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phil kessel

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Old
05-31-2012, 07:25 PM
  #26
Carlzner
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Originally Posted by QMJHLfollower View Post
It would take a big overpayment. Something like:

Kessel for Kreider/Stepan + Del Zotto/McDonaugh + Miller/St. Croix + 1st round pick 2012.
Honestly I don't even consider Kessel to be worth much more than McDonagh. Kid's a stud.

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05-31-2012, 07:50 PM
  #27
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As a Leafs fan, I agree that it would take much more from the other teams to even get Kessel off our side because this guy is nearly flawless type of player offensively when he is on his game(which happens more often than it does not), a complete offensive dynamo, can create it all by himself given decent/weak/great linemates, a legit all-star that has tremendous play-making which gets overlooked by many aside from us Leafs fans but even he has his moments at times where he can be the most exciting player but also one of the most frustrating players in the league due to him not understanding the importance of playing complete game, therefore, his value takes a dip.

I wouldn't want to trade him but his honest fair value from the Rangers side would be McDonagh and IMO he would be the only player on the rangers that I had may pull the trigger on because I see his value being similiar to Kessel value-wise.

Why some may think I see them having the equal value even though McD has just been an elite defensive d-men with limited offensive showings? well because the way I see it, both of these still have plenty of time and skill-set to become even more better than they currently and especially McDonagh who had every bit of asset required to become a solid all-around d-men in the mold of Ryan Suter where-else Kessel has all the tools to become a prime Gaborik in his time Minessota if they both hit their utmost potential which in the end I have a gut feeling they will come close enough if not fullfilling their utmost potential.

Look at it this way, Kessel seems like franchise winger(top 10 worthy) if he hits 40+ goals or consistent 80+ points plateau and McDonagh on the other potential franchise d( also top 10 worthy) if all goes right with him and his development with his all-around game.

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05-31-2012, 07:59 PM
  #28
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This stuff some fans are posting about 'Teams would have to really overpay Kessel's value to get him because of the boneheaded (paraphrasing) trade Burke made to get him' really maked no sense. Why would a rival GM pay more than Kessel, a player who while offensively very talented is a liability defensively, is worth just because Burke made a stupid trade to get him? That's on Burke. Another GM is not going to compensate him by overpaying for Kessel. Other GMs/teams are not in the league to do the Leafs and their GM a favour to help him get a 'get out of jail free' card for dumb moves he makes, let alone let him profit from those mistakes.

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05-31-2012, 08:02 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Honestly I don't even consider Kessel to be worth much more than McDonagh. Kid's a stud.
100% Agree

Kid is a stud

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Old
05-31-2012, 08:09 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
This stuff some fans are posting about 'Teams would have to really overpay Kessel's value to get him because of the boneheaded (paraphrasing) trade Burke made to get him' really maked no sense. Why would a rival GM pay more than Kessel, a player who while offensively very talented is a liability defensively, is worth just because Burke made a stupid trade to get him? That's on Burke. Another GM is not going to compensate him by overpaying for Kessel. Other GMs/teams are not in the league to do the Leafs and their GM a favour to help him get a 'get out of jail free' card for dumb moves he makes, let alone let him profit from those mistakes.
The point is Burke paid a hefty price to get him, chances are he isn't going to deal him until he gets a similar hefty return. This is not about what other GMs are willing to trade but whether Burke will let go of Kessel for any less than the return he already gave up. In which case I think its a legitimate argument.


All that aside the Leafs will not trade Kessel especially when they have literally zero secondary scoring. The guy is a beast as long he doesn't have a particular Bruin on him.

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Old
05-31-2012, 09:03 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
It would take Brian Burke getting fired. Because IF Burke were to trade Kessel it would be because he's deciding to rebuild. Which is the total opposite of what he's been preaching for half a decade now as Leafs GM. IF Burke was fired, & a new GM decided it was time to rebuild?

To NYR:
Kessel

To TOR:
Stepan
McDonaugh
No way Toronto does that..

