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v18: Hornets win draft lottery, will pick 1st. Raptors will pick 8th.

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06-01-2012, 08:06 AM
  #976
aingefan
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
If we get Kevin Martin, do we still even need Derozan? Kevin Martin will take over the teams scoring and turn this team around pretty quickly. I'd say that deal would be a steal for the Raptors.
In this scenario, you could package DD with #8 to move up.

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06-01-2012, 08:10 AM
  #977
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In this scenario, you could package DD with #8 to move up.
That'd be massive. The Raps would have a whole different team, and with DD being my favourite player, I wouldn't mind it.

Which team would want Demar though?

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06-01-2012, 12:13 PM
  #978
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2 things:

Chad Ford apparently believes Jonas Valanciunas would be the 2nd overall selection this year after Anthony Davis.

I'm ridiculously pumped to see this kid play for the Raps.

Also, http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...rkless_At_No_8

Quote:
The Raptors are expected to target a perimeter player capable of creating his own shot with the eighth overall selection.

Dion Waiters, Terrence Ross, Jeremy Lamb and Damian Lillard are all possible targets. Sources say Moe Harkless is also in the mix at No. 8 as a sleeper.

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06-01-2012, 01:14 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
2 things:

Chad Ford apparently believes Jonas Valanciunas would be the 2nd overall selection this year after Anthony Davis.

I'm ridiculously pumped to see this kid play for the Raps.

Also, http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...rkless_At_No_8
Would Jeremy Lamb work? What do people think of him?

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06-01-2012, 01:19 PM
  #980
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Lamb is probably BPA, but I hope colangelo can trade up in this draft. Seems really weak this year.

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06-01-2012, 02:29 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by binop7 View Post
Lamb is probably BPA, but I hope colangelo can trade up in this draft. Seems really weak this year.
Actually this year and next year are being lauded as very strong drafts.

This year, however, there is a drop off after 7th overall (perfect that the Raps are 8th ) but all in all its a strong year, particularly after the 15th pick.

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06-01-2012, 02:46 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
If the Raptors slide into help facilitate salaries as part of a Houston trade with, say, LA for Gasol (who they already wanted last year), they could probably significantly lower the price the team would pay for Lowry. Instead of the 8th they could give up a cheap roster player and agree to take a poisonous contract. The Raps have even more $$$ to play with anyway thanks to a trade exception they got from the Barbosa trade.

Recall that at the start of the year, Houston was willing to ship out Luis Scola, Kevin Martin, Goran Dragic, and a 1st in order to get Gasol from the Lakers during that ill-fated Chris Paul 3-way trade.

So based on that, and just as a "for instance", I used ESPN's trade machine (click to go to the TM page) to do this:

To Toronto:
Kyle Lowry
Kevin Martin

To Houston:
Pau Gasol

To Los Angeles:
Jose Calderon
Luis Scola

There could be some pick movement in there somewhere. Give a 1st to Houston that's not the 8th this year.

Houston gets Gasol, who they wanted to begin with. the Lakers get themselves a real PG in lieu of missing out on Paul last year and they get Scola to essentially replace Gasol at a somewhat minimal downgrade. Both players are older, but it's a last gasp attempt to win a title with Kobe before they can torch the veteran core of the team and try to rebuild, possibly around Bynum if they don't deal him in a secondary trade. The Raptors get their PG of the now and future in Lowry, and take the bigger contract of Kevin Martin, who can provide some offensive punch and whose defensive deficiencies can be masked in Casey's system.
That's actually not bad but I think they'll be hoping for more value for Lowry.

K-Mart might be a bad contract, but he's got one more year so it's manageable at worst for them.

I have a feelings they'll want us to swap picks with one of theirs. They get a better chance to get a top prospect, we get a PG.

So something like:

Toronto:
#14
Lowry


Houston:
#8
Gasol

Lakers:
Calderon
Scola

I guess if they really insisted, we could take back K-Mart too.

With the 14th overall, we have a few options. If we wanted a SG, we could take Waiters. Zellers/Heson/Moultrie if we wanted a big man.

I think that's the type of value they'll be looking at.

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06-03-2012, 09:19 AM
  #983
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I honestly think we should trade DeRozan. People think he's the future of the Raptors, that he's going to be a star but I just don't see it. His inconsistency on defense is really bother some. Off the bench player at best

EDIT: Would you trade away DeRozan if you acquire Lamb? I mean Lamb isn't as athletic as DeRozan but his scoring ability is much better and his mid range game is way better than DeRozan's

Jose
Lamb
James Johnson
Barg
Jonas

Bayless
???
Kleiza
Ed Davis
Solomon Alabi/Aaron Gray?


