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Old
05-30-2012, 08:03 PM
  #1
tuckrr
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Malcolm Subban

Guys, I KNOW we need defense...and believe me I want us to draft a defender BUT:

If Malcolm Subban fell to us, would you take him? This kid is INSANELY underrated, and IMO teams will regret not taking him in the top 10-15.

We've got bryz forever, but at some point shouldn't you take BPA?

It's not gonna help us in the immediate future, but there is something about him that just reeks of winner.

thoughts? would you consider it?

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05-30-2012, 08:05 PM
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I always go with BPA. Most players don't plug into the roster for a few years. You can always trade a good prospect for another prospect/player to fill a positional need.

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05-30-2012, 08:05 PM
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No way in hell would I pick a goalie in the first round. That would be a TERRIBLE decision. Bryz is locked up for a thousand years. Hovinen is looking like he should be a serviceable backup. Under no circumstances should they pick a goalie in the first three rounds (I personally wouldn't take a goalie at all, but if they take a flyer on a guy in the later rounds, so be it).

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05-30-2012, 08:07 PM
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tuckrr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
No way in hell would I pick a goalie in the first round. That would be a TERRIBLE decision. Bryz is locked up for a thousand years. Hovinen is looking like he should be a serviceable backup. Under no circumstances should they pick a goalie in the first three rounds (I personally wouldn't take a goalie at all, but if they take a flyer on a guy in the later rounds, so be it).
Have you seen him play?

I'm not asking if you would pick a goalie i'm asking if you would pick Malcolm Subban

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05-30-2012, 08:08 PM
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im open to anything but i cant remember when the last time the fly boys took a goalie first. as long as they never bring leighton back im cool. if so i want my deposit back for season tickets

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05-30-2012, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pughater View Post
im open to anything but i cant remember when the last time the fly boys took a goalie first. as long as they never bring leighton back im cool. if so i want my deposit back for season tickets
It was probably Maxime Ouellet back in like 1999.

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05-30-2012, 08:14 PM
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pughater
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Originally Posted by whatthef View Post
It was probably Maxime Ouellet back in like 1999.
i was thinking that but i did want to be a idiot and say that then be wrong or have people ask who

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05-30-2012, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
Have you seen him play?

I'm not asking if you would pick a goalie i'm asking if you would pick Malcolm Subban
I've seen his clips and read about him, and I'm sure he is good and will get picked fairly high. But again, the Flyers have a goalie locked up forever, Bob (for the next year, at least for the time being), and Hovinen for a few more years. Best case scenario you pick Subban, don't sign up until his rights are about to expire (three years from now?), then sign him to be the backup for a few years, then trade him as RFA or hope he has turned into a starter and Bryz is gone. Those are a lot of ifs to use a first rounder on. You also have to factor in the history of goalie development (not just for the Flyers, but in general). History seems to show that drafting a goalie high is much riskier than drafting a defender or forward.

The Flyers have a pressing need at defense and there are a slew of solid defneders in this draft. If they pass on a defender in the first round and take Subban, they don't pick again until the third round (assuming no trades are made). That means they likely miss out on a defender that can help in any significant way within the next couple years. So now they have a goalie that won't be able to help for a while, if at all, and a defender that won't be able to help for a while, if at all. Instead they could have a defender that has an outside shot of helping this year, but certainly likely to pitch in within the next couple seasons. Basically, I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket with my first rounder to draft a guy who even if turns out to be good, may not ever play for this team.

I know you said he could be traded, but why pick a guy if you are going to trade him? If you ask me, that plan has a higher chance of backfiring than passing on him.

EDIT: Nevermind, you didn't say you would trade him, someone else did.

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05-30-2012, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pughater View Post
i was thinking that but i did want to be a idiot and say that then be wrong or have people ask who
I'm pretty sure that's it, but there were a number of years where there was no Flyers 1st round pick. So it's not really a big thing that they haven't taken a goalie in the first round in a while. Besides generally if there is a first round worthy goalie they go before the Flyers pick. They have often seemed willing to just take a goalie in the later rounds and cross their fingers hoping they turn into Hasek.

