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Ryan McDonagh & Dan Girardi

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Old
05-31-2012, 02:24 PM
  #26
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Pietrangelo is one of the top-3 defensemen in the game right now?!?

No wonder why you're saying what you're saying. Sorry, but Pietrangelo is not better than Weber, Keith, Chara, Suter, Doughty, or even Lidstrom. Not happening, and I LOVE Pietrangelo and avidly follow the blues, as they're my #3 team behind the Rangers and Kings, and are a huge reason as to why I have center ice.
Pietrangelo is pretty clearly better than Lidstrom was this year (not in his prime, of course).

I think you could easily argue that he's as good as Doughty. I'd give the others the nod--to a greater or lesser extent.

Perhaps what he meant to say was that Pietrangelo is one of the three most "valuable" defenseman in the league? In that case, considering age, contract status, etc., I'd probably agree.

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05-31-2012, 02:25 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by JWells16 View Post
Pens offer:
Eric Tangradi, Tom Kuhnhackl, Brian Strait, and a 2nd round draft pick

But more realistically,
Eric Tangradi, Zbynek Michalek, and Brian Strait
I'll bump that up to

Martin, Tangradi, Michalek, Strait, 2013 1st, TK, 2012 2nd, Kuhnakl

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Old
05-31-2012, 03:04 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
I'll bump that up to

Martin, Tangradi, Michalek, Strait, 2013 1st, TK, 2012 2nd, Kuhnakl
Meh, I didn't include Martin and TK because I feel like they might have negative value. But yea, I would still do that.

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Old
05-31-2012, 03:06 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
I know, definitely ridiculous. McDonagh is barely a top pairing defenseman at this stage. Giroux is one of the top 5 forwards in the league and is still a kid.
Easy guy.

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05-31-2012, 03:19 PM
  #30
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
No, McDonagh is the better of the two. I absolutely love the kid. He's the absolute PERFECT #2 defenseman, and a middle of the pack #1. But to compare him to Pietrangelo is insane.
The coach who plays Girardi more disagree's with you. As do people who watched McDonagh get beat at times in the playoffs while Girardi was rock solid. McDonagh may have more upside, but he's not better now. Still can't believe you got him for Gomez...

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05-31-2012, 03:22 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Pietrangelo is one of the top-3 defensemen in the game right now?!?

No wonder why you're saying what you're saying. Sorry, but Pietrangelo is not better than Weber, Keith, Chara, Suter, Doughty, or even Lidstrom. Not happening, and I LOVE Pietrangelo and avidly follow the blues, as they're my #3 team behind the Rangers and Kings, and are a huge reason as to why I have center ice.
Pietrangelo was 4th in votes as a candidate and is light years better than Duncan Keith. Keith hasn't played well the last two seasons. Personally, I think he had a better year than Weber.

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05-31-2012, 03:23 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
McD -- not traded, except as part of package for uber-elite sniper Malkin/Stamkos.

Girardi, must get 1 top good young sniper minimal baggage. That's his value. Prefer to move instead of Staal in most cases, like Staal slightly more, IMO Erixon already here next year and ALL the D we have in our system who have any chance are righty. So Girardi is expendable he is more replaceable immediately with McIlrath/J. Schultz (if we can get him).
Wow stop it already... how's Girardi expendable?

McDonagh, Staal, Del Zotto, Erixon are all lefties and NHL ready.

Girardi, Stralman (lol...) and McIllrath (not nhl ready) are righties.

You're hung up on our prospects except Erixon ain't left handed but you don't use your head and think that Erixon, McD, MDZ and Staal are all young and will be players for +10 years so why are we in a rush to get more LD's?

We need RD's so stop offering Girardi in EVERY offer you make. Please.... I beg of you, please stop.

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05-31-2012, 03:26 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Pietrangelo is pretty clearly better than Lidstrom was this year (not in his prime, of course).

I think you could easily argue that he's as good as Doughty. I'd give the others the nod--to a greater or lesser extent.

Perhaps what he meant to say was that Pietrangelo is one of the three most "valuable" defenseman in the league? In that case, considering age, contract status, etc., I'd probably agree.
No I meant what I said. Chara is the best defenseman in the game for my money. Karlsson, while not a traditional defenseman impacts the game more, so I give him a nod as well. I think Pietrangelo is better than Weber defensively and in transition, but I could see other people feeling differently because of the extra physical dimension that Weber brings. I may revise my statement to top 4. I think he's better than Doughty, Suter, Lidstrom (this year's version) and anyone else you care to name.

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05-31-2012, 03:26 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
The bolded statement makes this conversation moot. McD is a great young defenseman. But he's not in the same class at Pietrangelo. He's a future perhaps current #2, Pietrangelo is a future perhaps current Norris type guy.
Ranked 6th in even strength points, was the best D on the team that had the 3rd lowest GAA on his first full year in NHL. Had 32 points, was +25. Played +25 minutes and replaced a premier shutdown D in Marc Staal and made it look easy. He played elite D all season long.

