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Old
05-31-2012, 03:36 PM
  #76
Bubba88
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
No need to get upset Hoss.
sorry, but it's really hard to stay cool when you have to read through this threads. The HF user part of me wishes that we would have never won the cup. Some guys totally lost their minds and we have a lot of new ****** posters that only follow the hawks because of the Cup Win.

I've never been to Chicago and I've never seen them live, but I get up at 3 AM just to see how Deron Quint plays on our D

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05-31-2012, 03:45 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
sorry, but it's really hard to stay cool when you have to read through this threads. The HF user part of me wishes that we would have never won the cup. Some guys totally lost their minds and we have a lot of new ****** posters that only follow the hawks because of the Cup Win.
All of us started somewhere. Yes, I'm a new Hawks fan. This year was the first year I actually followed them (I watched them a little bit as a kid and went to games like 15 years ago every once and awhile), but that doesn't mean I'm not a "Hawks fan". If you never got new fans when your team won the cup, all fanbases would just get older, eventually die off, and the sport would have nobody. Getting new fans is a good thing, even if they are "new" and have not followed the team for 10's of years.

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05-31-2012, 03:46 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
sorry, but it's really hard to stay cool when you have to read through this threads. The HF user part of me wishes that we would have never won the cup. Some guys totally lost their minds and we have a lot of new ****** posters that only follow the hawks because of the Cup Win.

I've never been to Chicago and I've never seen them live, but I get up at 3 AM just to see how Deron Quint plays on our D
Going until Toews was drafted knowing there was never going to be a chance in hell of winning anything, you have to appreciate this opportunity the Hawks have now. To see it squandered, how could that not make you angry? I mean, if you really think this team is a Cup contender, I guess that's where the debate ends. But I'm pretty sure you know the difference and that right now we don't have it. Furthermore, we can have it but refuse to get it.

And you make a good point about being in Chicago. Granted, some of our fans from elsewhere are on the side of demanding a much better team and results, but I have noticed that most have lived in Chicago, went through all of the **** with Wirtz and just can't take it anymore, Cup or no Cup.

And I disagree on the "new" fans, generally they seem much more tolerant because of the Cup win and I hate that dynamic in our fan base.

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05-31-2012, 04:06 PM
  #79
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why should I be angry?

I've seen this team with Reto von Arx on it, Denis Arkhipov on it, Quint manning the blue line with Jon Klemm and having Michael Leighton in goal with Steve Passmore and Adam Munro.

Times have been worse without a good prospect pool. Now, we have elite talent, spend more than any other team on the players in real salary and have won the Cup 2 years ago. Why do we waste anything? Toews has 10 years left on his level of play. Keith has 12 years left on his contract. Our Core is signed longterm and we have one of the best prospect pools in the NHL with another good pick without seeing what our BEST Prospects can do in the NHL.
I'm not angry, I'm happy. I'm happy that we have the chance to see those players on our team, I'm happy that we make the POs every year now. I too young to have seen the "good times/years". Now I have the chance to see a great team with elite players that already has won the cup. I want a chance to win it every year and Bowman build a team that will be a contender for the next 10 years. People need to be more patient with our team and with our GM. We are not like the old Sharks or aging Nucks. We have a young team with a young core and already won the Cup. They have a old core and never won anything.

I became a fan (or better said interested in them) when they had Roenick and Belfour. I started to get up at night when they were really bad. I started when Aitken played 50% of the season as DMan, Daze was near his retirement and Thibault was the only guy that really gave us a chance to win. I know why many like(d) Havlat.

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05-31-2012, 04:25 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Going until Toews was drafted knowing there was never going to be a chance in hell of winning anything, you have to appreciate this opportunity the Hawks have now. To see it squandered, how could that not make you angry? I mean, if you really think this team is a Cup contender, I guess that's where the debate ends. But I'm pretty sure you know the difference and that right now we don't have it. Furthermore, we can have it but refuse to get it.

