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2012 NHL Entry Draft (All NON-Ranger Prospect Discussion Thread - Part I)

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Old
06-01-2012, 04:21 PM
  #776
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Anyone think the Rangers will try move up? What's a Dubi + 1st package get you?

If they don't think they can make a trade for a scoring winger and given the UFA class is weak would they move up?
The only players that might be able to make an immediate impact for the team are going to be picked at the very start of the draft. Dubi and a first isn't getting us into the top 5.

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06-01-2012, 04:47 PM
  #777
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Haven't really followed him since his draft year. Why is he going unsigned - has he not developed or does he want to bolt his organization (or is it some other reason entirely)?
He rode some of the bloodlines hype into the draft. I think taking him at #63 was too high to begin with, but for a "defensive" d-man, he just always seemed a step or two behind the play. That never seemed to improve since he was drafted. That's just my take on it.

In terms of other reasons, I'm not sure if he was offered a contract or not from the Blues.

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06-01-2012, 04:53 PM
  #778
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There's no doubt that there's one name on everyone's tongue right now. But strangely enough, the player I really like in this draft is Ryan Murray. Obviously we are not getting him, but I just live his game.
Me, too. He's the surest thing in the draft. He's above average in nearly every facet of the game, and easily one of the smartest, best prepared players in the draft. Him and Morgan Rielly might be the two highest IQ players, IMO.

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06-01-2012, 05:05 PM
  #779
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Curious if there are any other high value players out there (other than the anointed Schultz) who are not signing with the teams that drafted them and instead are headed to free agency?

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06-01-2012, 05:07 PM
  #780
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Curious if there are any other high value players out there (other than the anointed Schultz) who are not signing with the teams that drafted them and instead are headed to free agency?
Not exactly an answer to your question, but there are several guys who aren't being signed by their teams, including Brock Beukeboom. Petr Straka is one who I wish the Rangers would take a flyer on. Incredible puckhandler.

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06-01-2012, 05:12 PM
  #781
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Not exactly an answer to your question, but there are several guys who aren't being signed by their teams, including Brock Beukeboom. Petr Straka is one who I wish the Rangers would take a flyer on. Incredible puckhandler.
Straka has rocks in his head. Very talented though.

I'd be interested in Ludvig Rendsfelt. Though I'm not sure he'll be a UFA. He played in Sarnia last season, so I'm unsure if he's still eligible to reenter the draft or not as a Euro. I would think not.

Joonas Donskoi did not reach terms with Florida and will be reentering the draft. He's a quality player. From what was reported, it sounded like the issue was that he wanted to be loaned back to Europe, so Florida lowered their offer and Donskoi's camp rejected it.

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06-01-2012, 05:13 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
With Gaborik's injury you want to subtract NHL roster players to add someone who won't help for at least two years?

Dubinsky isn't going anywhere unless it's for a legitimate high-end NHL scorer.
Dubinsky can be replaced via FA hell your boy Jones would be sufficient. It doesn't have to be Dubinsky, maybe a prospect or two and the pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
The only players that might be able to make an
immediate impact for the team are going to be picked at the very start of the draft. Dubi and a first isn't getting us into the top 5.
Realize this, wasn't thinking we'd get into the top 5 but getting a higher pick might be the easiest way to inject some top six talent into our organization.

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06-01-2012, 05:15 PM
  #783
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If Collberg fell to a reasonable spot, and Dubinsky could get us up to grab him, I'd be all about it.

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06-01-2012, 05:15 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Dubinsky can be replaced via FA hell your boy Jones would be sufficient. It doesn't have to be Dubinsky, maybe a prospect or two and the pick.

Or they can keep those assets and sign Schultz.

And allocate those assets toward acquiring primary scoring if they can't land Parise.

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06-01-2012, 05:25 PM
  #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If Collberg fell to a reasonable spot, and Dubinsky could get us up to grab him, I'd be all about it.
There you go, actually thinking outside the box .

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Or they can keep those assets and sign Schultz.

And allocate those assets toward acquiring primary scoring if they can't land Parise.
Yeah they can continue to stockpile bottom 6 talent, but what we really need is a winger who can put the puck in the net. The loss of Cherepanov really set us back IMO. I know we have Kreider but one more would never hurt especially if the idea is to sign secondary scoring and not a big name.

No saying you can't move up if the opportunity presents itself and still sign Schultz. It would be cheaper in terms of assets to move up in the draft than trade for primary scoring. If we're not in win now mode then what's it hurt developing another top six forward.

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06-01-2012, 05:41 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
There you go, actually thinking outside the box .



Yeah they can continue to stockpile bottom 6 talent, but what we really need is a winger who can put the puck in the net. The loss of Cherepanov really set us back IMO. I know we have Kreider but one more would never hurt especially if the idea is to sign secondary scoring and not a big name.

No saying you can't move up if the opportunity presents itself and still sign Schultz. It would be cheaper in terms of assets to move up in the draft than trade for primary scoring. If we're not in win now mode then what's it hurt developing another top six forward.
I'm not sure how trading away the assets it would require to get a high-end scorer in this draft would help.

