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List of candidates for Assistant GM's and Coach Part X

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Old
06-01-2012, 12:04 PM
  #51
Habruti!
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Another weird part of it is that there is plenty of evidence that Roy is smarter than your average ex-player. This is the guy that co-created modern scientific goaltending.

So lack reference to coaching ability might not be he lacks them. Its that these media guys are in fact storytellers, not analysts. Their opinions seem based narrative logic rather than evidence. I don't know if its because they are incapable of better or if that's just what they think the audience wants to hear.
I think you meant he was the first to apply the butterfly style but by no means he should be tagged with co-creator. Does he have above average hockey IQ? I would say yes like the majority of good Goaltender. Goaltending is one of these position where you make a career at watching the game and reading the plays. I have no doubt he would be good for our young Dmen and while he is widly recognized as a winner I am not sure is an excellent motivator. This is where I think a guy like Groulx as an advantage over him...

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06-01-2012, 12:08 PM
  #52
Erik Estrada
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Roy, Carbonneau, thinking of any other name...














Therrien, Crawford.

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06-01-2012, 12:10 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Kingbobert View Post
Therrien and Crawford dont particularly interest me and they bore me.
I want something new so I'd go with Roy
And i'd get groulx and carbo as assistants.

Carbo, say what you will about him as a HC but he was a phenomenal assistant coach and ran our special teams top 5 in the league. He has said he's willing to come back in any capacity to help out the team so it shows me he just wants montreal to win.

Groulx is a fantastic mentor and considering we're getting more and more youth on the team, he could help keep the youngsters on the right track. He also runs very heavy practices and keeps players in top shape which is something we've been lacking lately

With those 2 at his side, Roy would have experience to help him as a rookie coach and all he has to do is bring in the passion and motivation that was gone with muller left
I could live with this if it came to pass. Roy is not my preference as HC, but I'd be willing to give him a couple of seasons to see what he could do.

Carbo has serious communication problems, but I agree he's an exceptional, tactical asst. coach. If Pat and Guy are in place, I think they'd need a "father figure" presence for the players and who better than Larry Robinson. Odds are he stays in Jersey, but he might be opened to a new challenge, especially considering his long history with the franchise.

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06-01-2012, 12:36 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Habruti! View Post
I think you meant he was the first to apply the butterfly style but by no means he should be tagged with co-creator. Does he have above average hockey IQ? I would say yes like the majority of good Goaltender. Goaltending is one of these position where you make a career at watching the game and reading the plays. I have no doubt he would be good for our young Dmen and while he is widly recognized as a winner I am not sure is an excellent motivator. This is where I think a guy like Groulx as an advantage over him...
Roy neither created nor was the first to apply the butterfly style. Tony Esposito was the real innovator on this front and Francois Allaire built upon this foundation with a very rigid and structured system.

As for Roy being a good coaching candidate.........no thanks. He is a world class ******* who would implode and throw everyone and everything under the bus to try and save his own neck if/when things started going south. He has absolutely no integrity and is a self centered ego-maniac who should be kept far away from this organization.

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06-01-2012, 12:38 PM
  #55
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It's becoming more and more apparent, that whoever the coach is, Bergevin needs to contact Robinson once the season is over and get him here to coach the D.

If that happens, I am OK with Roy, Carbonneau or Therrien.

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06-01-2012, 12:38 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
As for Roy being a good coaching candidate.........no thanks. He is a world class ******* who would implode and throw everyone and everything under the bus to try and save his own neck if/when things started going south. He has absolutely no integrity and is a self centered ego-maniac who should be kept far away from this organization.
Has he ever done this with the current team he's been coaching?

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06-01-2012, 12:40 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post

As for Roy...who would implode and throw everyone and everything under the bus to try and save his own neck if/when things started going south.
and you know this from personal experience?

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06-01-2012, 12:44 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BobbyFischer View Post
Has he ever done this with the current team he's been coaching?
It is different in junior where coaches are rarely challenged by their players and much more is kept in house. That being said he has on many occasions publicly thrown his players under the bus as Stefanovich was a favourite whipping boy of his.

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06-01-2012, 12:47 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
It is different in junior where coaches are rarely challenged by their players and much more is kept in house. That being said he has on many occasions publicly thrown his players under the bus as Stefanovich was a favourite whipping boy of his.
Like, worse than when Therrien threw his entire team under the bus and basically said they are the worst defensive team in the league?

