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GDT: Nashville @ Phoenix 3/28 9:00 EST

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Old
03-29-2006, 12:40 AM
  #26
dulzhok
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The good news is that Anaheim, SJ, and Edmonton all lost.

Bad news is that Colorado won, and we are 4 points out of 5th place.

Hopefully we can get a W vs Detroit on Thursday to set the tone for the home stretch. In theory, it's downhill from there, with STL, CBJ, CHI, STL, CHI, STL our next 6 games. Hopefully after that, we will have clinched 4th place, and are able to rest some people before the playoffs.

On the flipdside... another couple losses and we could be surprising close to 8th place.

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03-29-2006, 12:51 AM
  #27
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Something that caught my attention in a negative way was when Mason said during his third period interview that the team was "playing for 4th place". I know that it is highly unprobable that we will catch Detroit for first overall in the Central and/or the West, but...couldn't he have phrased that a little better? I would have preferred a comment more along the lines of "We're battling hard for every point. We realize how close a race it is to make the playoffs this year and with a couple losses we know that we could be looking at being out of the playoffs altogether. We have to take control of our own destiny right now and capitalize on the opportunities to pickup points in the standings every night."

The comment made it just seem like the Predators lacked desperation. Which was a theme far too evident in the play on the ice tonight.

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03-29-2006, 03:44 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok
The good news is that Anaheim, SJ, and Edmonton all lost.

Bad news is that Colorado won, and we are 4 points out of 5th place.
Actually that's not exactly true.

With Colorado's win they take over first place in the NW division with 88 points. Therefore they move into third place and Calgary falls to fifth place with 86 points.

So, for the time being, and by a stroke of luck, we remain 6 points ahead of the 5th place team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do we have to have these streaks? Can't we just correct our mistakes from the first loss and then get back to winning? It's like we lose one, and all our bad habits come roaring back.

I was surprised we started Vokoun. I thought Mason, too to rest Vokoun for Thursday. We know we're going to give up a ton of shots to det.

PP looked bad all night, Nash alone got more chances on our PP's than I think we did total. But Cujo made some good saves, too. Game changing saves apparently.

Each period they came out fast and firing but never sustained it for longer than about 2 minutes.

Shea Weber, he has had at least one penalty in every game but 2 since he has been recalled, about 13 or so games. He's got to fix that. (they all do really)

We seemed to fix the penalty probs after the first period (except for that one call that was total BS), but then went the other way and allowed another SH goal. Special teams just let us down all over tonight.

How many times are we going to give up a lead? How many times this season have we given up 2 goal leads? When we get any kind of lead it seems like we just relax and then have no drive to really put our foot down and just finish the other team. I don't like to rely on the whole let the other team score first for us to wake up and come storming back to get a win.

But after all that:
-We come home where we play well.
-We never have to leave the central time zone again for the rest of the season.
-All games are at 7pm CST (except @ Chicago 7:30).
-10 games left in the season. No reason we can't get at least 7 wins for 106 pts, which is around what some were projecting for us back in Jan./Feb anyways.

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Old
03-29-2006, 06:38 AM
  #29
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Well, that's two straight bad games against pretty mediocre hockey clubs in L.A. and Phoenix and 4 bad perfomances from Vokoun in 5 games. I was disappointed that Trotz went with Vokoun though in no way shocked. I thought this was a great chance to give Mason a shot. Vokoun has played terrible and looked like he could use the rest, it was phoenix, the last game on a road trip, and we have Detroit in two days. If he insists on forcefeeding Vokoun starts so that he can play his way out of this slump, we very well could be playing our way out of the playoffs. I'm just not as confident it's a slump as much as I think he's just exhausted. I think Trotz might be too close to Vokoun to make that determination. He'll go right up to him and ask him and Vokoun will ask for the start and say he's fine, lying through his teeth. And Trotz will ignore the evidence and believe him.

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03-29-2006, 09:30 AM
  #30
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Put the $%#@#$% puck on the ^%$#$%%^ net! It's that simple. Stay out of the ^%$@#$% box! Instead of making heads roll, Trotz slams Darcy who did not play last night! Fine $%#% coach we've got.

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Old
03-29-2006, 09:43 AM
  #31
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Our defense just isn't getting it done. I expected a game where we were off a little bit with so many guys returning to the lineup for the first time tonight, but it was our mainstays that were having problems. Terrible giveaway by Hamhuis after we had just scored...Kimmo was out of place and lazy all night. We need to gain some confidence on the road. There is no reason for us to be so polarized in the way we play in other venues.