32 points without PP time mixed with elite D on his first full year doesn't scream #1 D to you?

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05-31-2012, 03:29 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
EDM is in the need for some dmen so what would it take to get two of
McDo, MDZ, or Girardi.

2013 1st
Hemsky
Marincin
prospect

Would that work


2012 1st, and Eberle. Take it or leave it. Girardi is an all star + 27 minutes shutdown D. And McDonagh is a future Norris Trophy candidate.

The value is there but I wouldn't do that trade since we would suck in our zone.


You can have MDZ +1st 2012 for Eberle/RNH or Hall. Overpayment needed for our young elite D corps, peace.

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05-31-2012, 03:36 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
2012 1st, and Eberle. Take it or leave it. Girardi is an all star + 27 minutes shutdown D. And McDonagh is a future Norris Trophy candidate.

The value is there but I wouldn't do that trade since we would suck in our zone.


You can have MDZ +1st 2012 for Eberle/RNH or Hall. Overpayment needed for our young elite D corps, peace.
Do you really think Del Zotto is "elite"?

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05-31-2012, 03:37 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Ranked 6th in even strength points, was the best D on the team that had the 3rd lowest GAA on his first full year in NHL. Had 32 points, was +25. Played +25 minutes and replaced a premier shutdown D in Marc Staal and made it look easy. He played elite D all season long.

32 points without PP time mixed with elite D on his first full year doesn't scream #1 D to you?
Again, he plays the 2nd most minutes on your team. It makes him your #2. He isn't behind Chara and Weber either. Both he and Girardi are excellent defenseman, but he isn't a #1. #1 defensemen play in all situations including PP. He was 3rd in PP time behind MDZ and Girardi. He's a #2 guy, time will tell if he develops into a #1. Some guys just don't improve at the rate you hope they will. See Phaneuf and Doughty as prime examples. Phaneuf had 20 goals and 49 points as a 19 year old defenseman his first year. He also played shutdown minutes. Players have different development curves. Maybe McDonagh becomes a true #1 like Weber or Lidstrom, but maybe he peaks now.

Of course if you mean #1 as in a top 30 guy in the league I agree with you that he is that. But that would make Jokinen a #1 center too.

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Old
05-31-2012, 03:43 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Do you really think Del Zotto is "elite"?
''Elite D corps'' Corps, like plural, meaning he's a part of it. Didn't say he's elite himself, but he's real good given his age and has got tremendous potential.

As I said you gotta pay to get. A young PMD 41 points this season and 10 points in 20 Playoff games + alot of bruised crossbars

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05-31-2012, 03:47 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Again, he plays the 2nd most minutes on your team. It makes him your #2. He isn't behind Chara and Weber either. Both he and Girardi are excellent defenseman, but he isn't a #1. #1 defensemen play in all situations including PP. He was 3rd in PP time behind MDZ and Girardi. He's a #2 guy, time will tell if he develops into a #1. Some guys just don't improve at the rate you hope they will. See Phaneuf and Doughty as prime examples. Phaneuf had 20 goals and 49 points as a 19 year old defenseman his first year. He also played shutdown minutes. Players have different development curves. Maybe McDonagh becomes a true #1 like Weber or Lidstrom, but maybe he peaks now.

Of course if you mean #1 as in a top 30 guy in the league I agree with you that he is that. But that would make Jokinen a #1 center too.

Lmao McDonagh has been our best D, Girardi was extremely good too. But McDonagh has put up good numbres and he played +25 min in reg season and +27 mins in the playoff. McDonagh has been best overall. Girardi has been super good too. But McDonagh beat him by a small margin. Look at the plays he makes. 1 game for instance against the Devs he skates backs and stops Parise and then later Kovalchuck on a breakaway. Minutes aren't everything bro. When healthy and in form Crosby plays more than Malkin making Malking the #2. That doens't mean Malkin isn't a #1 star player...

Whatever, arguing with you is like trying to learn Scott Gomez how to score again. It can't be done. It just hurts too much.

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05-31-2012, 04:45 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Lmao McDonagh has been our best D, Girardi was extremely good too. But McDonagh has put up good numbres and he played +25 min in reg season and +27 mins in the playoff. McDonagh has been best overall. Girardi has been super good too. But McDonagh beat him by a small margin. Look at the plays he makes. 1 game for instance against the Devs he skates backs and stops Parise and then later Kovalchuck on a breakaway. Minutes aren't everything bro. When healthy and in form Crosby plays more than Malkin making Malking the #2. That doens't mean Malkin isn't a #1 star player...

Whatever, arguing with you is like trying to learn Scott Gomez how to score again. It can't be done. It just hurts too much.
My point exactly. McDonagh plays behind Girardi. Not a player like Weber or Chara. Malkin plays behind arguably the best player in the world, meaning he can still be arguably the 2nd best player in the world. Torts obviously disagree's with your assessment of McDonagh. Generally coaches play the best players the most minutes unless they can't handle extended minutes or are a liability in certain situations. McDonagh isn't a liability anywhere and can handle extended minutes, so clearly Torts thinks Girardi is just plain better.

