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Old
06-01-2012, 10:49 AM
  #76
daveleaf
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Only in Leaf land would the absurdity of suggesting and AHL d-man that has played a few games if any in the NHL is better than your fifth over all pic that has played three + seasons and had to deal with a coach and a coaching system that leaves there d-man out on an island. Only in Leaf land. On any other team they would be praising the development of this player because they wouldn't have subjected him to Ron Wilson but here it is ok to ship him out for a AHL d-man!!

Honestly people.......give your head a shake!!

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06-01-2012, 10:49 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
holzer over schenn?

yes please.
I'd like both to be honest.

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06-01-2012, 10:54 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Rare Jewel View Post
Who gives a **** about hits if he's consistently a minus player who can barely skate?

This isn't the clutch and grab NHL anymore, Defending is done by positioning, speed and puck movement. Look at Vancouver's defense, Show me a defensemen there who is slow and can't make at very least a decent first pass? Alberts may be the only one.


You're making a big fuss out of something any plug with a body temperature of 98 degrees can do and looking right over some of the glaring problems he has.
A consistent minus player eh? Kinda like every single Leaf defensemen last year. Besides that he's been a minus player for two other years and one was when he was an 18 year old. The other two seasons he was a plus player. He also scored more points than Gunnarsson and only 8 points less than Gardiner while playing 5 minutes a game less than both of them. He also scored more points than Holzer in the AHL. Everyone is desperately trying to sign Schultz when him and schenn are the same age!! If Schenn was a UFA right now everyone would be after him. He was signed for 5 years last year for a reason and everyone was happy about it. Let's give him one more season under Carlyle before we make a big mistake and ship him out for nothing.

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06-01-2012, 11:00 AM
  #79
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I'd rather trade Gunner and replace him with Holzer. Schenn is the real deal, a vital part of this teams future and dare I say Stanley Cup run.

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06-01-2012, 11:02 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Only in Leaf land would the absurdity of suggesting and AHL d-man that has played a few games if any in the NHL is better than your fifth over all pic that has played three + seasons and had to deal with a coach and a coaching system that leaves there d-man out on an island. Only in Leaf land. On any other team they would be praising the development of this player because they wouldn't have subjected him to Ron Wilson but here it is ok to ship him out for a AHL d-man!!

Honestly people.......give your head a shake!!
Then I guess we can discount players success like kadri/frattin's in the AHL because it is such a garbage league?

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06-01-2012, 11:11 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by G51 K81 View Post
Then I guess we can discount players success like kadri/frattin's in the AHL because it is such a garbage league?
It's not a garbage league but you are comparing your fifth round draft pic that has played the last number of years under a garbage system and has not done all that bad to Holzher? C'mon. This is not Kadri or Frattin. If you want to make the case of Holzher over Komisarek than I'm all for it but to throw our Schenn for Holzher??? Ridiculous.

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06-01-2012, 11:12 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by tpc77 View Post
LOL

Yes, one is a good Dman in the AHL, so he should replace the 22 year old who has shown way higher potential in the NHL.

While we are at it, who needs a number 1 C? Let's just have Dupuis replace all of our C's and move to the top of the depth chart.... lol

I have a strong feeling Schenn will be much better next year, and by the time he has played two more NHL seasons and he is 24, he will be far better than Holzer (24) looking good in the AHL.

Not that I don't think Holzer should get a shot in the near future, it's just foolish to be thinking he should replace our NHL dmen because of it. Especially someone with Luke's potential.
LOL.

Is that "I have a feeling" the same thing as "Mothers' Intuition"? Give me a break!

You can't just write off every success in the AHL to a "means nothing". All sorts of great players in the NHL had success in the AHL.

Here's the thing about Schenn: he's been a key part of a team that sucks the big one. So many of his gaffs have resulted in Leaf losses. He's extremely inconsistent, slow, and I can't remember the last time he did something brilliant (defending or otherwise) to help his team win. Holzer is not an unknown entity. He should have been playing for the Leafs last year. I don't know why he wasn't playing with the big club, but he should have. Right now most fans are tired of Schenn's BS. For a 5th overall pick and a so-called defensive defenseman he STILL can't seem to figure it out.

