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Glen Sather looking at free agency - "We don't trade kids"

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Old
05-31-2012, 12:55 AM
  #101
Barbara Underhill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief View Post
To be fair, Nash is basically a 30 goal score nowadays. He hasn't scored 40 goals in 4 seasons and hasn't played a very physical game for longer than that. Maybe he gets re-energized playing for a contender. I could see that. I actually wouldn't mind having Nash AND Gaborik on the same team. That would make the team better. Still, I think the odds are stacked against it for a lot of reasons, none the least of which is that at the deadline there were only a handful of teams that could fit Nash into their cap. Now teams have the time to make moves to clear space and I think there are more teams more desperate for Nash than the Rangers who will offer more in a trade.
I agree that both is the way to go. We've been a one trick pony for a long time. You're right about more teams being able to fit him now, but I doubt his list changes much.

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05-31-2012, 12:59 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
But we'd have to replace Dubinsky.
This will be a larger task and will be felt more than most around here anticipate.

As someone else accurately stated, the band wagon last year was to trade Del Zotto. Before that it was Girardi. Blah, blah, blah.

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05-31-2012, 01:54 AM
  #103
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We seem focused on exchanging elite scoring for elite scoring, big contract for big contract.

The focus should be on getting some secondary scoring on the wings.

Rather than getting on $7-million winger, ideally we're searching for two $3.5 million wingers.

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05-31-2012, 02:14 AM
  #104
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Well outside of Clowe, if the Rangers can't sign Parise/Nash, they should really look at trying to sign Shane Doan.

Contract wise, he fits very well with Gabs. If the Rangers can give him a short term deal, I am all for signing him. He is also exactly what that first line needs.

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05-31-2012, 05:04 AM
  #105
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Regarding Free agents

I would think the Sather brass would be interested in looking into discussions with the following FA players to NYR:

Zach Parise - small chance IMO, Rangers cannot swallow another big long term deal without getting rid of one. Winds up in Detroit, Minnesota or stays put.
Shane Doan - probably stays in desert
Ray Whitney - would be great addition on short deal - but not very likely
Ryan Smyth - one year at around 3 M as backup plan to add depth scoring - why not?
Teemu Selšnne - pipedream
Brad Boyes - possibly a 3rd option...Big chance
Dustin Penner - nope, Torts would take away his IHOP vouchers
Alexander Semin - hope not, but might happen on a one year deal
PAP - ship has most likely sailed, some bad blood there I believe
Jaromir Jagr - I would hope so aS a great stopgap 3rd line RW alternative - but methinks Sather not interested
David Jones - not really that interested as I believe he might be Chris Higgins 2 and will cost excessive $$$ as FA
Michael Samuelsson - veteran with offensive upside, injury problems say NO
Kristian Huselius - see Michael Samuelsson

Ryan Suter - pipe dream (unless Girardi or Staal + is traded for Bobby Ryan... Then maybe yes). Probably headed to DRW
Jason Garrisson - great shot but their will be suitors driving up $$$, too expensive IMO
Corey Sarich - maybe on a short contract
Hal Gill - see Corey Sarich

Slim pickings to fill NYR needs and stay within cap for reasonable time.

But I could see three possible pickups for The Rangers in FA - if the stars are in alignment:
  • One of Whitney/Smyth/Jagr - short term
  • One of Gaustad/Kelly/Moen/konopka/tootoo ( maybe add One of the last three names esp. if Prust costs too much & walks)
  • One of Sarich/Gil - short term

Elaborate please

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05-31-2012, 05:46 AM
  #106
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I would like to see a scenario where the Pack Line is this teams third line. Probably means adding a top six RW'er. Have a bottom six that looks like:

Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Moen - Boyle - Prust

The third line would be more like a 2b line. I don't think a Jones is a viable option for that second line RW spot. May be sign Smyth to play the third line RW spot on a one year deal and put Callahan on the second line. Only thing is Smyth is going to be 37 next season. Ideally I'd like to see Gaustad signed instead of Moen with him slotting into the fourth line center spot and Boyle shifting to the LW, but I don't see Gaustad wanting to play fourt line minutes.