Kariya is quietly on fire right now.

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Old
03-29-2006, 09:51 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Our defense just isn't getting it done. I expected a game where we were off a little bit with so many guys returning to the lineup for the first time tonight, but it was our mainstays that were having problems. Terrible giveaway by Hamhuis after we had just scored...Kimmo was out of place and lazy all night. We need to gain some confidence on the road. There is no reason for us to be so polarized in the way we play in other venues.

Kariya is quietly on fire right now.

After we acquired Witt, trig made the observation that when we play a physical game, we take less penalties...common sense dictates it, when you look at the penalties we take. We're getting cycled all over again, and as a result, you're seeing more hooking, holding and interference penalties. This ALL stems from the fact that we're back to two bad old habits...trying to give the forward a bit of room and wait for him to make the first move so as to break up the pass or poke check...and just plain playing the puck rather than the body. For a time, we had gotten a little better in that regard. We were breaking up the cycle by taking the man and having someone there to back up and pick up the puck. The result was far less penalties and about 10-15 fewer shots per game. For whatever reason, we've regressed back, and we're getting hemmed again, which means we can only chip the puck out and wait for them to come again, meanwhile playing for that occasional homerun pass or two on one, and that we often get into a desperate position while waiting for a man to make his move, and someone has to hook him down to keep him from going right to the net...and we take the penalty.

It's frustrating, but we saw it early in the year and we're seeing it again.

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Old
03-29-2006, 09:56 AM
  #33
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It's not our defense. It's our forwards. Last night twice I watched a forward waiting for the puck to come around the boards instead of skating to it. Of course, the coyotes didn't wait, they went and got the puck. I also noticed more than once, a few of our forwards breaking up ice before the defensemen actually had control of the puck, all this leads to easy cycling and point shots from the yotes. Our forwards did decent for a few games staying lower in the defensive zone, now it seems we're all trying to be the hero goal scoring again. Side note, Tootoo was one of the worst doing this last night. Guess that's why he's not hitting as much too, he's a goal scorer now, lol.

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Old
03-29-2006, 04:46 PM
  #34
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exceptionally painful to watch...

first a few general observations;

...on the positive side, we had lost before 10:30, so in theory i got to bed at a decent hour. unfortunately this benefit was totally counteracted by the fact i lay there and tossed and turned and couldn't get to sleep for hours anyway.
...all this talk and argument about "why are we so streaky, yada,yada,yada". we're not really streaky at all. we simply are a great home hockey team, and an average to poor road hockey team. when we go on the road we lose games, and 'surprise' we get on losing streaks accordingly and everybody talks about how we stink. when we come home, we win, and start winning streaks and everybody is talking about how great we are. over and over and over. for god's sake we're 27-6-1 at home, easily the best record in the west... but we're a losing team on the road at 15-16-7. we're conisistent, not streaky. the problem is we're consistently bad on the road.

...why? why are we a bad team on the road?... the 64 thousand dollar question of course. one reason is that we have weaknesses that can be exploited when a coach has last change opportunity against us, and can get the matchups they want against us line wise. another is that teams and coaches believe you play road games differently than home games. the old theory is on the road, you go out and play aggressive early, get the first goal, which takes the crowd out of it, then you play more passively and counterattack off any mistakes the home team makes trying to catch up... of course, this is what we do time and time again. we score the first goal many many times on the road, then sit back and try to do this very thing. the problem is, is our team stinks when we try to play this way. when teams put pressure on us, what do we do? well then we take penalties. then boom the next thing you know when it was 1-0 us in the first, it becomes 2-1 them by the second period. we have to change our entire road approach to how we play the game. the elite teams in this league (det,ott,car,dal) are great road teams... that's what seperates them from us.

