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Old
05-31-2012, 02:34 PM
  #26
inthewings
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From a neutral party, Hawks get bent over here.

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Old
05-31-2012, 02:42 PM
  #27
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Major overpayment from Chicago's end here. And I'm saying this as a big fan of P.K. Subban.

Not saying the Habs would do it, but the Blackhawks certainly wouldn't. At least I hope not.

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Old
05-31-2012, 02:47 PM
  #28
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why do the Hawks add to Kane & Hjalmarsson? No reason for the Hawks to consider this.

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Old
05-31-2012, 02:51 PM
  #29
Drydenwasthebest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Well I cant comment on his reasoning but as a Hawk fan who doesn't like Subban here would be my reasons

-Lazy and disintrested at times 100% FALSE
-Prone to defensive gaffe's that hurt team True, but they are decreasing
-Takes some real terrible penalties Also true, also decreasing AND get balanced by the significant number of penalties he draws as well!.

-Is honestly overated ,, Accomplish something before acting like a star

The bolded apply to Kane as well but at least I konw Kane has history of clutch play and playing key part of a great team

Haven't seen anything from Subban that makes me think "This guy is elite talent" like I have seen from Kane
Subban has never been lazy or disinterested. I have no clue where that came from, but it is 100% false.

Subban has not ONLY put up significant points in both of his 1st two seasons, he is also one of only 13 defencemen in the entire league to put up over 30 points, over 100 hits, over 100 blocked shots, AND lead his team in ice time while playing PP, PK, and a shut down role in addition to his ability to produce points. He is not over rated by people who have watched him play. The reality is that he only improved after Christmas, as well.

As to the OP, I can understand Hawks fans thinking it is not enough, but the reality is that Habs fans would be more likely to say "no". Kane is not enough of a distinct need for our team that he is worth Subban and Plekanec. Haljmarsson and the 1st do not compensate us significantly for what we lose in swapping Kane for Plekanec and Subban. McNeil is of no interest to us. He was on our head scout's DND list and was passed over for Beaulieu even though we DID need a big center and could have taken McNeil. I like McNeil from what I have seen of the kid, and think he is pretty good, but if Timmins passed on him, I would not think he would be a significant part of a trade involving Subban and Plekanec.

The VALUE of the trade is close, even while both sides decry it, but the Habs would say "no" because we need Subban more than we need the difference between Kane and Plekanec.


Last edited by Drydenwasthebest: 05-31-2012 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Missed something.
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Old
05-31-2012, 02:54 PM
  #30
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I like Subban and would welcome him to the Blackhawks, but to give up Kane, Hammer+ Is just way too much.

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Old
05-31-2012, 03:24 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Well I cant comment on his reasoning but as a Hawk fan who doesn't like Subban here would be my reasons

-Lazy and disintrested at times
-Prone to defensive gaffe's that hurt team
-Takes some real terrible penalties

-Is honestly overated ,, Accomplish something before acting like a star

The bolded apply to Kane as well but at least I konw Kane has history of clutch play and playing key part of a great team

Haven't seen anything from Subban that makes me think "This guy is elite talent" like I have seen from Kane
Not sure how many times you've watched Subban play but lazy and disinterested, really? This is a player that never wants to get off the ice and always gives 110%

He has gotten a lot better in his defensive zone and becoming an all around defenseman instead of simply being an offensive one.

The penalty part is true, he does take stupid penalties at some crucial times, but like Patrick Kane, he has some growing up to do.

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Old
05-31-2012, 03:46 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
I like Subban and would welcome him to the Blackhawks, but to give up Kane, Hammer+ Is just way too much.
You kind of overlooked this little player called Plekanec in the OP. You aren't giving up Kane, Hammer+ for Subban alone. I am not saying the OP is worth it, but come on, don't reduce the OP to Kane, Hammer + for Subban like that.

Heck, I have had Hawks fans offer McNeil, Hammer, and 2012 1st just for Plekanec! That means we are looking at a Kane for Subban swap, if we use previous threads as examples. Again, not saying either team does it, but please don't ignore a significant part of the deal to make the trade sound worse for Chicago than it actually is.

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Old
05-31-2012, 05:45 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
To Chicago
P.K Subban
Thomas Plekanec

To Montreal
Patrick Kane
Niklas Hjalmarsson
Mark McNeill
1st 2012
Never in 100 years from a Habs POV. Don't want Kane anywhere close to the Montreal night life! Protect our children!

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Old
05-31-2012, 07:27 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Because hes a disrepectful scum bag who dives like he should be playing for the Canucks.

I hate players like Subban.
I love P.K on the Habs.

