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Rangers - Maple Leafs

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Old
05-31-2012, 02:15 PM
  #51
ChrisKreider20
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
ha ha!!
you ignored my quote: "assuming there is player agreement to move".
That's a pretty big stretch of an assumption.
Brad Richards want to be in NY. That's why he chose us for less money than the others.

There's no deal to be made with the Leafs.

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Old
05-31-2012, 02:25 PM
  #52
Flowzak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
No.

McD + Gabby

for

Kessel + Gunnar

Even then the Leafs wont do it I think.
If that was the deal, I would certainly think about it. Ryan McDonagh is arguably the Ranger's best defenseman and he's only what, 22? I would definitely think very hard about this. Not saying the Rangers even bother, but, it's definitely something to think about in terms of the Leafs. Still, Kessel is our only legit threat on offense (not sure if Lupul can withhold his level of production without Kessel) so it'd be kind of pointless for us to do a deal like this.

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Old
05-31-2012, 02:46 PM
  #53
The Amity Affliction
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It'd have to look something like...

Gaborik, Del Zotto, 1st, for Kessel and Gunnarson.

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Old
05-31-2012, 02:59 PM
  #54
cyris
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Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
That's irrelevant since Kessel only has 2 years left on his contract.
And he cant sign another contract here?

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Old
05-31-2012, 04:42 PM
  #55
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am I the only one who doesn't think Kessel > Gaborik? I mean Gaborik's career high in both points and goals is higher then Kessel's and he has also had another 5 season's higher then Kessel's 2nd best point total and 3 40 goal season's and another 38 goal season all better the Kessel's career high in goals. Gaborik also hasn't had a minus season since his first in the NHL. I realize that Kessel is younger and all but he's not proven to be a better player then Gaborik to this point in his career. at best there equal imo

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Old
05-31-2012, 04:46 PM
  #56
ChrisKreider20
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
am I the only one who doesn't think Kessel > Gaborik? I mean Gaborik's career high in both points and goals is higher then Kessel's and he has also had another 5 season's higher then Kessel's 2nd best point total and 3 40 goal season's and another 38 goal season all better the Kessel's career high in goals. Gaborik also hasn't had a minus season since his first in the NHL. I realize that Kessel is younger and all but he's not proven to be a better player then Gaborik to this point in his career. at best there equal imo
Kessel points (mostly at the beginning of the year) were definitely inflated by the style they played. I think he ended around where I think he'll product (+/- 10 points variance)* I do think they are very comparable players. However, Kessel's trade value will be moderately higher because of his age, and his injury history comparative to Gaborik.

*I see Kessel putting up between 65-85 points consistently for the next 5-10 seasons with a few outliers...

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05-31-2012, 04:51 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
And he cant sign another contract here?
He left Boston for the money the first time. My assumption is that he will once again go where the money is, the free market. He also doesn't look like a guy who's too fond of the media insanity. Add to that the opportunity to play with talent somewhere else. My bet is that Kessel is definitely gone from Toronto in 2014.

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05-31-2012, 04:54 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Kessel will likely re-sign. His big problem in Boston was that he was an outcast, and was turned on by fans, his coach and his team. In Toronto he is treated like a semi-god most of the time, he has a hot girlfriend who lives here, he is close with many players on the team, and he and Burke have a great relationship. Soon after the Kessel trade, Burke came out to say how before he had Kessel, he was truly impressed by his character and did everything he could to acquire him. There is no way he lets him walk.
lol yeah because when you're a millionaire athlete you need to be in Toronto to get a hot gf

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Old
05-31-2012, 06:00 PM
  #59
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Kessel = Gaborik

Del Zotto > Gunnarsson

We'd be taking a loss.

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Old
05-31-2012, 10:59 PM
  #60
Dark Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Kessel = Gaborik

Del Zotto > Gunnarsson

We'd be taking a loss.
Very well then. No trade.

The reason why I'm not advocating the deal even if it was McDonagh + Gaborik is because its a redundant move. McDonagh is a great young D-man, but we have a plethora of young D prospects that we have developed up to the point that they are ready for the NHL. We need to develop and add our homegrown players.

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Old
06-01-2012, 11:18 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
Very well then. No trade.

The reason why I'm not advocating the deal even if it was McDonagh + Gaborik is because its a redundant move. McDonagh is a great young D-man, but we have a plethora of young D prospects that we have developed up to the point that they are ready for the NHL. We need to develop and add our homegrown players.
Lol Rangers would never offer McDonagh and Gaborik for Kessel...

Sure you got some prospects but do you have a prospects that has #1 potential like McDonagh? No. So clearly it's not redundant, when your ranked 29th or something like that with GAA.

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Old
06-10-2012, 08:12 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
Very well then. No trade.

The reason why I'm not advocating the deal even if it was McDonagh + Gaborik is because its a redundant move. McDonagh is a great young D-man, but we have a plethora of young D prospects that we have developed up to the point that they are ready for the NHL. We need to develop and add our homegrown players.
You don't have a single prospect in your system who will be as good as McDonagh already is, including Gardiner.

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Old
06-10-2012, 08:53 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Lol Rangers would never offer McDonagh and Gaborik for Kessel...

Sure you got some prospects but do you have a prospects that has #1 potential like McDonagh? No. So clearly it's not redundant, when your ranked 29th or something like that with GAA.
What does being 29th in GAA in the NHL have to do with our defensive prospects. A prospect is someone who hasn't made it to the NHL yet.

Regardless, the Leafs should stay far away from Gaborik in a deal involving Kessel unless it's a significant overpayment.

