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Marc Staal to Carolina

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Old
05-30-2012, 10:54 PM
  #76
ChrisKreider20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
There's a big difference between the Rangers 1st and Carolina's 1st though.

And I don't see why there's such a fuss over Faulk instead of McBain. McBain's the better player right now. Faulk has the potential to be better, but since the Rangers are in win-now mode, given the choice between the two, McBain would be a better option for them.

Not that I think either could get Staal, just saying.
that's why i said 1st 2013 initially...and included a 2nd from NYs end.

Faulk is preferable b/c
a) he has more upside, which you look for when you deal a sure thing in Staal
b) he has a rocket off a shot which NY needs.

From NYs end I'd also be willing to do this

Faulk + Pitkanen + 1st 2012
for
Staal + 1st 2012 + Rupp

I think that's a fair deal for Staal.

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05-30-2012, 10:59 PM
  #77
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Carolina couldn't get behind that. It's a drop of 20 spots in the draft and a drop from Faulk to Rupp for a slight upgrade from Pitkanen to Staal.

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05-30-2012, 11:16 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
Gaborik for all intensive purposes is a 'sniper' but if he has a man in front of him, he cannot beat him. Obviously this player must have a good NHL shot, but I don't think 'sniping' is necessarily the need.
Don't have much to add to this thread, except I don't want to trade Staal. Maybe I'd do it for Skinner. Mostly I replied because I had to lol at the bolded. It should be "for all intents and purposes". I remember reading a website about common misspellings and grammar mistakes and "for all intensive purposes" was one of them. I never saw anyone make that mistake until now. Anyway, sorry about derailing this thread.

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Old
05-30-2012, 11:18 PM
  #79
Jules Winnfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
a slight upgrade from Pitkanen to Staal.
I think 30 GMs in the NHL would consider it more than a slight upgrade.

(Not talking about anything regarding the proposed deal - just the players discussed above).

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05-30-2012, 11:20 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Carolina couldn't get behind that. It's a drop of 20 spots in the draft and a drop from Faulk to Rupp for a slight upgrade from Pitkanen to Staal.
If you ask my friends I'm notorious for screwing up expressions...
That's why I prefer dealing with #s.

Say La Vie...

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05-30-2012, 11:28 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
If you ask my friends I'm notorious for screwing up expressions...
That's why I prefer dealing with #s.

Say La Vie...
I see what you did their...

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05-30-2012, 11:31 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
If you ask my friends I'm notorious for screwing up expressions...
That's why I prefer dealing with #s.

Say La Vie...
I assume that was to me. As long as you don't say "I could care less". That drives me crazy more than anything. If you just listen to that expression it makes no sense. (It's I couldn't care less). Anyway, don't want to derail this thread, though I'm not sure there will be a consensus here, given how valuable Staal is to us and Skinner is to the Canes.

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Old
05-30-2012, 11:32 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
I think 30 GMs in the NHL would consider it more than a slight upgrade.

(Not talking about anything regarding the proposed deal - just the players discussed above).
By "slight upgrade", I simply mean the difference between the two wouldn't be worth the major drop in draft position and the difference between Faulk and Rupp.

And I do think Pitkanen's generally underrated because of his injury last year. When he's healthy, he's good for 40-50 points from the backend.

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05-30-2012, 11:35 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
By "slight upgrade", I simply mean the difference between the two wouldn't be worth the major drop in draft position and the difference between Faulk and Rupp.

And I do think Pitkanen's generally underrated because of his injury last year. When he's healthy, he's good for 40-50 points from the backend.
Points aren't everything when comparing defensemen.

If I needed someone to shadow a star in the playoffs, Marc Staal would be in my top 3. He's probably the best defenseman overall that plays Ovechkin (or vintage Ovechkin when he could accelerate asap).

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05-30-2012, 11:38 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Points aren't everything when comparing defensemen.

If I needed someone to shadow a star in the playoffs, Marc Staal would be in my top 3. He's probably the best defenseman overall that plays Ovechkin (or vintage Ovechkin when he could accelerate asap).
That's probably the only reason those playoff series between NY and Washington/Pittsburgh were close.

