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Old
05-31-2012, 12:51 PM
  #26
Dark Knight
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I think the Rangers would have to include Ryan MacDonagh for the Leafs to at least consider but the answer might still be no.

Kessel is almost untouchable.

If the offer remains intact, the Rangers might have to include a guy like Stepan or Kreider.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:00 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
I think the Rangers would have to include Ryan MacDonagh for the Leafs to at least consider but the answer might still be no.

Kessel is almost untouchable.

If the offer remains intact, the Rangers might have to include a guy like Stepan or Kreider.


So on the bolded part you mean: McDonagh, Del Zotto and Gaborik for Gunnarsson and Kessel? yeah right...

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05-31-2012, 01:02 PM
  #28
Vsevolod Bobrov
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
The (slight) upgrade from Gunnarsson to MDZ is no where near enough to make up for the six-year age difference between Kessel and Gaborik (who produced at a similar level this year).

There's not sufficient incentive for Toronto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribouPINE View Post
Well, Kessel > Gaborik.

6 years younger, $2M cheaper, a lot more durable (Gaborik has been fairly injury prone in his career).

MDZ > Gunnarsson

MDZ is a little younger, better puck mover and generally has a higher ceiling.


It's not an entirely awful deal or anything but the slight upgrade from Gunnar to MDZ doesn't warrant the "downgrade" from Kessel to Gaborik. And even if Gabs is a slightly better player (I'd say he is), the other factors (age, salary, durability, etc) increase Kessel value.

Either way, I wouldn't do it.
That's irrelevant since Kessel only has 2 years left on his contract.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:06 PM
  #29
The Podium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
So on the bolded part you mean: McDonagh, Del Zotto and Gaborik for Gunnarsson and Kessel? yeah right...
Pretty sure he mean instead of Del Zotto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
That's irrelevant since Kessel only has 2 years left on his contract.
Kessel will likely re-sign. His big problem in Boston was that he was an outcast, and was turned on by fans, his coach and his team. In Toronto he is treated like a semi-god most of the time, he has a hot girlfriend who lives here, he is close with many players on the team, and he and Burke have a great relationship. Soon after the Kessel trade, Burke came out to say how before he had Kessel, he was truly impressed by his character and did everything he could to acquire him. There is no way he lets him walk.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:06 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
So on the bolded part you mean: McDonagh, Del Zotto and Gaborik for Gunnarsson and Kessel? yeah right...
No.

McD + Gabby

for

Kessel + Gunnar

Even then the Leafs wont do it I think.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:09 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
and this is how threads get derailed lol...
Please ignore that post, he does not speak for all of us.

Everyone knows Del Z is a great player, those that don't study stats more than they watch games (or study the wrong stats).

As many have said before OP this is one of those rare pretty fair value trade proposal we see around here, so kudos for that.That said....

Kessel is our guy. As said before by others his age, contract (quite reasonable) and the history behind our aquisition would make trading him near unthinkable. It would require a name like Malkin to even consider it (which of course is unlikely and we would have to add much more) . Phil fits in pretty well in Toronto, his game doesn't suffer from the pressure of our market and he has his spot in the young nucleus that is slowly but surely growing together. As wingers go there are few in his age group with comperable talent.

I would like to thank the OP for a respectful post though. We Leaf fans are of course the villians of HF boards because we have such a Huge fanbase with some very loud members (usually the least informed ones). So thank you for giving Phil his props, great proposal .

I will say the Rangers are pretty close to Stanley. I am not sure you want to mess with your chemestry too much and Del Z played a big role in your success (yes we would love to have him) and Gaborik already is comfortable in the system. You guys may be one or two players away from the Cup and those players might be had through free agency. I worry you guys will get Rick Nash but kill your depth as a consequences. If you guys could get him at only the cost of your second line left winger and non rosters players and picks you will be my pick to fight Pittsburg for the Eastern finals next year.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:10 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
No.

