Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Mez is a solid Dman. That #5 and #9 pick might turn into something very good down the road... however there's still absolutely no reason to move Bogo. His performance isn't an issue. He's still under contract, and has a very friendly cap hit, and is still an RFA after that.
Or they keep Bogo (the best D in the deal - and likely still the case even after those picks mature), and still pick something decent at #9.
Would you trade Giroux if you were offered J Staal and a couple of high draft picks? Didn't think so.
If you want Bogo, you would have to offer them something that fills one of their needs. Giving them a D and some picks doesn't do this. In this case down the middle. So put a deal together with one of Schenn/Couturier, and make it decent enough for them to consider moving their best D.
it sounds ridiculous but this is actually a perfect analogy. Bogo is our Giroux, we see him as future franchise player, a sure bet to be a top 15 dman in the league, if we have one untouchable, it's him.
I would generally assume Giroux is an untouchable, so would you take the downgrade to a good (but not as good) center with a couple of picks? Not saying Bogo=Giroux, but i would say the difference in value from stall to giroux is accurate to the difference in value between mez and bogo.
payment would probably be something like Mez + Schenn and then to be honest, probably another +
no one would like it, but thats why he's not getting moved.
You don't actually think Kulemin and MacArthur are better than JVR, do you?
At this point in time, they are both outproducing JVR while playing with what everyone here deems, a less skilled supporting cast - simple math you should do before posting an uneducated response. So quite simply, they have chemistry with Grabovski and have outperformed JVR, so they deserve the top-6 minutes over JVR.
JVR does not crack the Leafs top 6 where as Schenn cracks the Philly top-4 defense. No kidding, brutal truth.
No way the Flyers do this. Luke is in the toilet and needs to get out of Toronto to jump start a once promising career. Franson has been out playing him but who hasn't on the leafs. Brian wants JVR really bad and would gladly unload Luke in a deal to land him. He better move soon or else he will be **** out of luck once the Flyers land Suter or Weber. So I propose this.
No way the Flyers do this. Luke is in the toilet and needs to get out of Toronto to jump start a once promising career. Franson has been out playing him but who hasn't on the leafs. Brian wants JVR really bad and would gladly unload Luke in a deal to land him. He better move soon or else he will be **** out of luck once the Flyers land Suter or Weber. So I propose this.
Tor
L.Schenn
1st 2012
2nd 2012
Phi
JVR
Bob
Rights to MAB
3rd 2012
That's awful, and I'm a Flyers fan.
JVR = Schenn + 2nd.
2012 1st >>> Bob, MAB, and a 3rd.
I'm launching a one-man mission to keep Flyers fans from including Boudon's RFA rights like they are something significant. First, we need him; second, most teams have at least 2-3 prospects who are just as likely to be serviceable 5-6 defensemen.
At this point in time, they are both outproducing JVR while playing with what everyone here deems, a less skilled supporting cast - simple math you should do before posting an uneducated response. So quite simply, they have chemistry with Grabovski and have outperformed JVR, so they deserve the top-6 minutes over JVR.
JVR does not crack the Leafs top 6 where as Schenn cracks the Philly top-4 defense. No kidding, brutal truth.
If Burke acquired JVR (and didn't give up Lupul, Kessel, Kulemin or MacA), he would supplant either MacA or Kulemin on the 2nd line. I'm not sure which, but for a number of reasons JVR would be getting top 6 icetime. Those reasons include: salary/contract (4.2mx5), potential, pedigree, etc. MacA might have done better than JVR, but that's not to say he's a better player. JVR is younger and bigger. And if A) he was healthy and B) they didn't have Hartnell, Voracek, Simmonds, Jagr, Reed, as well which ever of their centers who play wing all playing very well, and all pushing him further down the depth chart when, he could have done a lot better.
Give him some consistent icetime and he'll be just fine. He just needs to be healthy for the season and actually have a chance at getting top 6 minutes.