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Old
05-31-2012, 07:34 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
You kind of overlooked this little player called Plekanec in the OP. You aren't giving up Kane, Hammer+ for Subban alone. I am not saying the OP is worth it, but come on, don't reduce the OP to Kane, Hammer + for Subban like that.

Heck, I have had Hawks fans offer McNeil, Hammer, and 2012 1st just for Plekanec! That means we are looking at a Kane for Subban swap, if we use previous threads as examples. Again, not saying either team does it, but please don't ignore a significant part of the deal to make the trade sound worse for Chicago than it actually is.
Kane >> Pleckanec
Hammer + McNeill + 18th overall > Subban

It's just an awful deal for Chicago. He wasn't reducing the trade down to Kane and Hammer + for Subban.. but Subban is the potential "star" player you're getting back. Plekanec is a good 2nd line centre.

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Old
05-31-2012, 07:40 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Kane >> Pleckanec
Hammer + McNeill + 18th overall > Subban

It's just an awful deal for Chicago. He wasn't reducing the trade down to Kane and Hammer + for Subban.. but Subban is the potential "star" player you're getting back. Plekanec is a good 2nd line centre.
Yes, Kane is more valuable than Plekanec.

No, Hjalmarsson, McNeil and the 18 th are not enough to get Subban.

By the way, Plekanec is far more than just a "good" 2nd line center.

Please, keep Kane, we will keep Subban, and let's simply work a deal around Plekanec for the 18th, Jimmy Hayes and Saad. Keep it simple.

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Old
05-31-2012, 07:49 PM
  #37
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as a Habs fan, I'd do this any day of the week

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Old
05-31-2012, 08:14 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Yes, Kane is more valuable than Plekanec.

No, Hjalmarsson, McNeil and the 18 th are not enough to get Subban.

By the way, Plekanec is far more than just a "good" 2nd line center.

Please, keep Kane, we will keep Subban, and let's simply work a deal around Plekanec for the 18th, Jimmy Hayes and Saad. Keep it simple.
Ah, haha.. you think the Hawks would move Saad and a 1st round pick for Plekanec? Really?

The difference between Hjalmarsson and Subban is not two 1st round picks. Sorry.

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Old
05-31-2012, 08:25 PM
  #39
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This is an overpayment by the Blackhawks.

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Old
05-31-2012, 08:33 PM
  #40
Drydenwasthebest
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Ah, haha.. you think the Hawks would move Saad and a 1st round pick for Plekanec? Really?

The difference between Hjalmarsson and Subban is not two 1st round picks. Sorry.
Actually, I said Plekanec for Saad, the 1st and Jimmy Hayes. I know you guys are high on Saad, and I do not blame you. However, as other Hawks fans have agreed, Plekanec on the Hawks would make you Cup favourites, especially if you put him with Hossa and Kane!! Plekanec would be such an amazing complementary player for Hossa and Kane. Sigh...I wish WE could get Hossa and Kane on the Habs to team with Plekanec as our 1st line!! Quality needs quality, and the reality is that Plekanec is serious quality while Saad, the Pick and Hayes are all POTENTIAL quality. I think it is easy to see that Plekanec would help your team far more next year with Hossa than Saad would.

So, yes, I do think that is what Plekanec is worth (although I could see a late 2nd or a an early 3rd round pick going the other way if pushed.

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Old
05-31-2012, 08:41 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Never in 100 years from a Habs POV. Don't want Kane anywhere close to the Montreal night life! Protect our children!
And your cab drivers! But, you got a big case of homerism going on there.

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Old
05-31-2012, 10:00 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Leafer97 View Post
And your cab drivers! But, you got a big case of homerism going on there.
Call it homerism, I call it wanting professionals and not **** disturbers out of the rink. There's a reason why Hawks' fans are trying to unload him in spite of his skills...

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Old
06-01-2012, 12:00 AM
  #43
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Call it homerism, I call it wanting professionals and not **** disturbers out of the rink. There's a reason why Hawks' fans are trying to unload him in spite of his skills...
Can you show me the Hawks fans in this thread or other trade proposals that are trying to unload him? I haven't seen more than a handful. Most Hawks' fans are of the opinion that things have been blown out of proportion due to the Deadspin article and we wouldn't want Kane traded barring a major overpayment.

Almost all Kane trade proposals have been from opposing fans trying to get Kane at dollar for pennies rate.

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Old
06-01-2012, 12:07 AM
  #44
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Because hes a disrepectful scum bag who dives like he should be playing for the Canucks.

I hate players like Subban.
You must despise Kane then.