McD + Gabby

for

Kessel + Gunnar

Even then the Lea[fs wont do it I think.
Are u out of your mind, as great as Kessel been for us, McDonagh alone is a fair offer for him value-wise and I had maybe pull the trigger if he was indeed offered because McDonagh will soon be a legit top 10 defender in the league if he isn't yet.

Possible franchise D is better than possible franchise winger.


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Old
05-31-2012, 01:11 PM
  #33
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Wow some people are a little uneducated when it comes to this game. Sorry how does a 40+ point dman in Del Zotto suck?

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:13 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Okay, so... Kessel + Gunnarsson for Gaborik + MDZ + 2012 1st? It's a late first, but you can still found solid players late in the draft. Stepan, Callahan, Lundqvist etc are all later picks.
Pretty fair offer here but just as most said Kessel is too valuable for us given his age, contract, and potential.

It would have to be someone like McDonagh coming back our way in order for us trade Kessel to NYR because his value to the Leafs is just as much McDonagh's value is to the Rangers.

So yeah, in the end both clubs would decline and go their own way.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:15 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Sniper99 View Post
Wow some people are a little uneducated when it comes to this game. Sorry how does a 40+ point dman in Del Zotto suck?
He's great, young and just coming into his won but remember we now have two similiar d-men like him in Liles and clone copy in Gardiner. He is definitely worth more than Gunnar but it would be stupid on our part to rid of Gunnar because he is the most comfortable and reliable worthy D-men our roster given any situation of the game. We would be left with massive inconsistency and defensive lapses in our end with-out him.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:16 PM
  #36
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I don't understand how you guys think MDZ is a "slight" upgrade to Gunner...?

Kessel holds more trade value than Gaborik, but MDZ holds much more than Gunner. If I'm the Rags, I say no. Especially considering its quite lopsided if Gaborik is healthy, which he was this season.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:18 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
No.

McD + Gabby

for

Kessel + Gunnar

Even then the Leafs wont do it I think.


Kessel and Gaborik is similar in point totals. Sure Kessel is younger and has a lower caphit but come on... McDonagh is a 22 year old #! defensemen still on his ELC. Gunnarsson would be our #4 if we moved Del Zotto.


McDonagh >>>>>> Gunnar

Kessel >> Gaborik.


AINEC.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:18 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
I don't understand how you guys think MDZ is a "slight" upgrade to Gunner...?

Kessel holds more trade value than Gaborik, but MDZ holds much more than Gunner. If I'm the Rags, I say no. Especially considering its quite lopsided if Gaborik is healthy, which he was this season.
20 point solid defensive two-way D vs. a 40 point lesser defensive two-way D. Overall play of both is relatively similar, slightly in Del Zotto's favour, however Del Zotto gets the further edge in age. It isn't that big of an upgrade...

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:20 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Lupes View Post
Are u out of your mind, as great as Kessel been for us, McDonagh alone is a fair offer for him value-wise and I had maybe pull the trigger if he was indeed offered because McDonagh will soon be a legit top 10 defender in the league if he isn't yet.

Possible franchise D is better than possible franchise winger.
thank you!

With that said both Kessel and McDonagh are great, young players.

Who would've thought a potential future Norris candidate would come out of the Gomez trade?

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:22 PM
  #40
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i cant see burke being interested in moving kessel at this point.

leafs defense is not desperate for young up and coming defenseman and if they were it could be addressed with our 5th overall pick without giving up kessel.

for burke to be convinced to part with kessel at this point i would think it would take a pretty massive type of overpayment. whatever you were going to pony up for nash, im sure burke would want that for kessel.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:23 PM
  #41
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No, we're still not interested.

Doesn't do it for us. Doesn't make us better now, and doesn't look like it'll make us better in the future.

We have solid D-men in the minors that are ready to break-in like Stu Percy, Korbinian Holzer, Jesse Blacker etc.