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05-30-2012, 11:42 PM
  #86
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Like I said, Skinner alone would not be enough to get Marc Staal from the Rangers.

Value-wise, in a vacuum, it's fair, but again, you're going to have to overpay to get Staal away from the Rangers. He's not being shopped. This is purely hypothetical. There's about a 0.3% chance he's dealt.

Secondly, Skinner is very skilled, but to a lot of teams, and especially the Rangers who have made it a point to draft players with a certain level of character, his value is diminished because he's a whiny, diving brat with entitlement issues. Any time he feels a ref missed a penalty, he is moments away from taking a horrible retaliation penalty. Any time he's hit hard and clean, he slashes, kicks, cross checks, punches. He's a little brat, plain and simple. If he played the game the right way, his value would be much higher. Maybe maturity will come with age for him, but it doesn't always. See: Malkin.

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05-30-2012, 11:43 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Points aren't everything when comparing defensemen.

If I needed someone to shadow a star in the playoffs, Marc Staal would be in my top 3. He's probably the best defenseman overall that plays Ovechkin (or vintage Ovechkin when he could accelerate asap).
I never said they were. Simply pointing out what Pitkanen brings to the table. And Staal brings a different set of skills.

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05-30-2012, 11:47 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Like I said, Skinner alone would not be enough to get Marc Staal from the Rangers.

Value-wise, in a vacuum, it's fair, but again, you're going to have to overpay to get Staal away from the Rangers. He's not being shopped. This is purely hypothetical. There's about a 0.3% chance he's dealt.

Secondly, Skinner is very skilled, but to a lot of teams, and especially the Rangers who have made it a point to draft players with a certain level of character, his value is diminished because he's a whiny, diving brat with entitlement issues. Any time he feels a ref missed a penalty, he is moments away from taking a horrible retaliation penalty. Any time he's hit hard and clean, he slashes, kicks, cross checks, punches. He's a little brat, plain and simple. If he played the game the right way, his value would be much higher. Maybe maturity will come with age for him, but it doesn't always. See: Malkin.
In addition to that, Skinner is a puckhog who doesn't even attempt to utilize his linemates. It's why Staal and Skinner are a disaster playing together, because Skinner would rather try to dangle through five opposing players than give the puck to a wide open Staal.

And when he gets shut down he floats back while crying to the ref. That's the best case scenario. The worst case scenario is he takes a terrible penalty by attacking the player who committed the sin of knocking him off the puck.

In my mind, Skinner has negative trade value because he doesn't help a team win hockey games. He's a detriment to his linemates and a detriment to his team. Any competent GM would be working the phones day and night trying to find a taker for him before the rest of the league finds out what every 'Canes fan knows deep in their heart but won't admit.

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Old
05-30-2012, 11:51 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
I never said they were. Simply pointing out what Pitkanen brings to the table. And Staal brings a different set of skills.
Marc Staal:
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for dangles, I can tell you I don't have them. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my team go to the next round now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will bodycheck you.

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05-31-2012, 12:44 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
Marc Staal:
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for dangles, I can tell you I don't have them. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my team go to the next round now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will bodycheck you.
Eric Staal:
Bro, that concussion went straight to your head.


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Old
05-31-2012, 01:02 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
Marc Staal:
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for dangles, I can tell you I don't have them. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my team go to the next round now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will bodycheck you.
Good stuff. Or should I say very niiiiicccceee.. Taken is such a bad*** movie.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:04 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Like I said, Skinner alone would not be enough to get Marc Staal from the Rangers.

Value-wise, in crazy world, it's fair, but again, you're going to have to overpay to get Staal away from the Rangers. He's not being shopped. This is purely hypothetical. There's about a 0.3% chance he's dealt.