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06-01-2012, 11:14 AM
  #83
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Unproven commodity VS struggling young NHLer. Yup, this is the off season...

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06-01-2012, 11:19 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
LOL.

Is that "I have a feeling" the same thing as "Mothers' Intuition"? Give me a break!

You can't just write off every success in the AHL to a "means nothing". All sorts of great players in the NHL had success in the AHL.

Here's the thing about Schenn: he's been a key part of a team that sucks the big one. So many of his gaffs have resulted in Leaf losses. He's extremely inconsistent, slow, and I can't remember the last time he did something brilliant (defending or otherwise) to help his team win. Holzer is not an unknown entity. He should have been playing for the Leafs last year. I don't know why he wasn't playing with the big club, but he should have. Right now most fans are tired of Schenn's BS. For a 5th overall pick and a so-called defensive defenseman he STILL can't seem to figure it out.
Yea, what the heck is wrong with Schenn?

18-21 year old dmen are supposed to be lead the way for an NHL, I forgot....

The Leafs issues as a team are far from being Schenn's fault.

Had the team not blown up for 20 games, no one would be having these feelings towards most of our players.

The Leafs aren't actually as bad as many think....

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06-01-2012, 11:20 AM
  #85
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In theory maybe, but I don't like saying that a player who has never played a game in the NHL is better than Schenn. Lets see Holzer play with the big boys.

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06-01-2012, 11:25 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by tpc77 View Post
Yea, what the heck is wrong with Schenn?

18-21 year old dmen are supposed to be lead the way for an NHL, I forgot....

The Leafs issues as a team are far from being Schenn's fault.

Had the team not blown up for 20 games, no one would be having these feelings towards most of our players.

The Leafs aren't actually as bad as many think....
No. I would still label him below average/inconsistent. I would say that he has struggled for the good majority of his career. He was a healthy scratch many times in his short career.

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06-01-2012, 11:33 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
No. I would still label him below average/inconsistent. I would say that he has struggled for the good majority of his career. He was a healthy scratch many times in his short career.
There's no doubt about the fact he has struggled in his career.

However, he is 22, which is very young for Dmen in this league. Look at many other top NHL Dmen who are now 25-35, many didn't even get into the league until they were 22-23.

I just don't get why everyone complains about wanting to draft and develop a young core for the eventual run at a SC, but whenever a young player struggles, which most do at some point, they throw them under the bus?

It's also pretty clear he and Wilson did not have a good relationship and Ron seems to have beat the confidence right out of Schenn.

I want to see a fresh start with a new coach and an offseason where he hopefully cuts a few pounds before sending him off as a 22 year old.

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06-01-2012, 11:43 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
It's not a garbage league but you are comparing your fifth round draft pic that has played the last number of years under a garbage system and has not done all that bad to Holzher? C'mon. This is not Kadri or Frattin. If you want to make the case of Holzher over Komisarek than I'm all for it but to throw our Schenn for Holzher??? Ridiculous.
You are making that judgement, yet most likely you have never seen Holzer play. I am only saying that because you spelt his name with a random h in his name lol... There games are extremely similar. Holzer is absolutely dominating in the AHL.

Also to say Schenn is better than Holzer by downplaying Holzer is completely unfair. As an older prospect, he has proven more than anyone of our defense in the minors that he is ready to make the jump. If you were to say Schenn had a bad year and can turn it around, then I would understand you favoring Schenn, but downplaying Holzer is ignorant imo.

As for Holzer over Komi, I am pretty sure I'd have Mikus, Lashoff, Fraser or Gysbers over him let alone Holzer.


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06-01-2012, 11:46 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
No. I would still label him below average/inconsistent. I would say that he has struggled for the good majority of his career. He was a healthy scratch many times in his short career.
He's been scratched for a total of 6 games in his career. 6 games out of 316 is nothing. Not to mention Komisarek, Franson, and Gardiner were all healthy scratches this year. As far as struggling for the majority of his career it's been two rough seasons out of four...AKA - Development.