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06-01-2012, 12:48 PM
  #60
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Roy is a passionate supporter of his own locker room. Roy will fight tooth and nail for his players and has no issue facing suspension or fine to defend them. You will rarely hear a junior player talk poorly of him and Europeans especially blossom under Roy due to the fact he doesn't treat them like second class citizens.

Roy's biggest negative is that he's a control freak. However, that's not a bad thing if the coach and GM are on the same page. Roy says, "We need another blueline shooter" and Bergevin says, "Okay coach, I'll get you another blueline shooter". Why do people have to assume the negative?

Everyone is afraid of a big controversial blow up just because it once happened to Roy as a player. You cannot get much more simple than that.

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06-01-2012, 12:49 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by disturbedraven View Post
and you know this from personal experience?
Yes.

I know plenty of people like him and they follow very similar behavioural patterns. There is a reason why he isn't being seriously considered for the job in Montreal as he was not well liked by other players and I am sure Bergevin knows plenty of disturbing, behind the scene stories.

This isn't blind hate on my part as he was once my favourite player but much to my dismay........I have come to recognize his true colours over the years.

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06-01-2012, 12:50 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Everyone is afraid of a big controversial blow up just because it once happened to Roy as a player. You cannot get much more simple than that.
That's what I think too.

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06-01-2012, 12:51 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by BobbyFischer View Post
Like, worse than when Therrien threw his entire team under the bus and basically said they are the worst defensive team in the league?
That was a boneheaded move on Therrien's part and I can't say I would be thrilled to see him hired as head coach either.

Not sure why you brought him up as I haven't said a word about him???

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06-01-2012, 12:53 PM
  #64
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That's what I think too.
There was alot of behind the scenes garbage from Roy and it only got worse in Colorado. Ask Craig Wolanin about Roy's behind the scene power plays and back stabbing.

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06-01-2012, 01:16 PM
  #65
Et le But
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Another weird part of it is that there is plenty of evidence that Roy is smarter than your average ex-player. This is the guy that co-created modern scientific goaltending.

So lack reference to coaching ability might not be he lacks them. Its that these media guys are in fact storytellers, not analysts. Their opinions seem based narrative logic rather than evidence. I don't know if its because they are incapable of better or if that's just what they think the audience wants to hear.
Well I have no doubt Roy understands hockey beyond cliches about passion and toughness - people might remember him for the interviews, the shouting, the fights, but like you said, he pioneered goaltending as a technical art, and from all reports is the kind of guy who studies hockey in detail.

That doesn't mean he's necessarily going to be a good tactical coach, especially as the Remparts let him get away with a lot that wouldn't work in the NHL. You always hear his strengths of recruiting and pushing kids to work hard, the kind of things that are irrelevant in the NHL level.

At this point I don't know if Roy would be a good NHL coach. There's reasons to think he genuinely understands the sport, but issues such as his ego, temper and desire for complete control are concerning. Did Roy get along with his teammates as a player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habruti! View Post
I think you meant he was the first to apply the butterfly style but by no means he should be tagged with co-creator. Does he have above average hockey IQ? I would say yes like the majority of good Goaltender. Goaltending is one of these position where you make a career at watching the game and reading the plays. I have no doubt he would be good for our young Dmen and while he is widly recognized as a winner I am not sure is an excellent motivator. This is where I think a guy like Groulx as an advantage over him...
Roy didn't necessarily "invent" much but he perfected a style of goaltending that was more about skill and smarts than pure reflexes. I don't doubt he understands the tactical side of the game, but I fear he's one of those guys who are in love with their own intelligence a bit too much.

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Old
06-01-2012, 01:23 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Habruti! View Post
I think you meant he was the first to apply the butterfly style but by no means he should be tagged with co-creator. Does he have above average hockey IQ? I would say yes like the majority of good Goaltender. Goaltending is one of these position where you make a career at watching the game and reading the plays. I have no doubt he would be good for our young Dmen and while he is widly recognized as a winner I am not sure is an excellent motivator. This is where I think a guy like Groulx as an advantage over him...
Not just that he used the butterfly style, that was done before him. It was the revolution in the entire way goaltenders were trained and equipt which was sparked by what Roy and Allaire did with the position. They completely did away with the old reactive style goaltending and built a new system based on playing the percentages of where the puck was most likely to end up. This was the most important tactical change in hockey in recent times and the reason goaltending stats ballooned in the nineties as everyone either adapted to the new style or was trained in it (equiptment helped but it was the revolution in technique that was the most important). Its also why nearly every goaltender plays some kind of evolutionary descendant of Roy's butterfly style.

