The main reason why I think Nash for Gaborik would be a good idea is fit.

Gaborik is a great player. Everyone knows that. Sure, he had a rough playoffs, but honestly very few players have his scoring ability - even with Nash its doubtful.

However, Nash suits our game and system way more.
First, Gaborik's main asset is his speed and his shot when he has space. He doesn't really create space. He has a poor one on one game and is fast, but generally he is only fast going forward (great break away speed). He is average on the boards, and ok defensively.

Nash on the other hand I feel has a better wrister than Gabby (Gabby's snapshot is bar-none his best asset). Nash also is way better on the wall (Jagresque), and has an amazing one on one game, which we really lack.

It would really add an additional dimension to our attack.

The real benefit to adding Nash & Parise is the diversity in style it adds.
Both will add goals but in different ways. Nash creates a lot of more creativity and game breaking ability. Parise will make us very annoying to play against.

I love Gaborik, but I'm aware enough to know that he is not optimal for this system.

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05-30-2012, 11:16 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
Nothing says he wouldn't be, but a lot of people are acting as if it is not just speculation and it is a fact that this team will be better off with Nash than Gaborik.
A lot of people are acting as if it's a given he wouldn't out perform Gaborik.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Stop looking at stats.

Look at the compete level of each player.

Gaborik's compete level is atrocious a solid portion of the time.
Agreed. If you want to look at stats at least look at them all, internationally which may be the second biggest stage to the playoffs. Nash is a lot closer to a PPG player than Gaborik. I'll let you guys use the argument that Nash is on a better national team, because it only supports the theory he would do better in the NHL on a better team.

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05-30-2012, 11:28 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
The main reason why I think Nash for Gaborik would be a good idea is fit.

Gaborik is a great player. Everyone knows that. Sure, he had a rough playoffs, but honestly very few players have his scoring ability - even with Nash its doubtful.

However, Nash suits our game and system way more.
First, Gaborik's main asset is his speed and his shot when he has space. He doesn't really create space. He has a poor one on one game and is fast, but generally he is only fast going forward (great break away speed). He is average on the boards, and ok defensively.

Nash on the other hand I feel has a better wrister than Gabby (Gabby's snapshot is bar-none his best asset). Nash also is way better on the wall (Jagresque), and has an amazing one on one game, which we really lack.

It would really add an additional dimension to our attack.

The real benefit to adding Nash & Parise is the diversity in style it adds.
Both will add goals but in different ways. Nash creates a lot of more creativity and game breaking ability. Parise will make us very annoying to play against.

I love Gaborik, but I'm aware enough to know that he is not optimal for this system.
Good post, pretty much my exact same feelings. Its not so much Gabs fault as it is he got unlucky the way Torts built his system. When Gabs was acquired, they had no identity. How the hell was he supposed to know we would become what we became?

But realistically, I don't think we are going to get Nash but make a shot at Parise. If Parise falls through, then we will go after a guy like Clowe.

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05-30-2012, 11:34 PM
  #91
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If we don't Parise, another thing I'd consider (and it won't be popular) is signing Semin.
Semin will want a large pay-day. I'd consider giving it to him, but for only one year.

Frankly 1 of two things will happen:

(1) He'll play well under Torts and we keep him until next year and then we reevaluate with Perry being a UFA as well.
(2) He'll be horrid. In that case, he doesn't play and we trade him mid-season to a team that wants to take a chance on him at a partial salary. Or we waive him (remember it would be a 1 year deal).

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05-30-2012, 11:39 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
If we don't Parise, another thing I'd consider (and it won't be popular) is signing Semin.
Semin will want a large pay-day. I'd consider giving it to him, but for only one year.

Frankly 1 of two things will happen:

(1) He'll play well under Torts and we keep him until next year and then we reevaluate with Perry being a UFA as well.
(2) He'll be horrid. In that case, he doesn't play and we trade him mid-season to a team that wants to take a chance on him at a partial salary. Or we waive him (remember it would be a 1 year deal).
Now why would you test my good will with such a great insightful post about Gabs. Then following it up with crazy talk about Semin?

We aren't getting Semin, not even if Sather strokes his ego to come here.

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05-30-2012, 11:41 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
If we don't Parise, another thing I'd consider (and it won't be popular) is signing Semin.
Semin will want a large pay-day. I'd consider giving it to him, but for only one year.