Stu Percy and Jesse Blacker both project to be top 4 defensemen. Holzer projects as a very dependable number 5.

An upgrade at D is not our top priority.

We need a better forward group overall and we need to add to Kessel.
this. x1000

we're not looking to shuffle the current line up. we're looking to add better players into our top 6. i.e. a top line center

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:23 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
i cant see burke being interested in moving kessel at this point.

leafs defense is not desperate for young up and coming defenseman and if they were it could be addressed with our 5th overall pick without giving up kessel.

for burke to be convinced to part with kessel at this point i would think it would take a pretty massive type of overpayment. whatever you were going to pony up for nash, im sure burke would want that for kessel.
Maybe more, we don't have to trade Kessel and have more than 5 teams to choose from if we wanted to.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:27 PM
  #43
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20 point solid defensive two-way D vs. a 40 point lesser defensive two-way D. Overall play of both is relatively similar, slightly in Del Zotto's favour, however Del Zotto gets the further edge in age. It isn't that big of an upgrade...
What are u talking about? I was qouting the guy who said we would decline the offer of McDonagh + Gaborik for Kessel and Gunnar which would be ridiculous because Kessel and Gaborik aren't much far in terms of production and offensive output and add to that McDonagh who in my opinion can possibly turn out to be the most valuable of them all in a few years.

Also, I love Gunnar but u can't deny that Del Zotto is clearly better and much more valuable commodity than him with his superior offensive ability, potential and given age, they may be quite farther apart in the defensive end but the gap between their offence and natural raw talent is too big for Gunnar to be considered better and more valuable in today's league.

look at it this way, would u rather Gardiner or Gunnar if u were given a choice of building around one of them.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:29 PM
  #44
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trading one goal scorer for another goal scorer doesn't make the Rangers or Leafs better.

There is no reason to do this deal.

The Rangers will STILL NEED SCORING so what's the point? Because someone thinks that Kessel will be a better PO performer?

Not guaranteed and if I can't be assured that I am getting a PO player, then the trades is lateral AT BEST.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:33 PM
  #45
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Im sure age and injury history plays part in his motive. Plus if I was an American Rangers fan I would rather have one of the best US born wingers on my team.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:36 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupes View Post
What are u talking about? I was qouting the guy who said we would decline the offer of McDonagh + Gaborik for Kessel and Gunnar which would be ridiculous because Kessel and Gaborik aren't much far in terms of production and offensive output and add to that McDonagh who in my opinion can possibly turn out to be the most valuable of them all in a few years.

Also, I love Gunnar but u can't deny that Del Zotto is clearly better and much more valuable commodity than him with his superior offensive ability, potential and given age, they may be quite farther apart in the defensive end but the gap between their offence and natural raw talent is too big for Gunnar to be considered better and more valuable in today's league.

look at it this way, would u rather Gardiner or Gunnar if u were given a choice of building around one of them.
He wasn't quoting you...

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:40 PM
  #47
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Yeah, obviously I wasn't speaking for all Leaf fans. I personally dislike Del Zotto and his defensive game - more often than not in the post season I found myself wondering what he was thinking on a given play, whether a pinch or just plain poor defensive coverage. He's incredibly overrated since he plays in front of the best goalie in the league. That's just me, however.

Kessel is untouchable for the Leafs, Gaborik is far too old now and Gunnarsson is the only person capable of playing with Phaneuf right now. So there's a more objective gauge on why this isn't a good trade.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:41 PM
  #48
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MDZ is redundant and Kessel is a better option then Gaborik.

Gunnarsson provides a great two-way defensive game while MDZ would be competing wiht Phaneuf and Gardiner for important time and that's not even counting Liles or Franson. Leafs say nope to this trade.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:43 PM
  #49
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The Rangers and Leafs don't make good trading partners, both have excess D and have need for forwards.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:53 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
Richards says HAI I have a NMC.
ha ha!!
you ignored my quote: "assuming there is player agreement to move".

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