And you make a good point about being in Chicago. Granted, some of our fans from elsewhere are on the side of demanding a much better team and results, but I have noticed that most have lived in Chicago, went through all of the **** with Wirtz and just can't take it anymore, Cup or no Cup.

And I disagree on the "new" fans, generally they seem much more tolerant because of the Cup win and I hate that dynamic in our fan base.
Right, because it makes sense for the fans that went through the dark years to be *****ing and whining now that the team is finally making the playoffs every year, coming off a very recent Cup win and has a strong core locked up for the foreseeable futue.

It seems to me it's the new fans that hate Bowman the most and it's the new fans that are the most disappointed that the Cup party didn't last more than 1 season. It's very clear when they say things like "Why the **** did Bowman have to trade Buff and Steeger?!"

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05-31-2012, 04:28 PM
  #81
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I've missed a very small handful of games in the last 15+ years whether it be radio or tv and as a Hawks fan, it's always been a two faced proposition for me. Loving the team, loving the players, no matter who we had and hating the organization for putting the players and the fans in such a terrible position. Now they don't launch anyone with talent and have people that know what they are doing and they "say" they want to contend for the Cup every year but pardon me and others if we see unused cap space and don't harken back to a time when money was not spent and we all knew exactly why. Any kind of money saved or left unspent by this franchise now when they look me in the eye and tell me things have changed and they are trying now makes me angry. If they want me to be content with the roster no matter what, go back to the way it was and don't lie to me. Because that's what it is for me, this is WAYYY too early and the wounds are too fresh to start saving Wirtz corp money at the expense of the team for whatever reason and me sitting here and being ok with it while the team isn't having the success the organization supposedly strives for now and the organization says they are committed. They should know better. They have a lot of work to do and they act like it is all over because of the Cup. And then for Rocky to have the balls to come out and whine about loans needing to be paid back, losing money, etc. It's not over, that trust has not been fully gained and I'm insulted that they think it is. I know a lot of other people who feel the exact same way.

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05-31-2012, 04:43 PM
  #82
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Enough about cap space coldsteel. They spent more actual money than anyone in the league last year. If you want to blame someone for Chicago not spending to the cap, you can blame your beloved Tallon for signing players to contracts that, if handled properly or not handed out at all could have been kept and/or not buried in Europe (Huet).

You act like the Hawks on are a one-way track back to 2003-04.. despite the fact that the core is locked up, they have a huge talent pipeline and they have people in marketing who, whether you like them or not, would not allow Chicago to toil at the bottom of the league.

Get over the fact that Chicago didn't pursue Brad Richards last year. Get over the fact that Chicago may not pursue Ryan Suter this year. They have their star players and they have a good team that because of decisions made without foresight have to go through a mini-rebuild/retooling phase.


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05-31-2012, 04:46 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Shut the **** up about cap space coldsteel. They spent more actual money than anyone in the league last year. If you want to blame someone for Chicago not spending to the cap, you can blame your beloved Tallon for signing players to contracts that, if handled properly or not handed out at all could have been kept and/or not buried in Europe (Huet).

You act like the Hawks on are a one-way track back to 2003-04.. despite the fact that the core is locked up, they have a huge talent pipeline and they have people in marketing who, whether you like them or not, would not allow Chicago to toil at the bottom of the league.

Get over the fact that Chicago didn't pursue Brad Richards last year. Get over the fact that Chicago may not pursue Ryan Suter this year. They have their star players and they have a good team that because of decisions made without foresight have to go through a mini-rebuild/retooling phase.
How about this? Go through everything as planned with the "mini-rebuild" WHILE spending the god damned mother ****ing space, and wisely, no retard moves!

Why is there such an aversion to spending to the cap? It's not like there aren't quality players willing to sign 1, 2 year deals to get us up to the top. Then I can accept, "we tried, the players and coaches failed"

Furthermore, I'm tired of making moves based on marketing and not on winning. And I'm tired of Kane being such a big story because of P.R. That should be the least of their concerns.