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05-30-2012, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I've seen his clips and read about him, and I'm sure he is good and will get picked fairly high. But again, the Flyers have a goalie locked up forever, Bob (for the next year, at least for the time being), and Hovinen for a few more years. Best case scenario you pick Subban, don't sign up until his rights are about to expire (three years from now?), then sign him to be the backup for a few years, then trade him as RFA or hope he has turned into a starter and Bryz is gone. Those are a lot of ifs to use a first rounder on. You also have to factor in the history of goalie development (not just for the Flyers, but in general). History seems to show that drafting a goalie high is much riskier than drafting a defender or forward.

The Flyers have a pressing need at defense and there are a slew of solid defneders in this draft. If they pass on a defender in the first round and take Subban, they don't pick again until the third round (assuming no trades are made). That means they likely miss out on a defender that can help in any significant way within the next couple years. So now they have a goalie that won't be able to help for a while, if at all, and a defender that won't be able to help for a while, if at all. Instead they could have a defender that has an outside shot of helping this year, but certainly likely to pitch in within the next couple seasons. Basically, I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket with my first rounder to draft a guy who even if turns out to be good, may not ever play for this team.

I know you said he could be traded, but why pick a guy if you are going to trade him? If you ask me, that plan has a higher chance of backfiring than passing on him.

EDIT: Nevermind, you didn't say you would trade him, someone else did.
Agree 100%.

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Old
05-30-2012, 08:39 PM
  #11
tuckrr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I've seen his clips and read about him, and I'm sure he is good and will get picked fairly high. But again, the Flyers have a goalie locked up forever, Bob (for the next year, at least for the time being), and Hovinen for a few more years. Best case scenario you pick Subban, don't sign up until his rights are about to expire (three years from now?), then sign him to be the backup for a few years, then trade him as RFA or hope he has turned into a starter and Bryz is gone. Those are a lot of ifs to use a first rounder on. You also have to factor in the history of goalie development (not just for the Flyers, but in general). History seems to show that drafting a goalie high is much riskier than drafting a defender or forward.

The Flyers have a pressing need at defense and there are a slew of solid defneders in this draft. If they pass on a defender in the first round and take Subban, they don't pick again until the third round (assuming no trades are made). That means they likely miss out on a defender that can help in any significant way within the next couple years. So now they have a goalie that won't be able to help for a while, if at all, and a defender that won't be able to help for a while, if at all. Instead they could have a defender that has an outside shot of helping this year, but certainly likely to pitch in within the next couple seasons. Basically, I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket with my first rounder to draft a guy who even if turns out to be good, may not ever play for this team.

I know you said he could be traded, but why pick a guy if you are going to trade him? If you ask me, that plan has a higher chance of backfiring than passing on him.

EDIT: Nevermind, you didn't say you would trade him, someone else did.
look, I completely agree with all of this. I'm simply asking if people who know subban well (better than me) would want to take the risk on him.

Lets say we sign Suter, Re-sign Carle..

Suter-Coburn
Carle-Meszaros
Timonen-Grossmann
*Gus

thats really not bad at all. Plus we'd have an exciting prospect up an coming in a few years. Hes the best goalie in the draft, he could be the best goalie in the league one day.


edit: I won't be heartbroken if we stick to the plan, im just really interested in this kid

Edit to the edit:
just for discussion's sake, how do you think it would reflect on bryz/ his confidence if we took a goalie #1?


Last edited by tuckrr: 05-30-2012 at 08:49 PM.
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Old
05-30-2012, 08:49 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
look, I completely agree with all of this. I'm simply asking if people who know subban well (better than me) would want to take the risk on him.

Lets say we sign Suter, Re-sign Carle..