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Old
05-31-2012, 09:11 PM
  #32
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Would the Rangers do Kessel and Franson for Stepan, Del Zotto, Anisimov and 1st round pick 2012?

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05-31-2012, 09:29 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by WildcatMapleLeafs28 View Post
No way Toronto does that..
Putting Kessel's vakue ties with Boston aside, it would be a smart move to take that offer. We all know we paid a significant extra price for Kessel but McDonagh and Stepan too much of a solid offer to turn down even if we are losing our primary offensive threat.

Stepan is a great young player who looks like he could potentially develop into great 2nd line C or marginal 1st line C and McDonagh would be an amazing pair for Phaneuf and set up our Blue-line for years to come.

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Old
05-31-2012, 09:39 PM
  #34
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In reality, Burke would not give Phil Kessel up even if he was tempted for anything less than McD, MDZ, Stepan/Kreider. He would lose his job if he goes back on a trade that costed 2 franchise cornerstones..

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05-31-2012, 09:41 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by QMJHLfollower View Post
Would the Rangers do Kessel and Franson for Stepan, Del Zotto, Anisimov and 1st round pick 2012?
I probably would. It would be tough to lose two potential 2nd line centres, but we may able to find a filler via free agency.

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05-31-2012, 11:26 PM
  #36
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Reality is that Kessel won't be traded. Why? Because that would mean Brian Burke is admitting that he ****ed that trade up. Personally, I like Kessel, and BB is going to continue trying to find him that #1C. If he doesn't find that #1C, Kessel will walk when he becomes a UFA. If we have a #1C that makes Kessel better, then IMO he will stay.

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Old
06-01-2012, 04:35 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by mokspeed View Post
Reality is that Kessel won't be traded. Why? Because that would mean Brian Burke is admitting that he ****ed that trade up. Personally, I like Kessel, and BB is going to continue trying to find him that #1C. If he doesn't find that #1C, Kessel will walk when he becomes a UFA. If we have a #1C that makes Kessel better, then IMO he will stay.
I don't agree with that at all, he would trade Kessel if it makes the Leafs a better team. So what if he misjudged the original trade with Boston, that doesn't mean that he won't move Kessel for someone better.

Hypothetically, if the Penguins offer Malkin for Kessel and the 2013 1st Burke would jump on it even though he would be trading Kessel and a first round pick which Leafs fans haven't seen in years and are really looking forward to, because it would make the team better.

If he isn't going to trade Kessel in a deal that makes the team better then he needs to be fired immediately because it is impossible to do your job correctly if you have to operate under a set of rules that says you cannot learn from your mistakes and have to stand by them no matter what. That is a total disservice to the Leafs and I am pretty sure it is not the way things really are.

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Old
06-01-2012, 06:36 AM
  #38
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Speechless...
Outsider looking in, but why wouldn't Burke ask for something like that?

He has no reason to trade Kessel. On talent/age alone he is worth a ton. Add to that the fact that Burke traded what ended up being Seguin and Hamilton for him and, IMO, there is no way Burke will ask for anything less than extreme overpayment.

Good, young established NHLer with big potential; Top prospect with big potential; 1st round pick. That would be my guess, however it could end up being more.

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Old
06-01-2012, 07:29 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Lupes View Post
Putting Kessel's vakue ties with Boston aside, it would be a smart move to take that offer. We all know we paid a significant extra price for Kessel but McDonagh and Stepan too much of a solid offer to turn down even if we are losing our primary offensive threat.

Stepan is a great young player who looks like he could potentially develop into great 2nd line C or marginal 1st line C and McDonagh would be an amazing pair for Phaneuf and set up our Blue-line for years to come.
Agreed. Losing Kessel would def suck for Toronto fans, but you'd have a pretty solid core to build on with Gardiner, Stepan, McDonagh etc.. Not too mention if Burke can land himself Galy w/ the 5th pick,, Leafs may have their future #1 #2 centers locked in. Get a vet to mentor Scrivens & Reimer,, 3 or 4yrs down the road, the Leafs are built for success, w/ talent AND depth.