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05-31-2012, 04:58 PM
  #84
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we all know they don't need more star players, they need more support guys. Problem is, we have an incompetent GM that either doesn't understand that, or just gets the wrong support guys.

Bubba, I am by no means a "new" Hawks fan, I've been with this team through thick and thin. Just because they won the cup in 2010 doesn't mean I'm ready to settle for another 48 years of ********.

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05-31-2012, 04:58 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
How about this? Go through everything as planned with the "mini-rebuild" WHILE spending the god damned mother ****ing space, and wisely, no retard moves!

Why is there such an avertion to spending to the cap?
You're hopeless. The Hawks spent 4M more than the next closest team last year and on top of that you want them to spend to the cap for the sake of spending to the cap?

Why don't you try sitting back, relaxing and pretend that Chicago isn't anywhere near as bad off as you so firmly believe they are.

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05-31-2012, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
How about this? Go through everything as planned with the "mini-rebuild" WHILE spending the god damned mother ****ing space, and wisely, no retard moves!

Why is there such an aversion to spending to the cap? It's not like there aren't quality players willing to sign 1, 2 year deals to get us up to the top. Then I can accept, "we tried, the players and coaches failed"

Furthermore, I'm tired of making moves based on marketing and not on winning. And I'm tired of Kane being such a big story because of P.R. That should be the least of their concerns.
If you're tired of moves being based on marketing then you're tired of McD, not Bowman. Again, you're beloved Tallon signed Huet "because of marketing" and signed Hossa over Havlat "because of marketing". You can't say "If Bowman won't stand up to McD then get someone in that will" because even golden boy Tallon didn't/wouldn't. Being displaced from his position of GM is not "standing up" to McD.

Kane's a big story because of the Chicago media and his stature. The Blackhawks had no hand in making Kane's partying into a story.

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05-31-2012, 05:04 PM
  #87
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Why don't you try sitting back, relaxing and pretend that Chicago isn't anywhere near as bad off as you so firmly believe they are.
I hope you're right. Are you ready to stick with that through a non-playoff/1st round loss season again? How far does it go for you? When does that result become unacceptable for you, losing in the 1st round or missing the playoffs? When do you call for Bowman's head? When do you start calling out Rocky? 1 more year? 2 more years? 3 more years? After a coaching change happens and we still get the same result? Because I am trying to see where you are coming from but I can't do that without knowing your time table for remaining patient and just how much you are willing to go through while maintaining seemingly unwaving faith in Bowman and co.?

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05-31-2012, 05:11 PM
  #88
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we all know they don't need more star players, they need more support guys. Problem is, we have an incompetent GM that either doesn't understand that, or just gets the wrong support guys.

Bubba, I am by no means a "new" Hawks fan, I've been with this team through thick and thin. Just because they won the cup in 2010 doesn't mean I'm ready to settle for another 48 years of ********.
Really? Because I'm almost positive the "support" guys on the Cup team were mostly prospects/young players that were acquired via trade (Versteeg, Sharp, Ladd, Eager, Fraser) or draft picks that developed over the years (Buff, Brouwer, Bolland, Burish, Hammer).

I don't remember too many FA signings, especially in "support" roles that Tallon signed that actually contributed to the Cup win.

What has Bowman done since taking over? He's drafted a **** load of players (Saad, McNeill, Danault, Johns, Clendening, K.Hayes, Shaw, etc) and traded for some good young players/prospects (Leddy, Morin, J.Hayes).. to go along with some FA signings that have worked (Mayers, Carcillo) and some that haven't (O'Donnell, Brunette).

I've said before.. we won't really have a grasp for Bowman's lasting impact on the organization until we see what transpires from the area he's contributed to the most in, which is trading for and drafting young, talented players to fill those "support" roles long-term.