Last edited by joffreyLUUPUL: 06-03-2012 at 09:34 AM.
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06-03-2012, 09:54 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by The Don Draper View Post
Actually this year and next year were being lauded as very strong drafts.

This year, however, there is a drop off after 7th overall (perfect that the Raps are 8th ) but all in all its a strong year, particularly after the 15th pick.
Fixed.

There's not nearly as much top-end talent as many once presumed there would be. Barnes disappointed, Perry Jones disappointed, Lamb disappointed, Drummond disappointed, and Sullinger disappointed also. Not to mention those who disappointed that aren't even entering the draft this year.

The depth of the draft this year is pretty good, but this draft isn't nearly as good as many thought it would be at this time last year.

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06-03-2012, 09:58 AM
  #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joffreyLUUPUL View Post
I honestly think we should trade DeRozan. People think he's the future of the Raptors, that he's going to be a star but I just don't see it. His inconsistency on defense is really bother some. Off the bench player at best

EDIT: Would you trade away DeRozan if you acquire Lamb? I mean Lamb isn't as athletic as DeRozan but his scoring ability is much better and his mid range game is way better than DeRozan's

Jose
Lamb
James Johnson
Barg
Jonas

Bayless
???
Kleiza
Ed Davis
Solomon Alabi/Aaron Gray?
That lineup is terrible.

The answer to your question though, is likely yes. I would probably allow one more year of DeRozan (I'm not afraid to admit that I was a huge DeRozan fan), as I don't think it would be wise to just hand over the starting job to Lamb (same goes for Jonas) but, assuming Lamb impresses, I would definitely look to trade DeRozan.

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06-03-2012, 12:17 PM
  #986
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I remember in earlier threads when Demar doubters were being destroyed by his believers.

If we do look for an upgrade at SG hopefully we trade him before his value diminishes more. He might still be looked at as a potential all star by some teams.

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06-03-2012, 12:29 PM
  #987
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I remember in earlier threads when Demar doubters were being destroyed by his believers.

If we do look for an upgrade at SG hopefully we trade him before his value diminishes more. He might still be looked at as a potential all star by some teams.
For the most part, it was because his doubters were using the logic of pre-schoolers.

I admit I was wrong, and I did believe DeMar was going to break out this year, but I sure as **** am not going to say that DeMar doubters were right.

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06-03-2012, 02:21 PM
  #988
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If Demar can work on his FT shooting and be more consistent he is going to be a great player for years to come

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Old
06-03-2012, 02:33 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Charlie Sheen Swag View Post
If Demar can work on his FT shooting and be more consistent he is going to be a great player for years to come
What?

He shot 81% from the free-throw line.

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06-03-2012, 02:39 PM
  #990
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DeMar needs to hit the weight room and bulk up. A better jumper from range wouldn't hurt either because it might allow him to take advantage of defenders that sapce themselves to defend the drive, but he just needs to get stronger and play more aggressively. A couple of jabsteps and half-hearted attempts to beat his man one-on-one followed by an 18-foot jumper is not a viable offensive strategy.

He could also stand to pass more, but now I'm just being picky.

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06-03-2012, 07:24 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by Charlie Sheen Swag View Post
If Demar can work on his FT shooting and be more consistent he is going to be a great player for years to come

Demar needs to everything but this.

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06-04-2012, 12:13 AM
  #992
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How about Demar just driving more? Being aggressive? And how about the referees helping him out and giving him some of the calls? If Demar wants to succeed in the NBA he needs to be a slasher. His mid-range game is obviously not there, and it's not getting any better. If he wants to succeed, drive to the hoop.

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06-04-2012, 12:19 AM
  #993
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But he can't drive to the hoop consistently because

A) The opposition doesn't respect his shot (for good reason) and back off him

B) He isn't quick/have a good first step so he always has to resort to his patented spin move to drive through the lane

Clearly he's not the budding all star we all hoped he was. But can he at least add a 3 point shot or become a better defender? If not he's just a inefficient 17ppg one way player.

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06-04-2012, 12:23 AM
  #994
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Originally Posted by Charlie Sheen Swag View Post
If Demar can work on his FT shooting and be more consistent he is going to be a great player for years to come
He'd be a solid player. Great? No!

I hope he can buy into Casey's system and become a very good defensive player. He has the skill to score 20 points but he needs to become a more efficient scorer. So far he hasn't given me any indication that you can run your offense through him.

Someone brought up a solid point that trading him before his payday might be a good idea.