...the one reputation we have around the league is that we're an average team, that has vokoun. hard to argue with that assessment honestly. right now, when we win a road game, it's always because vokoun stood on his head and stole us a win.

as to the game last night specifically, a few observations;

...i knew i would wake up this morning read the papar and see everyone saying "well no wonder we lost, it's tough trying to work in 4 guys just back at one time".. sure enough, that's what we see.
...to be honest, perreault and walker were liabilities out there last night, nothing productive from either (which was pretty much what anyone should have expected after this much time off)
...our powerplay was ...well beyond pitiful.. unbelievably we gave up more shorthanded shots (7) than we got powerplay shots (6) in our 9 minutes of powerplay time.. this happens far,far too often in our pp scheme. and it's simply unacceptable. drastic changes need to be made on the pp. first step is we have to protent the puck better even if it means we score less powerplay goals ourselves. 12 shorthanded goals allowed this year? we give up more shorthanded shots than any other top 15 team. and the sorthanded shots we give up are normally 2 on 1's. that's why vokoun's save percentage against shorthanded shots is so pitiful.
...even strength we are a good team. vokoun is a brick wall even strength. a .941 save % even strength, best in the league. while we're on the pk, vokoun's save % drops to only a .874 save %. while shorthanded vokoun's save % is a .884. huge differences here.
...so many factors going wrong as to why we're giving up so many shots, that it's almost impossible to know where to start critisizing. poor forechecking, poor backchecking, slow centers, too much speed allowed thru the neutral zone, poor clears, too many neutral zone turnovers, lack of enough physical play by some of the blueliners, poor breakouts passes, forwards not winning battles along the halfboards, centers being beaten in deep, lack of discipline, poor pk play, lack of any puck possession game offensively to keep the puck away from them... you name it, and it's going wrong when we get in one of these road spells.
...who do you blame for taking too many penalties? 8 minors last night... by 8 differenet players.. it's a team disease.
... the ONLY effective offensive line we had all night was kariya-sillinger-tootoo. sillinger gets more shots than any other pred, unfortunately he misses more chances than any other pred, but you have to take that with the ability to get them to begin with.
..hamhuis will have a long great career. probably won't ever have any worse turnover than the one he fell down on. throw in the one where he couldn't find it in his skates to clear it on the 5 on 3 and it made for a rough defensive night.
...sillinger and timonen getting caught pinching in on the shorthanded goal was the backbreaker of course... but when you're playing 4 forwards on the pp those things are going to happen too often.


hard to not be overly critical after these last three games. in reality nothing has changed. we still have our own fate in our own hands these last 10 games. we should still finish 4th, barring a total collapse that i don't see because of our schedule and all these home games left against weak teams. keep an even keel as we wind down, this is exactly the type of hockey we've played all year, don't know why anyone would expect any different not the last few games. we still have another winning streak left in us that will make everyone feel better about the team again.

keep it all in perspective though, we're not near as bad as these last three games have made us look, but we're also not near as good as some think we are. but this is still a good hockey team, and things will look better

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Old
03-29-2006, 06:01 PM
  #35
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you are right P303...the penalties and lack of discipline is a team disease....nobody is accountable to eachother.....I like what Lavoulette did with the Canes....anything over 3 penalties is of the hooking, obstruction, tripping variety is unacceptable and the whole team has to skate laps next time on the ice for each one over three and the culprits have to skate an extra couple...this was instituted the first day of training camp and has made the team accountable to eachother....great idea in my mind....now nobody is accountable to eachother and the coaches are talking about it until they are blue in the face and nobody is listening....it only changed with the "team meeting" and the few games afterward...now its back as usual and the correlation is clear.....take over 5 lazy penalties and Vokoun faces 40+ shots...plain and simple

I ran some quick numbers just on March's games.....we are 8W [1SO, 1OT incl] and 6L.
I termed "Lazy penalties" as hooking, tripping, interference, holding the stick, and diving.

I found that we averaged in our wins...4.8 "lazy penalites" and 31.5 shots against in our 8 Wins........and 6.3 'lazy penalties" and 40.0 shots against in our 6 Losses.

I would be interested to see if those numbers stratify even further when all the season games are analyzed, but didn't have the time.

It is also interesting that after the players "come to Jesus" meeting their "lazy penalties" have tracked---2....3....5....6....5....8.....4.....3....5....9.. ...8.
Maybe we need another "come to Jesus" session.....but the problem is....they shouldn't have to....


Also....I think we are seeing that Brendan Witt is not the answer to our problems as most of us guessed would be the case before the trade, but after his first 5 games I was starting to really wonder if he may have been the missing ingredient.....reality has come crashing down....