Suter-Coburn
Carle-Meszaros
Timonen-Grossmann
*Gus

thats really not bad at all. Plus we'd have an exciting prospect up an coming in a few years. Hes the best goalie in the draft, he could be the best goalie in the league one day.
I see what you are saying. I probably don't know Subban any better than you do, but I can't imagine a scenario where the Flyers draft a goalie in the first round this year. There is no guarantee they re-sign any of those guys and Timonen is likely done next year I would imagine. Gus is ok, but he's a bottom pairing guy, top four at absolute best. You give Subban a couple years to develop and be signed and such, you still figure he won't start for a few years after that. Then he is an RFA so you either trade him or re-sign him, probably to a short term deal just to get him to UFA when he leaves unless Bryz is gone by then. So that is like maybe, what, five years from now? It just seems like a silly waste of a first round pick when you have other needs.

Obviously, none of the defenders are guaranteed to be starters any time soon either, but I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket that really at best will come to fruition in like five years if everything goes perfectly. If this was a few years down the road and teh Flyers were in a similar situation, the only difference being that Bryz is further along in his contract, then I'd be ok with it. But Bryz has eight years left. While it is certainly possible he doesn't last that long, I wouldn't use a first round pick banking on that. I know he wasn't great this year, but he could have a solid comeback year next year. I also wouldn't draft based on that, but there are a lot more reasons not to draft him than to draft him IMO.

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05-30-2012, 08:49 PM
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If we could trade Bob+something else and get a 1st rounder, then I would definitely take a look.

But with our only 1st rounder right now, we need the best Dman available

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05-30-2012, 09:04 PM
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Teams generally don't pick goalies in the 1st round anymore. It's becoming more rare each year. But if the Flyers think he is the best player available, that's who we'll pick.

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05-30-2012, 09:09 PM
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If he really is the player the Flyers feel is the best available at that point, they should take him.

Having Bryz locked up long term means they wouldn't feel rushed to bring a goalie prospect to the dance and they could take their time developing him.

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05-30-2012, 09:17 PM
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Subban wouldn't be the best player available at any point in the first round for me so I would not be happy if they selected him.
Goalies in the first round are almost always bad value.

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05-30-2012, 10:10 PM
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Bryz is locked up and Hovinen is considered a possible future Rinne by many Euro scouts. No need.

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05-30-2012, 10:20 PM
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Bryz is locked up and Hovinen is considered a possible future Rinne by many Euro scouts. No need.
No such thing.

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05-30-2012, 10:51 PM
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Bryz is locked up and Hovinen is considered a possible future Rinne by many Euro scouts. No need.
..kind of a stretch

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05-31-2012, 12:02 AM
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No. NO Subban - No. N. O.

Defense First please regardless if he is BPA.... D first.

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05-31-2012, 12:12 AM
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If we aquire a 2nd rounder and take him, I wouldn't mind. Goalies too risky for 1st round.

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05-31-2012, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by TheIceman26 View Post
If we aquire a 2nd rounder and take him, I wouldn't mind. Goalies too risky for 1st round.
he'll be gone by the 2nd

edit: he's been touted as the best goalie in the draft for as long as I can remember. (someone want to check that for me? it feels like its been 2 years!)

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05-31-2012, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
he'll be gone by the 2nd

edit: he's been touted as the best goalie in the draft for as long as I can remember. (someone want to check that for me? it feels like its been 2 years!)
Dansk was seen as the best goalie for some time, actually.
Vasilevski has been highly touted too.
I mean, he not only appeared, but started for Russia in the IIHF U18's as a 15 year old.

Subban has gotten a lot of hype lately, but I don't remember him being touted as a can't miss guy, just more of a guy to keep an eye on.
If he had a different last name, he probably wouldn't get as much and wouldn't be as highly ranked (injuries are an issue with him).

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05-31-2012, 03:09 AM
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No..

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05-31-2012, 06:51 AM
  #25
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If we take Subban, how long before habs fans are as annoying as the leafs fans with trying to get schenn?

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