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Sekera was the Sabres BEST defensemen

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Old
06-01-2012, 12:03 PM
  #301
struckbyaparkedcar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Hockey Abstract posted the usage charts for each team in 2011-12, and analyzed the data, as well. I suggest you all give it a read.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...g0NWFmOWEyYzNh

Here's what they had on Sekera:
I hate the last guy's paragraph because he looks at production before role. Ennis wasn't this team's number one center and that line was at its best chewing up second and third pairings.

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06-01-2012, 12:30 PM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
I hate the last guy's paragraph because he looks at production before role. Ennis wasn't this team's number one center and that line was at its best chewing up second and third pairings.
Yes he was and they were going against the top pairings in the last month and a half.

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06-01-2012, 12:35 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Scott Stevens is absolutely relevant in the context of this discussion, because several posters are propagating the myth that "whoever plays the most is the best and most valuable, regardless of the difficulty of the minutes played."

Niedermayer played more than Stevens in every playoffs the NHL keeps icetime stats for, but you wouldn't think for a second that he was more valuable than Stevens. Why is that? Because Stevens was his team's best defensive defenseman and sacrificed overall icetime and gaudy offensive numbers to play defense and let other defensemen play easy minutes.

Is he better than Sekera ever will be, at either end of the ice? Certainly, but that's not the ******* point.

Also, good to know that Ryan O'Reilly, Steven Stamkos, John Tavares, etc are all totally irrelevant because they're the best players on "garbage teams." Cause Sekera having a season comparable or better than shutdown defensemen on ****ing playoff teams is the reason we missed the playoffs.
I really didn't want toget dragged back into this thread, but some comments can't go unchecked. Niedermeyer played more minutes than Stevens because he is a first ballot HOFer who could play in all situations. Saying that Scott Stevens playing less minutes than Niedermeyer is relevant to this discussion is just as insane as comparing Sekera to Stevens in the first place.

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06-01-2012, 12:42 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I really didn't want toget dragged back into this thread, but some comments can't go unchecked. Niedermeyer played more minutes than Stevens because he is a first ballot HOFer who could play in all situations. Saying that Scott Stevens playing less minutes than Niedermeyer is relevant to this discussion is just as insane as comparing Sekera to Stevens in the first place.
nobody compared Sekera to Stevens... the "we hate stats" crowd just used the mention of him to drag the conversation off course since the entirety of their argument has been bludgeoned to death with facts

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06-01-2012, 12:49 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Yes he was and they were going against the top pairings in the last month and a half.
Apparently Michael Del Zotto, Luke Schenn and Jeff Schultz are top pairing defensemen (cause that's who Drew Stafford was scoring against).

I feel bad that I jumped in this thread again. I thought Zip's post merited the discussion though (and I take bait way too easily).


Last edited by struckbyaparkedcar: 06-01-2012 at 12:54 PM.
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06-01-2012, 01:00 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Yes he was and they were going against the top pairings in the last month and a half.
uh... you're wrong... again.

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06-01-2012, 01:03 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Apparently Michael Del Zotto, Luke Schenn and Jeff Schultz are top pairing defensemen (cause that's who Drew Stafford was scoring against).

I feel bad that I jumped in this thread again. I thought Zip's post merited the discussion though (and I take bait way too easily).
I remeber Lindy going on The Howard Simon show with about a month left in the season discussing how shut down unit were focusing on the Ennis line and how it was helping Vanek free his game back up.

As for the second part, yeah, we've killed this horse 10x over, but hey, it's the offseason. There are only so many offseason trades to be proposed also. Is what it is.

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01-17-2013, 02:24 AM
  #308
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Can't believe I missed this thread. I was of the opinion that Sekera was our best defenseman last year, without seeing this breakdown.

I'm wondering what this level of granularity says about Sulzer, because everyone seems to be penciling him in to the top-6 if not the top-4, and I just wasn't impressed by his play all that much last year, which put me firmly at odds with most Sabres fans.

At this date, I'd rather give Pardy a look in the top 6 than Weber or Sulzer, were it not for his efficient German synchromesh with Ehrhoff who clearly needs to be in the top 6.

Brennan #7, PP specialist, but at least one that can shoot like MAB as opposed to MAG.

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01-17-2013, 04:28 AM
  #309
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Yeah, well.... Apparently, the thread and the analysis and talk in it should be linked to TBN, who described Sekera's last season as "disappointing, only 16 points".

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01-17-2013, 05:05 AM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralonzo View Post
Can't believe I missed this thread. I was of the opinion that Sekera was our best defenseman last year, without seeing this breakdown.

I'm wondering what this level of granularity says about Sulzer, because everyone seems to be penciling him in to the top-6 if not the top-4, and I just wasn't impressed by his play all that much last year, which put me firmly at odds with most Sabres fans.

At this date, I'd rather give Pardy a look in the top 6 than Weber or Sulzer, were it not for his efficient German synchromesh with Ehrhoff who clearly needs to be in the top 6.