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06-01-2012, 11:49 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by G51 K81 View Post
You are making that judgement, yet most likely you have never seen Holzer play. I am only saying that because you spelt his name with a random h in his name lol... There games are extremely similar. Holzer is absolutely dominating in the AHL.

As for Holzer over Komi, I am pretty sure I'd have Mikus, Lashoff, Fraser or Gysbers over him let alone Holzer.
100% I would rather have Holzer than Komisarek. I love Holzer's game and we don't need 4.5M as the 6th Dman or in the pressbox.

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06-01-2012, 11:53 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Smif View Post
100% I would rather have Holzer than Komisarek. I love Holzer's game and we don't need 4.5M as the 6th Dman or in the pressbox.
I wouldn't even want Komi if he was making league minimum, let alone 4.5mill lol

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06-01-2012, 12:03 PM
  #92
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Luke,

I'm tired of you struggling. Get your head screwed on right or get the **** out!

PS - when you become a healthy scratch it means you've had consecutive bad games. When you get scratched 6 times that means you've had minimum 36 to 50 bad games. That's a lot. Pull up your socks now!

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06-01-2012, 12:09 PM
  #93
Smif
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
Luke,

I'm tired of you struggling. Get your head screwed on right or get the **** out!

PS - when you become a healthy scratch it means you've had consecutive bad games. When you get scratched 6 times that means you've had minimum 36 to 50 bad games. That's a lot. Pull up your socks now!
6 games total...3 games his second season, 3 games his fourth season.

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06-01-2012, 12:35 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
Luke,

I'm tired of you struggling. Get your head screwed on right or get the **** out!

PS - when you become a healthy scratch it means you've had consecutive bad games. When you get scratched 6 times that means you've had minimum 36 to 50 bad games. That's a lot. Pull up your socks now!
Minimum 36 to 50 bad games? Minimum? I also enjoy making up arbitrarily selected stats to push my narrative.

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06-01-2012, 12:48 PM
  #95
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Minimum 36 to 50 bad games? Minimum? I also enjoy making up arbitrarily selected stats to push my narrative.
Arbitrary?

I was being extemely kind. Notice how I didn't say "82 games"?

I probably should have.

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06-01-2012, 01:14 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Kessely Snipes View Post
In theory maybe, but I don't like saying that a player who has never played a game in the NHL is better than Schenn. Lets see Holzer play with the big boys.
Prospects with zero NHL experience > NHL'ers

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06-01-2012, 01:18 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by tpc77 View Post
However, he is 22, which is very young for Dmen in this league. Look at many other top NHL Dmen who are now 25-35, many didn't even get into the league until they were 22-23.
Your point is both valid and also not valid:

-Pros: Schenn is just 22, but his presence in the NHL isn't an accomplishment in itself, because if he wasn't fast tracked to the league and given Golden Boy status at 18, who knows how long it would have taken him to get to the NHL.

-He's played well at times, but that's always been with an asterisk, *for his age.

-He doesn't have that Doughty/Pietrangelo potential or even shown the tools to be that kind of defenseman, so why does he get compared to "other top NHL dmen"?

He's had significant time in the league and has gotten worse. The environment doesn't help, but maybe he's just not that good?

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06-01-2012, 01:24 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Prospects with zero NHL experience > NHL'ers
Top 5 accolades but struggling badly > any other player drafted after them.

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06-01-2012, 01:27 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Your point is both valid and also not valid:

-Pros: Schenn is just 22, but his presence in the NHL isn't an accomplishment in itself, because if he wasn't fast tracked to the league and given Golden Boy status at 18, who knows how long it would have taken him to get to the NHL.

-He's played well at times, but that's always been with an asterisk, *for his age.

-He doesn't have that Doughty/Pietrangelo potential or even shown the tools to be that kind of defenseman, so why does he get compared to "other top NHL dmen"?

He's had significant time in the league and has gotten worse. The environment doesn't help, but maybe he's just not that good?
Maybe's he's just not that good - True. Give him one more season??

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06-01-2012, 01:37 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Smif View Post
Maybe's he's just not that good - True. Give him one more season??
I'm not opposed to it, I'm also not opposed to pulling the plug. Don't think it matters too much as the success of the Leafs no longer really rests on Schenn anyway.

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