On D I'd want Schultz and Allen added with either Eminger or Bickell as the 7th.

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05-31-2012, 05:52 AM
  #107
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It won't let me edit my post above so I will continue here.

So my line up would look something like this:

Hagelin - Stepan - Gaborik
Kreider - Richards - ________
Dubinsky - Anisimov/Gaustad - Callahan
Moen/Boyle - Boyle/Anisimov - Prust

McD - Girardi
Staal - Schultz
MDZ - Allen

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Old
05-31-2012, 06:14 AM
  #108
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On the other hand - imagine this:

Cap goes up to 66,3 in new CBA (c'mon RB - give me a break here...)
  • Prust walks cuz he want 1,7 M plus in a long term deal
  • Trade Girardi plus rights to Zuccarello plus a sweetener for B Ryan
  • Trade Michael del Zotto plus michael Rupp to Edmonton for MPS and a 2nd/3rd rounder at the draft
  • Resign John Mitchell at 750.000 for one year
  • Resign john Scott but put him on a diet, send him to Barbara for skating lessons and assign him to CT as insurance call up and too teach Big Mac a little...
  • Sign R Suter for 6,5M
  • Sign J Schultz for 2,3 M
  • Sign Z Kenopka for 900k
  • Sign Corey Sarich 2 years at 2 M
  • Sign G Jonas Gustavsson at 1 M
  • Sauer on LTIR

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

FORWARDS
Bobby*Ryan ($5.100m) / Brad*Richards ($6.667m) / Marian*Gaborik ($7.500m)
Brandon*Dubinsky ($4.200m) / Artem*Anisimov ($1.875m) / Ryan*Callahan ($4.275m)
Chris*Kreider ($1.325m) / Derek*Stepan ($0.875m) / Carl*Hagelin ($0.875m)
Magnus*Paajarvi ($1.525m) / Brian*Boyle ($1.700m) / Zenon*Konopka ($0.900m)
John*Mitchell ($0.750m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan*McDonagh ($1.300m) / Ryan*Suter ($6.500m)
Marc*Staal ($3.975m) / Justin*Schultz ($2.300m)
Tim*Erixon ($1.750m) / Cory*Sarich ($2.000m)
Stu*Bickel ($0.800m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik*Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Jonas*Gustavsson ($1.000m)

LTIR
Michael*Sauer ($1.250m)

BUYOUTS
Chris*Drury ($1.667m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $66,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,983,334; BONUSES: $2,725,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster):- $683,334 (Sauer on LTIR - add $1.250m)

Is this too much turnover? Probably - and not very realistic either...
But demanded skill and speed is here...

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05-31-2012, 08:04 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
From time to time I am reading about how the acquisition of Nash will gut the Rangers. Assume for a second the trade goes down as Dubi,DZ, Thomas, and a first.

What I'm left with is:

Richards...Gabs... Nash 32-30-27 (ages)

Kreider-Stepan-Cally 23-22-27

Prust-Boyle-Hags 28-27-23

Anis-Mitchell-Rupp 24-28-32

At this point... small upgrades probably would be needed? Is this now an old team?

TheD.

GIR- MCD 28-22

Staal- Erixson 25-22

Emms - Stralman 28-23

Minor pickups on the bottom as well are needed.

Is the team gutted? I'm not sure what the issue is?
The issue? You touched homegrown players. I used to act like that. I had a hissy fit when York was traded. Then he had a slow downward spiral followed by a fast downward spiral. Moving your homegrown guys for better players is part of the process of winning the cup. Some stay, some go. LA fans didn't want to part with Simmonds or Schenn for Kovalchuk, Richards... anyone. It's an extreme, but it's funny how exactly 1 season after moving two untouchable homegrown players they are in the finals.