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Old
06-10-2012, 08:58 PM
  #64
Phion Keneuf
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change Del Zotto to McDonagh and then i say maybe...

Kessel >> Gaborik ... not to mention the age difference, the cap hit difference, the injury history, the playoff disappearing acts, etc

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Old
06-10-2012, 09:02 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
change Del Zotto to McDonagh and then i say maybe...

Kessel >> Gaborik ... not to mention the age difference, the cap hit difference, the injury history, the playoff disappearing acts, etc
Gaby was in a sling at the Yankees game. He's out 6-7 months. He played hurt in the playoffs.

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Old
06-10-2012, 09:06 PM
  #66
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I wouldn't do it, but I like Kessel.

Value wise though your spot on IMO.

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Old
06-10-2012, 10:50 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Good value, however Del Zotto is only a slight upgrade on Gunnarsson and not enough of an incentive to give up Kessel for what basically is an injury prone, 6 year older, higher cap hit Kessel.
I keep seeing Leafs fans saying this. Do you know what the word "slight" means? You bring up the 6 year age difference between Kessel and Gaborik, but the 4 year age difference between Gunnar and MDZ means nothing? Del Zotto has scored more than double the points of Gunnarson this past season while also adding physical play and a greatly improved defense (something of a trend--his defensive game improved a lot last season as well). Not that it's the be all/end all, but Gunnarson was a -9 last season. MDZ was a +20 (tied for 11th in the NHL among defensemen).

As for Gaborik vs. Kessel, they are pretty close to even (I'd give the edge to Gaborik--both players have four 30 goal seasons, but Gaborik has an additional THREE 40+ goal seasons, including two of the last three seasons. Kessel has never crossed that mark. I'd rank them about even because Gaborik is in his prime, whereas Kessel is still getting there).

I get not wanting to trade Kessel for Gabs due to age (since the Leafs are still rebuilding) or injury concern (Gabs has plenty to be concerned about). But in terms of pure value, the Rangers are getting reamed in this trade. Toronto gets the best player in each swap, and it's a hell of a lot more than a "slight" upgrade with the defensemen.

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Old
06-10-2012, 11:52 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
I keep seeing Leafs fans saying this. Do you know what the word "slight" means? You bring up the 6 year age difference between Kessel and Gaborik, but the 4 year age difference between Gunnar and MDZ means nothing? Del Zotto has scored more than double the points of Gunnarson this past season while also adding physical play and a greatly improved defense (something of a trend--his defensive game improved a lot last season as well). Not that it's the be all/end all, but Gunnarson was a -9 last season. MDZ was a +20 (tied for 11th in the NHL among defensemen).

As for Gaborik vs. Kessel, they are pretty close to even (I'd give the edge to Gaborik--both players have four 30 goal seasons, but Gaborik has an additional THREE 40+ goal seasons, including two of the last three seasons. Kessel has never crossed that mark. I'd rank them about even because Gaborik is in his prime, whereas Kessel is still getting there).

I get not wanting to trade Kessel for Gabs due to age (since the Leafs are still rebuilding) or injury concern (Gabs has plenty to be concerned about). But in terms of pure value, the Rangers are getting reamed in this trade. Toronto gets the best player in each swap, and it's a hell of a lot more than a "slight" upgrade with the defensemen.
MDZ and Gunnarson have different roles. Gunnar will never have an offensive season to rival MDZ's best and he's not expected to. He's a two way guy whose primary role is in his own end of the ice. He was by far the best defensive defenseman on the Leafs last year.

Another thing that makes people view the swap less favourably is Toronto has several D men who could provide a similar role to MDZ both on the roster and in the system. Obviously that has nothing to do with Gunnarson vs MDZ, but when looking at the trade in a broad sense it makes it look worse for the Leafs since it fills no need.

MDZ is a great young D man and the Leafs would absolutely love to acquire him, its just that in this particular proposal, where the Kessel/Gaborik swap is intended to be offset by swapping Gunnarson/MDZ, it makes it look like the gap is smaller than it may actually be.

Also, +/- as an argument when your goalies are Lundqist or Reimer/Gustavsson/Scrivens doesn't really paint a full picture.

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Old
06-11-2012, 12:12 AM
  #69
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If I'm one of the upper-echelon teams and had to choose between Gaborik and Kessel, I would probably choose Gaborik, he has been more consistent recently and I feel would give a better chance to win now than Kessel.

If I'm one of the lower teams, I would choose Kessel due to age and still the potential of even better stats possibly with a better center.


Would love to have MDZ on the Leafs, absolutely loved him on the Knights for his short stint there. Problem with him though is it's harder to find room for him. Currently our more offensive minded defensemen include Phaneuf, Liles, Gardiner and Franson. I would rather have Phaneuf over MDZ skill wise. I would rather have MDZ over Franson. Gardiner showed some great potential though, would rather keep him, at least for now. Skill wise and due to potential, I would rather have MDZ than Liles (yes I know, Liles did have a fantastic season before his head injury but I like MDZ) but with that said, Liles is not only our oldest defensemen, he is the oldest player on our team. I would rather keep him for a vet presence. That's Phaneuf that I would rather have playing instead of MDZ and Liles for his vet presence as well. That would leave Gardiner battling it out with MDZ for the 3rd offensive defenseman spot. Since Gardiner could be just as good/better, I don't see it worth giving up the assets to get him even thought I would love to have him. If Liles is shipped out to get a more defensive minded veteran, I would be all for trading for MDZ personally and going with Phaneuf, Gardiner and MDZ as the offensive guys on the back end.

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