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06-04-2012, 12:25 AM
  #995
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
But he can't drive to the hoop consitently because

A) The opposition doesn't respect his shot (for good reason) and back off him

B) He isn't quick/have a good first step so he always has to resort to his patented spin move to drive through the lane

Clearly he's not the budding all star we all hoped he was. But can he at least add a 3 point shot or become a better defender? If not he's just a inefficient 17ppg one way player.
Give him more time with Casey and his defense will get there. He's athletic enough that once he puts all the pieces together, he'll be okay. Not giving up on this guy yet.

Kobe
Year 1: 7.6 ppg, 15.5 mpg, 1.3 ast, 1.9 reb
Year 2: 15.4 ppg, 26 mpg, 3.1 ast, 3.1 reb
Year 3: 19.9 ppg, 37.9 mpg, 3.8 ast, 5.3 reb

Demar
Year 1: 8.6 ppg, 21.6 mpg, 0.7 ast, 2.9 reb
Year 2: 17.2 ppg, 34.8 mpg, 1.8 ast, 3.8 reb
Year 3: 16.7 ppg, 35 mpg, 2.0 ast, 3.3 reb

I say give Demar one more year, then if not, get rid of him.

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06-04-2012, 05:37 AM
  #996
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
Colangelo should deal with Charlotte

Charlotte

#2

Toronto

#8
Ed Davis

Charlotte needs more help than just the #2 pick and they get a PF with some talent and still has a shot at more quality at #8.

Raptors get small forwards who will fit into Casey mold of good defender and leadership. It also clears a log jam at the PF position
Charlotte says No. Ed Davis sucks.

I think we should try acquiring a good point guard. I'm not sold on the Jose/Bayless tandem.

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06-04-2012, 10:58 AM
  #997
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Give him more time with Casey and his defense will get there. He's athletic enough that once he puts all the pieces together, he'll be okay. Not giving up on this guy yet.

Kobe
Year 1: 7.6 ppg, 15.5 mpg, 1.3 ast, 1.9 reb
Year 2: 15.4 ppg, 26 mpg, 3.1 ast, 3.1 reb
Year 3: 19.9 ppg, 37.9 mpg, 3.8 ast, 5.3 reb

Demar
Year 1: 8.6 ppg, 21.6 mpg, 0.7 ast, 2.9 reb
Year 2: 17.2 ppg, 34.8 mpg, 1.8 ast, 3.8 reb
Year 3: 16.7 ppg, 35 mpg, 2.0 ast, 3.3 reb

I say give Demar one more year, then if not, get rid of him.
Terrible comparsion. Kobe as a kid was playing with Shaq in his prime who was leading the league in scoring almost every year. Their whole offense was built around him. Here Derozan has no one that can take shots away from him.


The Kobe comparsions really need to stop. I'd rather see him moved now because if we give him another year and he has a similar season his trade value will drop. Try and trick some GM into buying into his "potential".

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06-04-2012, 12:57 PM
  #998
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Terrible comparsion. Kobe as a kid was playing with Shaq in his prime who was leading the league in scoring almost every year. Their whole offense was built around him. Here Derozan has no one that can take shots away from him.


The Kobe comparsions really need to stop. I'd rather see him moved now because if we give him another year and he has a similar season his trade value will drop. Try and trick some GM into buying into his "potential".
People will continue to give Demar Derozan a chance just because of his athleticism. Of course the Kobe comparisons are terrible, I'm just showing how slowly Kobe got his complete game together and that's when the offense could be ran through him. No one gave up on Kobe when he was young. We shouldn't do it yet on Derozan. That's all. He needs to build bulk. A lot of it. Everyone knew this. We need to have patience that this guy can do so.

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06-04-2012, 05:33 PM
  #999
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The thing with DD is I don't see him becoming a star type player until his outside games improves. Right now his offensive game is inconsistent and his defensive game is inconsistent at best.

I was never a huge fan of this pick but I still think he has talent, and in his 3rd year scored at an alright rate all things considered. I don't see an advantage in trading him as I don't see us getting anything back that would (A) be an upgrade over DD or (B) have as much potential as DD.

So in the end I think the wait and see approach is best served here. The last thing this franchise needs is to trade this guy and watch him break out for another team.I still think he is more valuable to Toronto compared to what Toronto would receive in a trade for his services. Keep DD and draft 8th and take BPA, it may not be the popular choice but I think it's the smart choice.

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06-04-2012, 06:19 PM
  #1000
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We're at 1000 posts now. I'll put a new thread up in a minute

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