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03-29-2006, 06:13 PM
  #36
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Well, the thing is, our offense started to really click/forecheck again. Now, the forwards are starting to backtrack again. Legwand makes the line he plays on much more effective....and without him in the lineup, it clearly hurts our offense. The forechecking seems to be that much more effective with his speed at center rather than a slower/less skilled stickhandler at center.

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03-29-2006, 07:46 PM
  #37
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our PP is especially frustrating, right now. more often than not, it's giving up more and better chances than it generates, and a lot of this traces to how close to the boards the pointmen play, which is futile anyway, because Timonen has lost all ability to stop a puck that's coming up the boards. the penalty killers are getting the entire scope of the ice to clear, and no one closes in the blue line to hold it in(surprisingly, weber and hamhuis are better at this than any of the supposed 'specialists'). When the PK gets some time to do so(often), they're able to send a guy streaking up the ice, and Timonen and whomever has to come off the wall to give chase, but by then the headstart is pretty substantial, and we're looking at a shorthanded breakaway. Watch ANY team we play, lately...watch how they hold the blueline, and then compare it to us. We're usually at the 1 minute mark before we can get some semblance of being setup, and then it gets broken right back up. More often than not, we're not even getting a shot on the power play.

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03-29-2006, 07:52 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
our PP is especially frustrating, right now. more often than not, it's giving up more and better chances than it generates, and a lot of this traces to how close to the boards the pointmen play, which is futile anyway, because Timonen has lost all ability to stop a puck that's coming up the boards. the penalty killers are getting the entire scope of the ice to clear, and no one closes in the blue line to hold it in(surprisingly, weber and hamhuis are better at this than any of the supposed 'specialists'). When the PK gets some time to do so(often), they're able to send a guy streaking up the ice, and Timonen and whomever has to come off the wall to give chase, but by then the headstart is pretty substantial, and we're looking at a shorthanded breakaway. Watch ANY team we play, lately...watch how they hold the blueline, and then compare it to us. We're usually at the 1 minute mark before we can get some semblance of being setup, and then it gets broken right back up. More often than not, we're not even getting a shot on the power play.
This goes without saying. I have been so disappointed in Kimmo this year, that really, I think he is very replaceable. I would do without his offense for somone that can play reliable defense. To be blunt, his offensive contributions this year look a lot better than they really are. He is playing at the level Zidlicky played at as a rookie, except he is worse offensively. I don't see him being solid defensively at all, and his shot from the point is quite wimpy. He hasn't been as one dimensional as Andy _elmore, and he still is a top 4 defensemen. However, he is far from the no. 1/2 that he was for us in 04 when we signed him to this extension.

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Old
03-29-2006, 07:59 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Now, the forwards are starting to backtrack again. Legwand makes the line he plays on much more effective....and without him in the lineup, it clearly hurts our offense.
Well, I disagree. We have a very sizeable pool to compare our offense's production with and without Legwand...

1) in games legwand has played (37) we are averaging 3.15 goals offensively
2) in games he has missed (34) we are averaging 3.20 goals offensively

What more do you need to know?

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03-29-2006, 07:59 PM
  #40
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I think those few extra feet from the blue line have basically rendered his PP game visibly mediocre. it's amazing how such a little change can have such an effect, but it's killed his once-deadly point shot, and it's made him clueless on what to do as far as holding the puck in.

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Old
03-29-2006, 09:03 PM
  #41
Enoch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok
Well, I disagree. We have a very sizeable pool to compare our offense's production with and without Legwand...

1) in games legwand has played (37) we are averaging 3.15 goals offensively
2) in games he has missed (34) we are averaging 3.20 goals offensively

What more do you need to know?
That does not tell the whole story and you know it. It is undeniable that Legwand is superior in many of the elements that Trotz's game plan emphasizes. That we have played better in the games he has been in the lineup is not necessarily indicated by our goals for, but also in our goals against. I'm not arguing that without him we are garbage, suck, etc. I am arguing that part of the reason our offense looks so flat is because we are taking out one of the fastest players on the team, who is clearly faster than any of the other centers we have.....we are also eliminating the best stickhandler/defensive minded center that we have on the team.....and all of these things are important to our offense. I would argue that our puck possession time is much higher with Legwand in the lineup than when he is not, and I'm sure you realize this to.

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03-30-2006, 12:39 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
That does not tell the whole story and you know it.
Exactly, I agree with you.

I was attempting to be facetious, based on a previous thread.

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