Secondly, Skinner is very skilled, but to a lot of teams, and especially the Rangers who have made it a point to draft players with a certain level of character, his value is diminished because he's a whiny, diving brat with entitlement issues. Any time he feels a ref missed a penalty, he is moments away from taking a horrible retaliation penalty. Any time he's hit hard and clean, he slashes, kicks, cross checks, punches. He's a little brat, plain and simple. If he played the game the right way, his value would be much higher. Maybe maturity will come with age for him, but it doesn't always. See: Malkin.
fixed for you.

What makes you think skinner is being shopped more than staal?

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05-31-2012, 01:08 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by bandwagon cole canes View Post
In addition to that, Skinner is a puckhog who doesn't even attempt to utilize his linemates. It's why Staal and Skinner are a disaster playing together, because Skinner would rather try to dangle through five opposing players than give the puck to a wide open Staal.

And when he gets shut down he floats back while crying to the ref. That's the best case scenario. The worst case scenario is he takes a terrible penalty by attacking the player who committed the sin of knocking him off the puck.

In my mind, Skinner has negative trade value because he doesn't help a team win hockey games. He's a detriment to his linemates and a detriment to his team. Any competent GM would be working the phones day and night trying to find a taker for him before the rest of the league finds out what every 'Canes fan knows deep in their heart but won't admit.
I forgot how lightly people took this section of HFboards. I came in here actually looking for a realistic discussion, I left laughing.
edit: lol that guys just started his own trade skinner thread, NICE!

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05-31-2012, 05:05 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
Marc Staal:
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for dangles, I can tell you I don't have them. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my team go to the next round now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will bodycheck you.
awesome.

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Old
05-31-2012, 07:40 AM
  #95
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People need to realize that Joni Pitkanen is a legitimate number two defenseman. He'd look great with Girardi, and McBain would look great with McDonagh.

That said, I wouldn't package those two with a 1st rounder to get Staal. He showed flashes in the playoffs, but he really hasn't been the same since the concussion. He went from being the Rangers clear number one, to being clearly passed by Girardi and McDonagh.

That's not to say that Staal isn't a great defenseman, because he is. I just wouldn't trade two pieces of our future defense and a potential top ten pick for him.

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05-31-2012, 07:43 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutdown Sutter View Post
People need to realize that Joni Pitkanen is a legitimate number two defenseman. He'd look great with Girardi, and McBain would look great with McDonagh.

That said, I wouldn't package those two with a 1st rounder to get Staal. He showed flashes in the playoffs, but he really hasn't been the same since the concussion. He went from being the Rangers clear number one, to being clearly passed by Girardi and McDonagh.

That's not to say that Staal isn't a great defenseman, because he is. I just wouldn't trade two pieces of our future defense and a potential top ten pick for him.
Staal, with a full off season to work out, a full training camp to get his timing back WILL be back to being the Rangers best defensive defenceman while putting up 25-30 points a year.

However, I can see not wanting to part with to much of the future for him.

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05-31-2012, 08:25 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Serious underrating of Marc Staal in this thread.

He's one of the best two way D-men in the league and is one of the few horses that can be a true shutdown D-man to big superstars in a playoff series.

***** ain't free. Gotta give a player of impact to get one.
On the bold part, no and yes. Yes, he's an outstanding defensively but he is not one of the best two-way Dmen in the league. He has a way to go offensively. That's where, to me, his improvement needs to in order to become a true #1 in the league.

Having said all that, I wouldn't be in favor of a deal for him that included Skinner of Faulk.

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Old
06-23-2012, 03:08 AM
  #98
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After the trade at the draft, I was wondering if Carolina was interested in another Staal? and what would Carolina have to send to New York?

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06-23-2012, 03:10 AM
  #99
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Marc Staal is an Elite defenseman in this league, it will take more than Carolina is willing to offer.

You're looking at Murphy, 2013 1st and McBain and probably another guy in there, probably a winger.

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06-23-2012, 03:31 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
skinner scored 30 his rookie year and is 20 YEARS OLD!

staal is a very good defender, but he isn't a top 15 defenseman in the league.
He's younger and just as good if not better than Girardi, who finished 6th in Norris voting this year.

Try again.

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