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Old
06-01-2012, 01:05 AM
  #45
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ya ya, I'll pass. Habs need a big center, all habs do is give up their #1B center and #1 D for an elite winger. Kane is great but this solves what exactly? Desharnais, Eller as our top 6 centers and after that? Engqvist? I won't even think of 4th line. Terrible.

I get it, overpayment by hawks, i agree with that but why does montreal do this?

Anyway, as for subban is this and that...enjoy the random pointless arguments. I could easily as reference kane choking a girl. But wait, it was said to be untrue? Who cares, I need to cling onto the media's word, right?

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Old
06-01-2012, 07:57 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by RedBaronIndian View Post
Can you show me the Hawks fans in this thread or other trade proposals that are trying to unload him? I haven't seen more than a handful.
Why do I need to show them to you if you've seen them?

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Old
06-01-2012, 08:07 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
From a neutral party, Hawks get bent over here.
From a biased party (Habs), Hawks get bent over. Subban has not proven enough to offset the difference of everything else involved. I say cut out the fat and just stick to Plekanec going to Chicago for someone like Saad.

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Old
06-01-2012, 08:36 AM
  #48
Stories
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Holy overpayment Batman! Chicago politely says no thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Brutal for Chicago.
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Awful for Chicago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
From a neutral party, Hawks get bent over here.
Yep.

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Old
06-01-2012, 09:11 AM
  #49
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This is how i view the trade. No need to flame. As i am a neutral party. Seeing now i would say that it is 1 first round pick to many. Remove chi 1st and id say its perfect value.

Chicago needs a defense man and a quality #2 c. Plekanec IMO on a good team is easily a 1B center. He plays every single situation and is not a 1 trick pony. Fantastic on the PK, good on the PP and all around a good 2 way center.

Patrick Kane is getting himself into hot water. Hes slowly declining in overall play and is basically a 1 trick pony. Pure offense. He may benefit from playing in a Canadian market (this may mean nothing). Montreal may be in limbo next season, unsure if they want to rebuild or re-tool. By getting McNeil it will replace the #2c in Plekanec on a long term.

Subban is the best player in the deal IMO because he fills the most important role. As a leaf fan, i am well aware that you do not build a team around a winger. A top 2 defense man is much more important.

Montreal is sitting on the #3 pick this year and could very well replace Subban or draft a #1c. With next years draft looking extremely top heavy it may be a wise move to spend the year building some prospects and a young core to revamp the face of the organization. Ultimately setting up another lottery pick.

This trade makes up for the very little offense being taken away from Chicago in Plekanek's intangibles and Subban's defensive composure, physicality and production. Chicago moves back into a top contender IMO, and Montreal sets them self up with a very talented winger and puts them in a great position to have a very rapid rebuild/ re-tool. Montreal has Ellis, Tinordi, Bealieu waiting to crack the line-up, the loss of Subban may (emphasize may) not hurt the team as much as perceived.

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Old
06-01-2012, 09:54 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
This is how i view the trade. No need to flame. As i am a neutral party. Seeing now i would say that it is 1 first round pick to many. Remove chi 1st and id say its perfect value.

Chicago needs a defense man and a quality #2 c. Plekanec IMO on a good team is easily a 1B center. He plays every single situation and is not a 1 trick pony. Fantastic on the PK, good on the PP and all around a good 2 way center.

Patrick Kane is getting himself into hot water. Hes slowly declining in overall play and is basically a 1 trick pony. Pure offense. He may benefit from playing in a Canadian market (this may mean nothing). Montreal may be in limbo next season, unsure if they want to rebuild or re-tool. By getting McNeil it will replace the #2c in Plekanec on a long term.

Subban is the best player in the deal IMO because he fills the most important role. As a leaf fan, i am well aware that you do not build a team around a winger. A top 2 defense man is much more important.

Montreal is sitting on the #3 pick this year and could very well replace Subban or draft a #1c. With next years draft looking extremely top heavy it may be a wise move to spend the year building some prospects and a young core to revamp the face of the organization. Ultimately setting up another lottery pick.

This trade makes up for the very little offense being taken away from Chicago in Plekanek's intangibles and Subban's defensive composure, physicality and production. Chicago moves back into a top contender IMO, and Montreal sets them self up with a very talented winger and puts them in a great position to have a very rapid rebuild/ re-tool. Montreal has Ellis, Tinordi, Bealieu waiting to crack the line-up, the loss of Subban may (emphasize may) not hurt the team as much as perceived.
You're ignoring one fundamental: Kane is a party animal. Can you imagine him in Montreal? Forget about it.

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