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05-31-2012, 05:20 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I hope you're right. Are you ready to stick with that through a non-playoff/1st round loss season again? How far does it go for you? When does that result become unacceptable for you, losing in the 1st round or missing the playoffs? When do you call for Bowman's head? When do you start calling out Rocky? 1 more year? 2 more years? 3 more years? After a coaching change happens and we still get the same result? Because I am trying to see where you are coming from but I can't do that without knowing your time table for remaining patient and just how much you are willing to go through while maintaining seemingly unwaving faith in Bowman and co.?
We've never missed the playoffs under Bowman, so I don't see why you need to provide that option. As far as watching another 1st round loss, yeah that would be disappointing and yes I likely would feel like the team could have done more.. but I've felt that way the past two years too and in one of those years the difference between advancing and being eliminated was a near-Sharp miss and a clearing gaffe. This year, the difference was 3 OT losses in which I felt the Hawks didn't even need to go to OT in the majority of the games.

I'll tell you something right now though.. it would take much more than a couple 1st round losses, while spending the most money in the league for me to start questioning or getting mad with Rocky. I hope that McD isn't as involved in hockey operations as he is and if he is I would hope Rocky would step in and let the hockey minds worry about hockey descisions.. but we're talking about a guy that's been a god-send to Blackhawk fans.

And, P.S.. I don't have "unwavering faith" in Bowman and the Hawks managment.. But I do have alot of faith in the core that's locked up long-term and the prospects that aren't very far from contributing to the NHL team. However, I'll continue to defend Bowman for things I feel he should be defended for.

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05-31-2012, 05:31 PM
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Really? Because I'm almost positive the "support" guys on the Cup team were mostly prospects/young players that were acquired via trade (Versteeg, Sharp, Ladd, Eager, Fraser) or draft picks that developed over the years (Buff, Brouwer, Bolland, Burish, Hammer).

I don't remember too many FA signings, especially in "support" roles that Tallon signed that actually contributed to the Cup win.

What has Bowman done since taking over? He's drafted a **** load of players (Saad, McNeill, Danault, Johns, Clendening, K.Hayes, Shaw, etc) and traded for some good young players/prospects (Leddy, Morin, J.Hayes).. to go along with some FA signings that have worked (Mayers, Carcillo) and some that haven't (O'Donnell, Brunette).

I've said before.. we won't really have a grasp for Bowman's lasting impact on the organization until we see what transpires from the area he's contributed to the most in, which is trading for and drafting young, talented players to fill those "support" roles long-term.
Hossa, Kopecky, Madden, Campbell, Sopel.

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05-31-2012, 05:45 PM
  #91
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Hossa, Kopecky, Madden, Campbell, Sopel.
Hossa and Campbell were signed to be impact players.

Madden, Kopecky and Sopel were good 4th liners and bottom-pairing Dmen on the Cup team.. but those aren't players that were the difference between winning the Cup or not. Madden was the biggest contributer.. but they could have done better than Sopel at 2.33M and Kopecky was an average 4th liner when they won.

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05-31-2012, 05:52 PM
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Hossa and Campbell were signed to be impact players.

Madden, Kopecky and Sopel were good 4th liners and bottom-pairing Dmen on the Cup team.. but those aren't players that were the difference between winning the Cup or not. Madden was the biggest contributer.. but they could have done better than Sopel at 2.33M and Kopecky was an average 4th liner when they won.
they were all impact players who made an impact on the team.

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05-31-2012, 06:05 PM
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they were all impact players who made an impact on the team.
No they weren't. We still win the Cup without Kopecky and Sopel, especially Sopel who's caphit could have been used on a better all-round Dman. The only player that made a significant impact on the team that was in a support role was Madden, and, believe it or not, I have a funny feeling we still win the Cup without him. He was a valuable PKer.. but we had Sharp and Versteeg as our 3rd string PKers that year and Ladd, Brouwer and Burish who all PK with the teams they're on now and a good job.