Its also likely the primary reason why Quebec born players dominated goaltending in the nineties. There was a short period of time when the quality of instruction and technique there was far ahead of anywhere else.


None of this is to say he's necessarily a good tactical coach in the modern sense. But if we're going to talk about Roy's personality as a factor there's far more to it than "fiery, passionate, winner" etc. Even as a player I'd say those aspects of his personality were secondary to his success in comparison to what being an innovator at his position got him. Hating to lose doesn't help you at all if you don't have the skills it takes to be better than your competition. But that makes for less engaging copy writing.


Last edited by Talks to Goalposts: 06-01-2012 at 01:31 PM.
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06-01-2012, 01:26 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by BobbyFischer View Post
Like, worse than when Therrien threw his entire team under the bus and basically said they are the worst defensive team in the league?
That's what got the Pens back on track from being a miserable team.

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06-01-2012, 01:26 PM
  #68
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Do you guys think that the reason why this is taking so long is because they really want to interview Jon Cooper before making the final decision?
I know he is anglo, but he is a well educated man and maybe he speaks some french? Does anyone know?

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06-01-2012, 01:26 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
There was alot of behind the scenes garbage from Roy and it only got worse in Colorado. Ask Craig Wolanin about Roy's behind the scene power plays and back stabbing.
Roy never stabbed Wolanin in the back. The fool wasn't good enough and kept passing it up the middle. Roy made sure the team won the Cup by getting Wolanin out of the lineup.

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06-01-2012, 01:37 PM
  #70
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That's what got the Pens back on track from being a miserable team.
I'm not saying criticism is bad per se, simply pointing out that other candidates have done this as well.

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06-01-2012, 01:46 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Habruti! View Post
Believe me it would... if Cunnyworth would be in the finals this year you can bet your ass that he would still be the coach next season.
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i agree with you, with a winning team, fans don't give a damn but in the given situation, it would not work cause like it or not, even if you put Babcock behind the bench, we are not winning the cup next year.... (By the way, Babcock has not won a cup in 5 years (just saying)
Al McNeil won the Cup and they called in bomb threats to his place. He had to be dispatched to Nova Scotia after winning the Stanley Cup. So, no. Some fans don't give a puck whether we win or lose. As long as the right ethnic type is in place. How many? I don't know but it must be enough for Bertrand Raymond to feel comfortable saying what he said on RDS last night.

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06-01-2012, 02:06 PM
  #72
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It's becoming more and more apparent, that whoever the coach is, Bergevin needs to contact Robinson once the season is over and get him here to coach the D.

If that happens, I am OK with Roy, Carbonneau or Therrien.
Might as well hire Robinson as the Head Coach if those guys are the only candidates.

Big Bird has been my pick all along, I'm really hoping he is the man MB is eyeing for.
The only question mark about him is the stress/pressure, but I'm a lot more comfortable gambling on him than on the others.

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06-01-2012, 02:07 PM
  #73
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Maybe all this wait is a giant smoke screen to hide the fact that Roy was picked as the coach by Molson/Savard even before they selected Bergevin as the GM

P.S.
I'm just half serious.....but hey you never know.

With some empty seats at the end of the season, Roy would surely be a great marketing move.

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Old
06-01-2012, 02:09 PM
  #74
Habaneros
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Originally Posted by marc88 View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=397361

Roy is still in the running!
What did i say yesterday?

Exactly what i was saying.The media seem to think Marc won't hire a rookie ,and forced to hire a recycled named? I don't buy it .ALL doors are open .
I remember Marc and Pierre was specifically ASKED about Roy in the interview....it never left my head even when media was trying to say he was out of the running.

Sitting back this has been played very well, there has been no ROY bombardment in the media since end of his playoffs.....

If Roy was named coach at end of his season HE WOULD HAVE no break! the media would be all over him .


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Old
06-01-2012, 02:15 PM
  #75
Habaneros
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Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
Maybe all this wait is a giant smoke screen to hide the fact that Roy was picked as the coach by Molson/Savard even before they selected Bergevin as the GM

P.S.
I'm just half serious.....but hey you never know.

With some empty seats at the end of the season, Roy would surely be a great marketing move.
I think your right, more want Roy as coach than don't want him (public opinion polls), so he got numbers on his side.


Habs pick another trap coach especially this soon! , it's goona be ugly ...
The habs got a lot of YOUNG PLAYERS, and more coming.
We need a guy who can relate to young players, not a Martin type.

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