And not to contradict myself, I'd rather move Erixon over MDZ. Emminger/Strahlman on the 3rd pair is looking at 5 minutes a game under Tortorella. Strahlman has indicated he may go home. Unless we land Schulz, and he and MacIlrath are NHL ready, we could consider the D gutted with the loss of MDZ, Sauer and Strahlman.

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Old
05-31-2012, 08:06 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
I would think the Sather brass would be interested in looking into discussions with the following FA players to NYR:

Zach Parise - small chance IMO, Rangers cannot swallow another big long term deal without getting rid of one. Winds up in Detroit, Minnesota or stays put.
Shane Doan - probably stays in desert
Ray Whitney - would be great addition on short deal - but not very likely
Ryan Smyth - one year at around 3 M as backup plan to add depth scoring - why not?
Teemu Selšnne - pipedream
Brad Boyes - possibly a 3rd option...Big chance
Dustin Penner - nope, Torts would take away his IHOP vouchers
Alexander Semin - hope not, but might happen on a one year deal
PAP - ship has most likely sailed, some bad blood there I believe
Jaromir Jagr - I would hope so aS a great stopgap 3rd line RW alternative - but methinks Sather not interested
David Jones - not really that interested as I believe he might be Chris Higgins 2 and will cost excessive $$$ as FA
Michael Samuelsson - veteran with offensive upside, injury problems say NO
Kristian Huselius - see Michael Samuelsson

Ryan Suter - pipe dream (unless Girardi or Staal + is traded for Bobby Ryan... Then maybe yes). Probably headed to DRW
Jason Garrisson - great shot but their will be suitors driving up $$$, too expensive IMO
Corey Sarich - maybe on a short contract
Hal Gill - see Corey Sarich

Slim pickings to fill NYR needs and stay within cap for reasonable time.

Elaborate please
Looking at your list of forwards, they're either not happening or I am just not interested (Jagr's not going anywhere to be a 3rd liner). One forward you didn't mention who is somewhat intriguing is Jiri Hudler. One grinder who the Rangers saw up close was NJ's Bernier.

On defense, if the Rangers are looking for offensive help you could also look to Wideman who will obviously garner some interest or Kuba...and then there's always Souray.

If looking for a stay at home type, Barret Jackman is out there...and I could see Torts dipping back into his TB past for Kubina.

And because Slats is doing the shopping, I guess it's worth mentioning that Parros and Konopka are free agents (I have to admit I do like the fact that Konopka is good on draws).

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05-31-2012, 08:08 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
On the other hand - imagine this:

Cap goes up to 66,3 in new CBA (c'mon RB - give me a break here...)
  • Prust walks cuz he want 1,7 M plus in a long term deal
  • Trade Girardi plus rights to Zuccarello plus a sweetener for B Ryan
  • Trade Michael del Zotto plus michael Rupp to Edmonton for MPS and a 2nd/3rd rounder at the draft
  • Resign John Mitchell at 750.000 for one year
  • Resign john Scott but put him on a diet, send him to Barbara for skating lessons and assign him to CT as insurance call up and too teach Big Mac a little...
  • Sign R Suter for 6,5M
  • Sign J Schultz for 2,3 M
  • Sign Z Kenopka for 900k
  • Sign Corey Sarich 2 years at 2 M
  • Sign G Jonas Gustavsson at 1 M
  • Sauer on LTIR