Schenn for JVR straight up is a possibility, I'm not sure how I feel about that one. However, adding the 5th overall pick for Flyers spare parts (a goalie who is arguably not even good enough to be an NHL backup, and a couple much lower picks) is a total no-go, and makes this deal incredibly easy to turn down from a Leafs points of view.
In what world is Schenn better than:
Gorssmann
Coburn
Timonnen
Mez
Pronger
They're all more consistent than Schenn. Sure his top end potential is high, but he's not a better player than any of those guys today.
Pronger's career is very possibly over. He won't screw Philly over by retiring, as they'd be hit with his cap hit due to his 35+ contract, but it sounds like he could be on the IR indefinitely. He's 37 (and will be 38 at the start of next season), he just missed an entire season with a concussion, and as of the last report from anyone (his wife here: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=618120) his concussion symptoms really have not improved at all.
As for Grossmann, I personally think Schenn is better. Still, Schenn would probably be the 4th best dman on Philly (if Pronger is out), behind Timonen, Meszaros and Coburn.
Carle and Kubina are UFAs, hard to say what will happen there, but if both leave and Pronger is finished, then Philly's defense needs work.
Pronger's career is very possibly over. He won't screw Philly over by retiring, as they'd be hit with his cap hit due to his 35+ contract, but it sounds like he could be on the IR indefinitely. He's 37 (and will be 38 at the start of next season), he just missed an entire season with a concussion, and as of the last report from anyone (his wife here: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=618120) his concussion symptoms really have not improved at all.
As for Grossmann, I personally think Schenn is better. Still, Schenn would probably be the 4th best dman on Philly (if Pronger is out), behind Timonen, Meszaros and Coburn.
Carle and Kubina are UFAs, hard to say what will happen there, but if both leave and Pronger is finished, then Philly's defense needs work.
Say what?
The Flyers defense immediately got markedly better when Grossmann was acquired and he was on the Flyers top D pair in the playoffs. The Leafs defense was bad all year and Schenn was a bottom pairing guy and occasional scratch.
I appreciate the OP deciding that the Leafs and Jets are the target suckers of his lopsided trades that only benefit the Flyers.
However, I get the feeling its not going to come about.
How about both goalies to the Leafs?
To Toronto
Bryz
Bobo
To Flyers
Kessel
Kadri
Schenn
Gardiner
5th overall
Leafs get two goalies to help them in case on fails. Add them to the 5 half baked ones they got now, they all only need to play 12 games each to fill out the season.
Flyers get a package of excellent young talent and top 5 pick that makes the OP trade proposal look like a Leaf dream.
I appreciate the OP deciding that the Leafs and Jets are the target suckers of his lopsided trades that only benefit the Flyers.
However, I get the feeling its not going to come about.
How about both goalies to the Leafs?
To Toronto
Bryz
Bobo
To Flyers
Kessel
Kadri
Schenn
Gardiner
5th overall
Leafs get two goalies to help them in case on fails. Add them to the 5 half baked ones they got now, they all only need to play 12 games each to fill out the season.
Flyers get a package of excellent young talent and top 5 pick that makes the OP trade proposal look like a Leaf dream.
I appreciate the OP deciding that the Leafs and Jets are the target suckers of his lopsided trades that only benefit the Flyers.
However, I get the feeling its not going to come about.
How about both goalies to the Leafs?
To Toronto
Bryz
Bobo
To Flyers
Kessel
Kadri
Schenn
Gardiner
5th overall
Leafs get two goalies to help them in case on fails. Add them to the 5 half baked ones they got now, they all only need to play 12 games each to fill out the season.
Flyers get a package of excellent young talent and top 5 pick that makes the OP trade proposal look like a Leaf dream.
Really hope your joking, it does look like you are though/
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6
Luke Schenn
5th overall pick
James Van Riemsdyk
Sergei Bobrovsky
20th overall pick
2nd round pick in 2013
It has been well recognized that JVR = Schenn + 2nd, even though i disagree and feel they are equal in terms of value but that is a subject for another matter, in what ****ing world does 20th overall + redundant Bob = 5th overall
At this point in time, they are both outproducing JVR while playing with what everyone here deems, a less skilled supporting cast - simple math you should do before posting an uneducated response. So quite simply, they have chemistry with Grabovski and have outperformed JVR, so they deserve the top-6 minutes over JVR.