That player wouldn't help us in the next two seasons.

We can use those same assets to get a player that would help us now and in the future.

With Gaborik out, our primary scoring, we need to replace that now.

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06-01-2012, 05:56 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I'm not sure how trading away the assets it would require to get a high-end scorer in this draft would help.

That player wouldn't help us in the next two seasons.

We can use those same assets to get a player that would help us now and in the future.

With Gaborik out, our primary scoring, we need to replace that now.
Ok, gotcha... There are multiple possibilities. You're intent with focusing on one, I am looking at more than one. Apparently our philosophies are vastly different and there is no point in discussing this anymore.

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06-01-2012, 06:45 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by caley View Post
Jeremy Rutherford confirms St. Louis will not sign Brock Beukeboom or Stephen MacAulay. I wouldn't have a problem with my Oilers drafting either of those guys.

https://twitter.com/jprutherford/sta...86246304813059
Brock Beukeboom


i wonder if Rangers have interest......

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06-01-2012, 07:26 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Ok, gotcha... There are multiple possibilities. You're intent with focusing on one, I am looking at more than one. Apparently our philosophies are vastly different and there is no point in discussing this anymore.
That's not true.

Explain what your philosophies are.

My concern is losing more depth on the NHL roster. We have a good crop of prospects on the way. Miller and Fast are potential high-end players.

I agree we don't have an elite-level scoring prospect. Kreider is our closest thing. He may not ever be a 40 goal guy, who knows. But i believe he will be a 30 goal guy that does more than just score.

I hope to add that high-end scorer to the NHL roster sooner than later. Because of Gaborik's injury.

As far as defense, adding Schultz would possibly address the right-side concerns. We could also add a veteran like Sarich, for hopefully cheap.

But, with Gaborik's uncertainty, we could be in trouble as far as scoring goals.

I was content with adding a guy like Jones as secondary scoring, before learning of Gaborik's injury. But how can we be sure what will happen with that? Gaborik's main attribute is his shot. And if his shoulder isn't 100% that is a big problem.

Even if he is 100%, can he handle the load again with shoulder concerns?

We should add that scorer this summer, if possible. IF POSSIBLE. I wouldn't be happy if they sacrificed our future for it. It has to be the right deal.

That's why I hope for Parise. Even though i hate wanting a guy who plays for the Devils. And if there are concerns with Gaborik or cap space, we can trade Gaborik later, because he will be entering the final year of his contract in 13-14.

And please don't take that as a slight against Gaborik.

Unfortunately, and suddenly there are more concerns now going into the summer then there was a day ago.

That doesn't mean that i'm not confident in this young team. I am. I just see some possibly big concerns right now.

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06-01-2012, 07:31 PM
  #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If Collberg fell to a reasonable spot, and Dubinsky could get us up to grab him, I'd be all about it.
You'd all rather Collberg than Aberg?

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06-01-2012, 07:39 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Brock Beukeboom
Perhaps...he's lost a lot of time to injuries the last two seasons. And his Dad was a late bloomer.

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06-01-2012, 07:45 PM
  #792
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
That's not true.

Explain what your philosophies are.

My concern is losing more depth on the NHL roster. We have a good crop of prospects on the way. Miller and Fast are potential high-end players.

I agree we don't have an elite-level scoring prospect. Kreider is our closest thing. He may not ever be a 40 goal guy, who knows. But i believe he will be a 30 goal guy that does more than just score.
We're on the same page here, I'm just looking to add to that pool sooner rather than later if it doesn't cost too much.

Quote:
I hope to add that high-end scorer to the NHL roster sooner than later. Because of Gaborik's injury.

As far as defense, adding Schultz would possibly address the right-side concerns. We could also add a veteran like Sarich, for hopefully cheap.
Fine with this as well, but who knows where Schultz winds up, if we miss out on him then what?

Quote:
But, with Gaborik's uncertainty, we could be in trouble as far as scoring goals.

I was content with adding a guy like Jones as secondary scoring, before learning of Gaborik's injury. But how can we be sure what will happen with that? Gaborik's main attribute is his shot. And if his shoulder isn't 100% that is a big problem.

Even if he is 100%, can he handle the load again with shoulder concerns?

We should add that scorer this summer, if possible. IF POSSIBLE. I wouldn't be happy if they sacrificed our future for it. It has to be the right deal.

That's why I hope for Parise. Even though i hate wanting a guy who plays for the Devils. And if there are concerns with Gaborik or cap space, we can trade Gaborik later, because he will be entering the final year of his contract in 13-14.

And please don't take that as a slight against Gaborik.

Unfortunately, and suddenly there are more concerns now going into the summer then there was a day ago.