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

FORWARDS
Bobby*Ryan ($5.100m) / Brad*Richards ($6.667m) / Marian*Gaborik ($7.500m)
Brandon*Dubinsky ($4.200m) / Artem*Anisimov ($1.875m) / Ryan*Callahan ($4.275m)
Chris*Kreider ($1.325m) / Derek*Stepan ($0.875m) / Carl*Hagelin ($0.875m)
Magnus*Paajarvi ($1.525m) / Brian*Boyle ($1.700m) / Zenon*Konopka ($0.900m)
John*Mitchell ($0.750m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan*McDonagh ($1.300m) / Ryan*Suter ($6.500m)
Marc*Staal ($3.975m) / Justin*Schultz ($2.300m)
Tim*Erixon ($1.750m) / Cory*Sarich ($2.000m)
Stu*Bickel ($0.800m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik*Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Jonas*Gustavsson ($1.000m)

LTIR
Michael*Sauer ($1.250m)

BUYOUTS
Chris*Drury ($1.667m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $66,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,983,334; BONUSES: $2,725,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster):- $683,334 (Sauer on LTIR - add $1.250m)

Is this too much turnover? Probably - and not very realistic either...
But demanded skill and speed is here...
Way too much turnover. Sather will be making changes but he won't be ripping out walls.

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Old
05-31-2012, 08:10 AM
  #112
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I love to hear we don't trade kids.

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05-31-2012, 08:10 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
We seem focused on exchanging elite scoring for elite scoring, big contract for big contract.

The focus should be on getting some secondary scoring on the wings.

Rather than getting on $7-million winger, ideally we're searching for two $3.5 million wingers.
See this guy gets it

It's more realistic and more useful.

Now, let's just pretend that Kreider is one of the scoring wingers the team needs, so now they only need to get one, and can spend the other money on a reliable 3rd pairing defenseman!

Quote:
On defense, if the Rangers are looking for offensive help you could also look to Wideman who will obviously garner some interest or Kuba...and then there's always Souray.

If looking for a stay at home type, Barret Jackman is out there...and I could see Torts dipping back into his TB past for Kubina.
I think the Rangers are looking for guys who aren't liabilities on defense and can play a regular shift. Wideman and Souray are questionable defensively and when the playoffs roll around again they'll just be benched because they'll give up too many chances

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05-31-2012, 08:12 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Definately sounds like the organization is leaning towards free agency . But , even without trading the kids what if say a Patrick Kane was Available? Seems like he is a party guy and the hawks want him to get help. A buniess guy like Sather could see that as opportunity. Kid is a hell of a player and only what 23 years old? Could a deal around Gaborik/Kane be made?
Patrick Kane beat up a cabbie! and he's a partier also. apparently. two things that are in basically endless supply in NYC. cabbies and nightlife. and you want to bring him here?! need i remind you of Theo Fleury.... the dude was a WRECK off the ice because of all the drugs and partying he did!

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Old
05-31-2012, 08:18 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
See this guy gets it

It's more realistic and more useful.

Now, let's just pretend that Kreider is one of the scoring wingers the team needs, so now they only need to get one, and can spend the other money on a reliable 3rd pairing defenseman!
Exactly. Small, smart changes can, and should be made. No need to blow things up.

This team is building for long-term success. Too many people are proposing deviating from that plan in a desperate attempt to be more successful next season.

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Old
05-31-2012, 08:23 AM
  #116
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I am going to laugh when, on July 1st, the Rangers go out and sign Suter. All the talk is about adding offense. Honestly, I would be more interested in Suter than anyone else in FA, even for 6-6.5 million for 10 years. His skating ability, hockey IQ and natural talent are Lidstrom-esque. I think he easily plays until 40.

I go Suter and add to the defense and look to make the correct trade moving forward from the defense. Whether that is MDZ, Staal, Girardi, Erixon, McIlrath or whoever.

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05-31-2012, 08:53 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Stop looking at stats.

Look at the compete level of each player.

Gaborik's compete level is atrocious a solid portion of the time.

Yep.I look at compete level as well and with Nash its an unknown what it really is.

If there is a 1-for-1 swap Gabs for Nash:


Have to think does Nash fit the identity better than Gaborik?

Is the identity going projected to be the same for this team for the next 3-5 years?

Will Nash be invigorated playing with a premier playmaker?