Frankly 1 of two things will happen:

(1) He'll play well under Torts and we keep him until next year and then we reevaluate with Perry being a UFA as well.
(2) He'll be horrid. In that case, he doesn't play and we trade him mid-season to a team that wants to take a chance on him at a partial salary. Or we waive him (remember it would be a 1 year deal).
The guy gets a bad rep but I just looked at his stats and they're really good. He would have most likely had 3 40 goal seasons if not for injuries and 2 80 point season, (3 would be a long shot but doable). He had a bad year though, but so did everyone. Now I do think that team inflates his stats and stats aren't everything, but IMO we could do worse and he catches unfair flack.

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05-30-2012, 11:45 PM
  #94
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From time to time I am reading about how the acquisition of Nash will gut the Rangers. Assume for a second the trade goes down as Dubi,DZ, Thomas, and a first.

What I'm left with is:

Richards...Gabs... Nash 32-30-27 (ages)

Kreider-Stepan-Cally 23-22-27

Prust-Boyle-Hags 28-27-23

Anis-Mitchell-Rupp 24-28-32

At this point... small upgrades probably would be needed? Is this now an old team?

TheD.

GIR- MCD 28-22

Staal- Erixson 25-22

Emms - Stralman 28-23

Minor pickups on the bottom as well are needed.

Is the team gutted? I'm not sure what the issue is?

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05-30-2012, 11:45 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Now why would you test my good will with such a great insightful post about Gabs. Then following it up with crazy talk about Semin?

We aren't getting Semin, not even if Sather strokes his ego to come here.
I would only sign him for one year, and if we exhausted our other options via UFA or trades.

I don't really like him as a player, but for 1 year, if we have the cap space, there really isn't any downside.

I can only imagine the team chirping though.

at team dinner:
Hey J*zz, can you slap that salt over to me?

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05-30-2012, 11:52 PM
  #96
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We need to stop comparing Rick Nash to Marian Gaborik. His Career point average is closer to Derek Stepan or Dubinsky, and no where near Gaborik.

Yes he has some goals, but what worries me is he doesn't seem to make the players around him better, as should a player who is making his type of money

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05-31-2012, 12:22 AM
  #97
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When Gaborik decides to show up game in and game out, and not take weeks off. Then we can discuss Gaborik being on Nash's level.
Do you know who Rick Nash is? I'm beginning to think you haven't watched more than a handful of Blue Jackets games in your entire life. He's a lazy player. Half ass effort, game after game. Forgets to take the body. Takes his sweet ass time back-checking. Out of shape.

If you think Nash is on a different level of 'stardom' than Gaborik, or assume he doesn't take nights off, then you should have just avoided this discussion all together because all it's proving is you don't know jack squat about anything regarding the kind of player Nash is.

Gaborik produces more. Gaborik earns less. We don't have to give up a plethora of assets for Gaborik, either. And moving Gaborik to target Nash might be the dumbest thing anyone could possibly suggest, or approve of.


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05-31-2012, 12:23 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by jskramer83 View Post
We need to stop comparing Rick Nash to Marian Gaborik. His Career point average is closer to Derek Stepan or Dubinsky, and no where near Gaborik.

Yes he has some goals, but what worries me is he doesn't seem to make the players around him better, as should a player who is making his type of money
Please, these kinds of statements are getting old.

Nash - .81 PPG
Gaborik - .89 PPG
Dubinsky - .54 PPG
Stepan - .58 PPG

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05-31-2012, 12:39 AM
  #99
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Did I miss the games against the Devils where Richards and Callahan were scoring hat tricks??? I would say that other than Kreider I was disappointed with the entire forward group's lack of scoring in the PO's and especially against the Devils. The top players didn't score like top players and the supporting cast really didn't offer much support. I guess there always has to be a whipping boy and it's Gabby's turn.

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05-31-2012, 12:52 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Please, these kinds of statements are getting old.

Nash - .81 PPG
Gaborik - .89 PPG
Dubinsky - .54 PPG
Stepan - .58 PPG
To be fair, Nash is basically a 30 goal score nowadays. He hasn't scored 40 goals in 4 seasons and hasn't played a very physical game for longer than that. Maybe he gets re-energized playing for a contender. I could see that. I actually wouldn't mind having Nash AND Gaborik on the same team. That would make the team better. Still, I think the odds are stacked against it for a lot of reasons, none the least of which is that at the deadline there were only a handful of teams that could fit Nash into their cap. Now teams have the time to make moves to clear space and I think there are more teams more desperate for Nash than the Rangers who will offer more in a trade.

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