That doesn't mean that i'm not confident in this young team. I am. I just see some possibly big concerns right now.
Bolded the keywords, my suggestion while hypothetical is based on the fact that we may not have that many options this summer. Sure we will get a crack at the UFA's like everyone else but I'm not sold on Parise signing here, if not him then who? If we end up having to trade assets to bring in an impact winger it's going to cost more than our 1st and Dubinksy. So maybe we put a package like that out there and try move up in the draft, then if we need that impact player we might have to look at parting with a D-man. I'm not saying it's the only option and taking NHL talent off this roster for a pick is counter productive, but if it's Dubinsky or one of the 2nd/3rd line tweeners we have it would be easier to replace them via FA.

Ideally I would like to see something like this happen, Sign Schultz, trade a D-man in a package for primary scoring, sign a guy or two for the bottom two lines who provide secondary scoring, move up in draft to get a more impact player that will come in when Gaborik goes.

Trade-Richards-Gaborik
Kreider-Stepan-Hags?
FA/Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
Prust-Boyle-Yogan/FA?


Last edited by Barbara Underhill: 06-01-2012 at 07:52 PM.
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06-01-2012, 08:31 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
We're on the same page here, I'm just looking to add to that pool sooner rather than later if it doesn't cost too much.



Fine with this as well, but who knows where Schultz winds up, if we miss out on him then what?



Bolded the keywords, my suggestion while hypothetical is based on the fact that we may not have that many options this summer. Sure we will get a crack at the UFA's like everyone else but I'm not sold on Parise signing here, if not him then who? If we end up having to trade assets to bring in an impact winger it's going to cost more than our 1st and Dubinksy. So maybe we put a package like that out there and try move up in the draft, then if we need that impact player we might have to look at parting with a D-man. I'm not saying it's the only option and taking NHL talent off this roster for a pick is counter productive, but if it's Dubinsky or one of the 2nd/3rd line tweeners we have it would be easier to replace them via FA.

Ideally I would like to see something like this happen, Sign Schultz, trade a D-man in a package for primary scoring, sign a guy or two for the bottom two lines who provide secondary scoring, move up in draft to get a more impact player that will come in when Gaborik goes.

Trade-Richards-Gaborik
Kreider-Stepan-Hags?
FA/Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
Prust-Boyle-Yogan/FA?

If we sign Schultz, Erixon MIGHT make Del Zotto trade-able (not sure that's a real word i used there). Del Zotto could sweeten a package for a top line scorer.

I really have a hard time parting with Dubinsky because of his board play, and his puck possession down low. The forecheck we lacked against the Devils. A third line of Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan really gives us solid depth.

And i agree, teams will have us right where they want us as far as trades. Knowing Gaborik is hurt and we have to replace the goals. They'll have the leverage.

If we miss out on Parise, I wouldn't trade for Nash or Ryan. It would cost way too much.

I don't know what other options there would be because, we aren't GMs and we aren't in those private conversations.

Who would be realistic secondary options in trade? I've gone through the league rosters and came up with a list of possibilities as far as secondary trades go.

Trades

Ryane Clowe
Dave Bolland
Drew Miller
Steve Downie
Drew Stafford ?
Sean Bergenheim
Devin Setoguchi

Free agency

David Jones
Kyle Wellwood
Jarret Stoll
Paul Gaustad

I used to like Setoguchi a lot. He's struggled a bit recently. But maybe he can catch a bit of fire here? Decent contract.

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06-01-2012, 08:34 PM
  #794
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...
I want to reply but moving it to the off season thread because I think we went way OT in here.

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06-01-2012, 08:43 PM
  #795
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He rode some of the bloodlines hype into the draft. I think taking him at #63 was too high to begin with, but for a "defensive" d-man, he just always seemed a step or two behind the play. That never seemed to improve since he was drafted. That's just my take on it.

In terms of other reasons, I'm not sure if he was offered a contract or not from the Blues.
Quote:
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Perhaps...he's lost a lot of time to injuries the last two seasons. And his Dad was a late bloomer.
Thanks, gents.

I'd be interested - especially if injuries were the reason he didn't progress.

I do see the fact that he wasn't offered a contract by the Blues as a bit of a red flag, however. They've been right there with the Rangers in terms of judging and developing young talent recently. If they're not interested, it makes me wonder...

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06-01-2012, 09:50 PM
  #796
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Anybody want to talk draft, instead of trades and upgrades. I believe there is another thread for that.

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06-01-2012, 09:51 PM
  #797
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I want to reply but moving it to the off season thread because I think we went way OT in here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques Strap View Post
Anybody want to talk draft, instead of trades and upgrades. I believe there is another thread for that.
Seriously? You have to come in and be a smart ass even though we moved on our own accord. Sorry we got a little OT.

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06-01-2012, 09:58 PM
  #798
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Thanks, gents.

I'd be interested - especially if injuries were the reason he didn't progress.

I do see the fact that he wasn't offered a contract by the Blues as a bit of a red flag, however. They've been right there with the Rangers in terms of judging and developing young talent recently. If they're not interested, it makes me wonder...
If we can, it would be nice just to get him on an AHL contract.

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06-01-2012, 10:22 PM
  #799
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You'd all rather Collberg than Aberg?
Yep. I think he had more game breaking potential. He and Kreider would give teams nightmares with their speed and skill.

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06-01-2012, 10:35 PM
  #800
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