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05-31-2012, 08:54 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
On the other hand - imagine this:

Cap goes up to 66,3 in new CBA (c'mon RB - give me a break here...)
  • Prust walks cuz he want 1,7 M plus in a long term deal
  • Trade Girardi plus rights to Zuccarello plus a sweetener for B Ryan
  • Trade Michael del Zotto plus michael Rupp to Edmonton for MPS and a 2nd/3rd rounder at the draft
  • Resign John Mitchell at 750.000 for one year
  • Resign john Scott but put him on a diet, send him to Barbara for skating lessons and assign him to CT as insurance call up and too teach Big Mac a little...
  • Sign R Suter for 6,5M
  • Sign J Schultz for 2,3 M
  • Sign Z Kenopka for 900k
  • Sign Corey Sarich 2 years at 2 M
  • Sign G Jonas Gustavsson at 1 M
  • Sauer on LTIR

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

FORWARDS
Bobby*Ryan ($5.100m) / Brad*Richards ($6.667m) / Marian*Gaborik ($7.500m)
Brandon*Dubinsky ($4.200m) / Artem*Anisimov ($1.875m) / Ryan*Callahan ($4.275m)
Chris*Kreider ($1.325m) / Derek*Stepan ($0.875m) / Carl*Hagelin ($0.875m)
Magnus*Paajarvi ($1.525m) / Brian*Boyle ($1.700m) / Zenon*Konopka ($0.900m)
John*Mitchell ($0.750m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan*McDonagh ($1.300m) / Ryan*Suter ($6.500m)
Marc*Staal ($3.975m) / Justin*Schultz ($2.300m)
Tim*Erixon ($1.750m) / Cory*Sarich ($2.000m)
Stu*Bickel ($0.800m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik*Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Jonas*Gustavsson ($1.000m)

LTIR
Michael*Sauer ($1.250m)

BUYOUTS
Chris*Drury ($1.667m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $66,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,983,334; BONUSES: $2,725,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster):- $683,334 (Sauer on LTIR - add $1.250m)

Is this too much turnover? Probably - and not very realistic either...
But demanded skill and speed is here...
I might have asked you this before so if you answered this question, I apologize. Why the hell is Stepan on the 3rd line in favor of Anisimov and even more disturbing, why Kreider on the 3rd line in favor Dubinsky. Kreider has more talent in his pinky than Dubinsky has in his whole body.

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05-31-2012, 09:06 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I might have asked you this before so if you answered this question, I apologize. Why the hell is Stepan on the 3rd line in favor of Anisimov and even more disturbing, why Kreider on the 3rd line in favor Dubinsky. Kreider has more talent in his pinky than Dubinsky has in his whole body.
First, we all know there are no set lines with Torts.
Secondly, lines 2 and 3 would be interchangeable. The Packline would be a two - way checking line matched against other teams top offensive unit. The 4th line would be another shutdown line that bangs a bit and Richards and Stepans lines could match up against the opponents weaker lines most likely resulting in better offensive production right there. When we had to count on the likes of Boyle, Prust and Fedotenko... to provide us with offense this year when the other teams shut down our top unit, well - see that did not work out so well.
Do no take the line numbers so categorically -call them 2A & 2B if you like
Third - this is never going to happen...

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05-31-2012, 09:08 AM
  #120
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I am shocked at how people have turned on Gaborik especially after news leaked that there is a very good chance he played most of the playoffs banged up.

He has done everything possible to fit his game into Torts style and was the Rangers best forward (not even close) this season.

YOU DON'T TRADE 40 GOAL SCORERS OFF OF A TEAM THAT IS CHALLENGED TO SCORE GOALS.

In no way am I saying that Gaborik should be untouchable. If somebody wants to trade another 40 goal scorer for him, I'd listen, but he should a huge part of this team for the next two years.

I am not even a huge Gaborik fan, just felt the need to chime in in light of the unbelievably fickle fan base.