Could something be worked around Luke Schenn for Sean Couterier?

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06-01-2012, 07:32 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Honestly I don't even consider Kessel to be worth much more than McDonagh. Kid's a stud.
take off the homer glasses.

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Old
06-01-2012, 07:59 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
This stuff some fans are posting about 'Teams would have to really overpay Kessel's value to get him because of the boneheaded (paraphrasing) trade Burke made to get him' really maked no sense. Why would a rival GM pay more than Kessel, a player who while offensively very talented is a liability defensively, is worth just because Burke made a stupid trade to get him? That's on Burke. Another GM is not going to compensate him by overpaying for Kessel. Other GMs/teams are not in the league to do the Leafs and their GM a favour to help him get a 'get out of jail free' card for dumb moves he makes, let alone let him profit from those mistakes.
I think your completely missing the point. The point is he wouldn't be traded. Especially after the season he just had.

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06-01-2012, 09:04 AM
  #42
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leafs are trying to add to kessel, not move him. if we were going to do a proper rebuild then maybe it would make sense but id say at this point burke thinks he is retooling and adding to what he considers his foundation.

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06-01-2012, 09:15 AM
  #43
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I really don't know what I would take for Kessel.

Kessel is great right now, but he'll be even better if the Leafs get that C they've been looking for since Sundin left.
Problem is if you move Kessel for a number 1 C, you're back in the situation we had with Sundin. A top line centre with nobody to feed the puck too.

Now we have the top line winger(s? Have to see next season from Lupul before I include him) and no C on their level.

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06-01-2012, 10:42 AM
  #44
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McDonagh + Kreider for Kessel.

Only trade I would do tbh. I don't like Stepan at all

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06-01-2012, 10:48 AM
  #45
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Problem is if you move Kessel for a number 1 C, you're back in the situation we had with Sundin. A top line centre with nobody to feed the puck too.

Now we have the top line winger(s? Have to see next season from Lupul before I include him) and no C on their level.
The playoffs?

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Old
06-01-2012, 11:14 AM
  #46
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You're contradicting yourself. Kessel is part of the rebuild, a long-term fixture at that. At 25 y/o he'll only be entering his prime.
a 5mil+ one dimensial winger that is probably going to get a raise in the next few seasons is not a rebuild type guy. In fact ever since the leafs traded for Kessel hes been the anti-rebuild

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06-01-2012, 01:05 PM
  #47
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Can't see this happening. Leafs would take roster players. Maybe Pittsburgh could offer J. Staal and Dupuis? That would help with their cap problems, but Kessle will be expecting a raise in a few years and that wouldn't be a great position to be in at that time for the Pens...

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06-01-2012, 01:06 PM
  #48
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The playoffs?
We missed the playoffs when we had Sundin too. What got us to the playoffs was Sundin + Cujo.

Kessel + a Cujo would be playoffs too.

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Old
06-01-2012, 01:10 PM
  #49
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a 5mil+ one dimensial winger that is probably going to get a raise in the next few seasons is not a rebuild type guy. In fact ever since the leafs traded for Kessel hes been the anti-rebuild
Kessel plays a two-way game and is getting better and better at doing so. That being said, even if he were a 1-dimensional player he is not over-priced.

According to your logic the Leafs should just trade their entire roster and all their draft picks for all the draft picks from all the other teams in the 2020 draft.

If a 25 year old can be considered "too old" for a rebuild then how can an 18 year old be considered young enough? We need to round up all the 10 year olds and draft them.

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Old
06-01-2012, 01:12 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
Can't see this happening. Leafs would take roster players. Maybe Pittsburgh could offer J. Staal and Dupuis? That would help with their cap problems, but Kessle will be expecting a raise in a few years and that wouldn't be a great position to be in at that time for the Pens...
Dupuis is really the last one you'd need to get rid of for cap problems.

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