JVR does not crack the Leafs top 6 where as Schenn cracks the Philly top-4 defense. No kidding, brutal truth.
L. Schenn would be below Timonen, Coburn, Grossmann, Pronger (if he can come back), and 2010-11 Meszaros. He'd be #4 AT BEST.
JVR, Bobrovsky, Lilja, and PHI's 1st for Schenn, Lombardi, and Tor's 1st.
L. Schenn would be below Timonen, Coburn, Grossmann, Pronger (if he can come back), and 2010-11 Meszaros. He'd be #4 AT BEST.
JVR, Bobrovsky, Lilja, and PHI's 1st for Schenn, Lombardi, and Tor's 1st.
toronto's 1st (5th overall) is more valuable then bobrovsky, and the leafs; would rather have lomboardi and hope he bounces back rather then take an aging defenseman in lilja and 20th overall
toronto's 1st (5th overall) is more valuable then bobrovsky, and the leafs; would rather have lomboardi and hope he bounces back rather then take an aging defenseman in lilja and 20th overall
JVR for Schenn is feasible
JVR is worth Schenn+. Bobrovsky is worth a mid- to low-2nd. Lombardi and Lilja have almost no value, but Lilja is one-fifth the cost (both are UFA's in 2013). The only reasons Lombardi is in there are to balance salaries and a bit, and the Flyers could use a center who is could on faceoffs. Going by values, it's JVR, a 1st, and two lower 2nds for Schenn and a higher 1st. You don't think that is fair?
JVR is worth Schenn+. Bobrovsky is worth a mid- to low-2nd. Lombardi and Lilja have almost no value, but Lilja is one-fifth the cost (both are UFA's in 2013). The only reasons Lombardi is in there are to balance salaries and a bit, and the Flyers could use a center who is could on faceoffs. Going by values, it's JVR, a 1st, and two lower 2nds for Schenn and a higher 1st. You don't think that is fair?
so you're saying JVR is worth Schenn (a former 1st 5th overall) + another 1st (top 5 pick)? bobrovsky wouldnt be much of an upgrade and is unproven as reimer, there is big difference between 5th overall and 20th overall, as for lilja and lambordi as cap dump sounds alright
so you're saying JVR is worth Schenn (a former 1st 5th overall) + another 1st (top 5 pick)? bobrovsky wouldnt be much of an upgrade and is unproven as reimer, there is big difference between 5th overall and 20th overall, as for lilja and lambordi as cap dump sounds alright
No. I am saying JVR is worth Schenn and a late 2nd, and Bobrovsky is also worth a late 2nd. Hence, JVR, Bobrovsky, and the 20th overall = Schenn and the 5th overall. If Leafs fans really don't want to part with the 5th overall unless it's part of a package for a top center, I get it, but I think the value is fair in this deal.
As for Grossmann, I personally think Schenn is better. Still, Schenn would probably be the 4th best dman on Philly (if Pronger is out), behind Timonen, Meszaros and Coburn.
lol. Sure. Grossmann would be in the top 3 in Toronto behind Phaneuf and Gunnarsson. Liles and Gardiner are both PMD, and while I'd rather have Gardiner over Grossmann, it would only be for his potential and not for what he can currently do. Schenn is at best a #4 in Toronto, and more realistically a #5 there.
simple math you should do before posting an uneducated response. So quite simply, they have chemistry with Grabovski and have outperformed JVR, so they deserve the top-6 minutes over JVR. 
No way the Flyers do this. Luke is in the toilet and needs to get out of Toronto to jump start a once promising career. Franson has been out playing him but who hasn't on the leafs. Brian wants JVR really bad and would gladly unload Luke in a deal to land him. He better move soon or else he will be **** out of luck once the Flyers land Suter or Weber. So I propose this.