You can isolate individual plays all you want. I remember Hamrlik scoring a beauty end to end goal Bobby Orr style. He's not Bobby Orr. So one play he made against the Devils has no bearing on what type of player he is. McDonagh got roasted on several occasions againt the Caps. Doesn't mean he's a pylon.

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05-31-2012, 04:48 PM
  #41
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Actually Giroux is one of the few guys I would move McDonagh for.

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05-31-2012, 04:51 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
My point exactly. McDonagh plays behind Girardi. Not a player like Weber or Chara. Malkin plays behind arguably the best player in the world, meaning he can still be arguably the 2nd best player in the world. Torts obviously disagree's with your assessment of McDonagh. Generally coaches play the best players the most minutes unless they can't handle extended minutes or are a liability in certain situations. McDonagh isn't a liability anywhere and can handle extended minutes, so clearly Torts thinks Girardi is just plain better.

You can isolate individual plays all you want. I remember Hamrlik scoring a beauty end to end goal Bobby Orr style. He's not Bobby Orr. So one play he made against the Devils has no bearing on what type of player he is. McDonagh got roasted on several occasions againt the Caps. Doesn't mean he's a pylon.
He doesn't really play behind Girardi. He plays with him. However, Torts will give Girardi a bit more time all things being equal because of NY's left hand depth. There's a big difference with having Staal replace McDonagh for a shift and having Stralman replace Girardi for a shift.

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05-31-2012, 04:55 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
He doesn't really play behind Girardi. He plays with him. However, Torts will give Girardi a bit more time all things being equal because of NY's left hand depth. There's a big difference with having Staal replace McDonagh for a shift and having Stralman replace Girardi for a shift.
Lots of defenseman play their off-side. There are positives and negatives to it. The way a player shoots effects centermen way more than defenseman. If you have a sniper on the right side you likely want a lefty playing with him. Well-rounded defensemen like McDonagh benefit from being of the off-side in the offensive zone, it hurts a bit defensively.

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05-31-2012, 04:57 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Lots of defenseman play their off-side. There are positives and negatives to it. The way a player shoots effects centermen way more than defenseman. If you have a sniper on the right side you likely want a lefty playing with him. Well-rounded defensemen like McDonagh benefit from being of the off-side in the offensive zone, it hurts a bit defensively.
Not with the Rangers...
Defensive performance is the number one important thing in our system. Torts strongly prefers to keep players on their natural side. He will occasionally put MDZ on Staal's right but you can tell he is uncomfortable with it.
Torts will never put McDonagh on the right side.

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05-31-2012, 04:59 PM
  #45
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The value of McDonagh is pretty much right on par with that of Pietrangelo. They play different games, but they are both very well rounded, high-end defenseman.

It's kind of stupid to have "value of" threads for players you have no intention of moving though, I mean, there's no way I would offer you a package that you would accept.

Best to just be happy you have him and not make the thread.

All that said, yeh, whatever you value Pietrangelo as is what you should value McD at (roughly).

For Girardi, you probably won't be too happy with my offer: 1st round pick, 2nd round pick 2013.

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05-31-2012, 05:05 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
The value of McDonagh is pretty much right on par with that of Pietrangelo. They play different games, but they are both very well rounded, high-end defenseman.

It's kind of stupid to have "value of" threads for players you have no intention of moving though, I mean, there's no way I would offer you a package that you would accept.

Best to just be happy you have him and not make the thread.

All that said, yeh, whatever you value Pietrangelo as is what you should value McD at (roughly).
...and Karlsson?

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05-31-2012, 05:34 PM
  #47
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...and Karlsson?
Karlsson doesn't have a value. He will not be traded. Period.

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Old
05-31-2012, 05:51 PM
  #48
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McDonaugh won't be traded, but for the sake of having a Karlsson/McDonaugh pairing in "imagination land" I'll toss an offer out there.

Mika Zibanejad + Nick Foligno/Colin Greening + Matt Puempel + OTT 1st 2012

for

Ryan McDonaugh + Mid level Defence prospect

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Old
05-31-2012, 06:02 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
2012 1st, and Eberle. Take it or leave it. Girardi is an all star + 27 minutes shutdown D. And McDonagh is a future Norris Trophy candidate.

The value is there but I wouldn't do that trade since we would suck in our zone.


You can have MDZ +1st 2012 for Eberle/RNH or Hall. Overpayment needed for our young elite D corps, peace.
Yakupov > Girardi
Eberle > McDonagh

no thanks

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05-31-2012, 06:03 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Gritzky98 View Post
Yakupov > Girardi
Eberle > McDonagh

no thanks
Besides the fact that there's clear homerism to your post.

Yakupov hasn't played a freaking NHL game!

Heck, you haven't even drafted him yet.

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