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05-31-2012, 06:58 PM
  #94
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No they weren't. We still win the Cup without Kopecky and Sopel, especially Sopel who's caphit could have been used on a better all-round Dman. The only player that made a significant impact on the team that was in a support role was Madden, and, believe it or not, I have a funny feeling we still win the Cup without him. He was a valuable PKer.. but we had Sharp and Versteeg as our 3rd string PKers that year and Ladd, Brouwer and Burish who all PK with the teams they're on now and a good job.
Kopecky and Sopel made more of an impact over Eager, Burish, Frasier, Boynton...hell Kopecky played as well as Brouwer.

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05-31-2012, 07:08 PM
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Kopecky and Sopel made more of an impact over Eager, Burish, Frasier, Boynton...hell Kopecky played as well as Brouwer.
Kopecky was a scratch leading up to the SCF only got back into the line-up when Ladd wrecked his shoulder.

As I already said with Sopel, if he wasn't there, they could have used his 2.33M caphit on a better all-round Dman.

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05-31-2012, 08:07 PM
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Kopecks signed because Hossa signed and Hossa signed because Tallon was halfway out the door.

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05-31-2012, 08:46 PM
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Kopecky and Sopel made more of an impact over Eager, Burish, Frasier, Boynton...hell Kopecky played as well as Brouwer.
Brouwer had a handful of OK games, and one good one..good comparison!

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05-31-2012, 10:13 PM
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Brouwer had a handful of OK games, and one good one..good comparison!
and?

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05-31-2012, 10:15 PM
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Why is this thread still going? The content has nothing to do with the title.

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06-01-2012, 03:49 AM
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Both the teams I mentioned have less "talent" than Chicago but significantly better systems and much more structure in the way they play the game, all over the ice. They also have better goaltending, especially in LA.. but Chicago's already proven to themselves that they can win with average goaltending if they play a commited defensive game.

Besides, your logic doesn't allow for teams like LA and New Jersey to win Cups, or even get to the SCF, despite goaltending/systems. They weren't the best teams in their conferences, they were 6th seed and 8th seeds. 6th seeds and 8th seeds can't compete for the Cup, obviously.
Funny how that works. All the "super smart" and vocal fans who were *****ing and whining for Lombardi to get fired on the Kings THIS YEAR. On their board it was the same fans whining for the sake of whining and ripping Lombardi a new *******. Gee, they look pretty foolish now I bet.

Reality is with the cap and post lockout hockey... teams just don't have as big of an edge as they used to. Parity, parity, parity. No more dynasties. But, what you can do is make the playoffs every year and give yourself a chance to win the Stanley Cup. You won't win it back to back. You'll probably have some struggles, but when the time is right, you can make your moves and really try and get that Cup(see LA with Richards trade and then Carter trade).

Stan has us set up to compete for the Cup for a long time. Maybe this offseason we are able to pull of our "Richards trade". This team is 1-4 players away from winning the Stanley Cup. Unfortunately many idiotic fans don't like to look at the big picture and really give this site a bad name. The whole "what have you done for me lately" crowd that just don't get it. The trade Kane, trade Malkin, trade Kovalchuk, trade whoever is struggling at this moment guy that ends up looking like an idiot. Seriously, I remember how many said Kovalchuk sucks, what a terrible contract, ect.... yeah, looks real bad leading the NHL in points for playoffs. Same with Malkin. "His knee is blown, he isn't in the big 3, he scored 37 points, he isn't elite"... yeah, now he looks like the best player in the NHL.

The sky is falling people are hard to deal with sometimes. Especially when they make threads about signing a 36 year old who was absolutely brutal the 2nd half of the season to a 3 mil contract. And then call the GM an idiot. I mean come on. Anyone who actually watches around the league would know this. He had 30 points in the 1st 37 games then 16 points in the last 45 games. Sounds like exactly the guy we want! Will be dead by the time the playoffs roll around.

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