Brennan #7, PP specialist, but at least one that can shoot like MAB as opposed to MAG.
Bless you for bumping my favorite thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto View Post
Yeah, well.... Apparently, the thread and the analysis and talk in it should be linked to TBN, who described Sekera's last season as "disappointing, only 16 points".
To some extent his offense was a LITTLE disappointing. Watching the occasional stretches of offensive dominance he'd shown the previous couple seasons, you'd think he could have a bit more in him in that regard. Of course, it's more important that he play very well defensively, and he did still produce offensively at a pretty decent clip considering the context of his play.

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01-17-2013, 09:10 AM
  #311
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Oh look, THIS thread.

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01-17-2013, 09:13 AM
  #312
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Re: Sekera's offense.

I agree. The guy looks like he should be a better point producer. He's made some nice plays on the rush, skates very well, and possess the puck a lot like Hecht did in this prime.

I think he just suffers from a lack of that next level Hockey IQ. The game doesn't really slow down for him like it does for some other guys, and that's why he looks like he should produce more than he actually does.

Dude is still a hell of a defender and is comically underrated.

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01-17-2013, 10:30 AM
  #313
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thanks for the bump.

clearly, this was my finest moment.

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01-17-2013, 10:34 AM
  #314
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I take full credit for bringing this back into the HF conscience by linking to it in the Trade Board thread where Vogl's horrible critique of Sekera was used as rationale for why he should be traded.

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01-17-2013, 10:36 AM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto View Post
Yeah, well.... Apparently, the thread and the analysis and talk in it should be linked to TBN, who described Sekera's last season as "disappointing, only 16 points".
I'll do it right now. I'm sure they'll have some pointless rebuttal.

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01-17-2013, 10:51 AM
  #316
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Ahhh, the thread that proved how irrelevant and over used advanced stats can be, back from the dead.

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01-17-2013, 10:54 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Ahhh, the thread that proved how irrelevant and over used advanced stats can be, back from the dead.
Or you can watch the games, and come to the same conclusion.

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01-17-2013, 11:02 AM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Ahhh, the thread that proved how irrelevant and over used advanced stats can be, back from the dead.
Not sure how it proves that considering that the conclusions align with observational analysis. Really the only thing contrary to the idea of Sekera being excellent for us last season is perhaps the box score. Arguing about advanced stats vs observational analysis is one thing, but arguing about advanced stats vs. box score is a joke. They're the same thing (statistical analysis), except advanced statistical analysis is... an advanced form of that analysis, and is inherently more insightful and useful.

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01-17-2013, 11:06 AM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Ahhh, the thread that proved how irrelevant and over used advanced stats can be, back from the dead.
Ah, the thread that has over 30 people agreeing with this breakdown and analysis. And one or two that cover their eyes, and refuse to believe. Ignorance is bliss.

It's ok, I know your schtick.


Last edited by ZZamboni: 01-17-2013 at 11:16 AM.
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01-17-2013, 11:06 AM
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Ahhh, the thread that proved how irrelevant and over used advanced stats can be, back from the dead.
Yeah, tell us again about how that one time where Sekera muffed a PP point shot leading to a SH goal in the 1st period proves your entire point about how Sekera sucks when he plays more than 22 minutes.

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01-17-2013, 11:13 AM
  #321
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Ahhh, the thread that proved how irrelevant and over used advanced stats can be, back from the dead.
Ahhh, the poster that proved his ignorance

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01-17-2013, 11:27 AM
  #322
stokes84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Ah, the thread that has over 30 people agreeing with this breakdown and analysis. And one or two that cover their eyes, and refuse to believe. Ignorance is bliss.

It's ok, I know your shtick.
What's my shtick? Not blindly following the herd?

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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Yeah, tell us again about how that one time where Sekera muffed a PP point shot leading to a SH goal in the 1st period proves your entire point about how Sekera sucks when he plays more than 22 minutes.
He totally blew that Toronto game, no doubt. Biggest game of the season and he choked. Big moments can say a lot about a player, especially when we are making bold claims like this thread does.

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01-17-2013, 11:30 AM
  #323
Jame
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
What's my shtick? Not blindly following the herd?
Instead, you walked off a cliff

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01-17-2013, 11:36 AM
  #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
He totally blew that Toronto game, no doubt. Biggest game of the season and he choked. Big moments can say a lot about a player, especially when we are making bold claims like this thread does.
While this can be true, it usually isn't. "Clutch", "playoff performer", etc are so overblown in sports. Kobe Bryant continually loses games for his team because everyone in the world thinks he is 'clutch'. Every player has made a bad turnover in a big game, from Bobby Orr to Wayne Gretzky. Unless it's a trend, it's hardly sensible to judge a player based on one of thousands of career plays.

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01-17-2013, 11:38 AM
  #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
What's my shtick? Not blindly following the herd?
I highly doubt Jame belongs to any herd, nor does anyone follow Jame. He disagrees with posters pretty much all the time...if there is something that most of the board can agree with Jame on...that's really quite rare. And likely means there is some truth to it.

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