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05-31-2012, 09:11 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
The main reason why I think Nash for Gaborik would be a good idea is fit.

Gaborik is a great player. Everyone knows that. Sure, he had a rough playoffs, but honestly very few players have his scoring ability - even with Nash its doubtful.

However, Nash suits our game and system way more.
First, Gaborik's main asset is his speed and his shot when he has space. He doesn't really create space. He has a poor one on one game and is fast, but generally he is only fast going forward (great break away speed). He is average on the boards, and ok defensively.

Nash on the other hand I feel has a better wrister than Gabby (Gabby's snapshot is bar-none his best asset). Nash also is way better on the wall (Jagresque), and has an amazing one on one game, which we really lack.

It would really add an additional dimension to our attack.


The real benefit to adding Nash & Parise is the diversity in style it adds.
Both will add goals but in different ways. Nash creates a lot of more creativity and game breaking ability. Parise will make us very annoying to play against.

I love Gaborik, but I'm aware enough to know that he is not optimal for this system.

Especially from playing our "six goalie system", the ability to take defenders on 1 v 1 becomes hilighted due to our scrambled breakouts at times. (I believe Tawnos has pointed out the specifics in previous threads)

We have all seen Gaborik try and take defenders on 1 v 1 or 1 v 2 and get rolled up like a joint to a pot starved weed head.

Nash, I believe won't get rolled up in such a way.

There would be more of a drive to the net, something we lack. More loose pucks for a guy like Callahan to bang home on follow up oppurtunities.

As long as the astronomical asking price comes down I would love to see Nash on this team.

I am OK with the terms of his contract, the 6 years do not bother me as Nash and Richards would be paired up for that time. Their games compliment one another.


Just my two cents.

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05-31-2012, 09:23 AM
  #122
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I have a serious question for everyone:

Would anyone really be upset of the Rangers directed their efforts to bringing in Suter over any big-name offensive player this off-season?

Suter-Girardi
Staal-MDZ
McDonagh-Erixon/Schultz

I feel FAR more comfortable giving Suter a long-term deal over Parise or trading the required assets to bring in a 8 million dollar cap hit in Nash.

6.5 million for 10 years for Suter?

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05-31-2012, 09:23 AM
  #123
TKG
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Originally Posted by jskramer83 View Post
We need to stop comparing Rick Nash to Marian Gaborik. His Career point average is closer to Derek Stepan or Dubinsky, and no where near Gaborik.

Yes he has some goals, but what worries me is he doesn't seem to make the players around him better, as should a player who is making his type of money

Have you seen the BJ's roster?

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05-31-2012, 09:23 AM
  #124
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I have a serious question for everyone:

Would anyone really be upset of the Rangers directed their efforts to bringing in Suter over any big-name offensive player this off-season?

Suter-Girardi
Staal-MDZ
McDonagh-Erixon/Schultz

I feel FAR more comfortable giving Suter a long-term deal over Parise or trading the required assets to bring in a 8 million dollar cap hit in Nash.

6.5 million for 10 years for Suter?

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Old
05-31-2012, 09:28 AM
  #125
Trxjw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I have a serious question for everyone:

Would anyone really be upset of the Rangers directed their efforts to bringing in Suter over any big-name offensive player this off-season?

Suter-Girardi
Staal-MDZ
McDonagh-Erixon/Schultz

I feel FAR more comfortable giving Suter a long-term deal over Parise or trading the required assets to bring in a 8 million dollar cap hit in Nash.

6.5 million for 10 years for Suter?
I just can't see Staal, Suter, and McDonagh co-existing. McDonagh was playing 27 minutes a night in the playoffs. No way is he going to be bumped to the third pairing. I don't think there's any reason to invest that kind of money in another defensemen, when what our blue line really needs is a competent player added to the bottom pairing.

If this team signs Suter, I think one of Staal or Del Zotto is on his way out.

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