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Pronger hopes to return; “There’s no truth to him retiring,” Paul Holmgren.

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06-01-2012, 09:18 AM
  #26
VanSciver
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
OMG! Paul Holmgren denying rumors....go figure Of course, in this instance he is not to be believed but in other instances we are supposed to take him at face value.

All I know is that when Paul Holmgren engages in hyperbolic denials using words like "absurd" and "blown out of proportion" start hiding your children...

All you have to do is look at the situation of what happens if Pronger retires. Pronger doesn't get paid, and the Flyers are on the hook for the full Cap hit and can't use LTIR to replace him. So who does it benefit? So why would Pronger retire?

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06-01-2012, 09:46 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
All you have to do is look at the situation of what happens if Pronger retires. Pronger doesn't get paid, and the Flyers are on the hook for the full Cap hit and can't use LTIR to replace him. So who does it benefit? So why would Pronger retire?
It benefits Pronger to retire. The issue here is whether he is going to come back which is pretty much slim and none and slim just left. Holmgren engaging in perception management is of course obvious and although officially Pronger isn't retired he pretty much is unofficially. Not arguing the CAP implications and the benefits of LTIR..just noting how Holmgren cannot be taken at face value whether it's obvious or not.

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06-01-2012, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
It benefits Pronger to retire. The issue here is whether he is going to come back which is pretty much slim and none and slim just left. Holmgren engaging in perception management is of course obvious and although officially Pronger isn't retired he pretty much is unofficially. Not arguing the CAP implications and the benefits of LTIR..just noting how Holmgren cannot be taken at face value whether it's obvious or not.
No. It benefits Pronger to unofficially retire. Everyone knows he is 99% done. But the second he says he's retired, he gets screwed, and so do the Flyers.

There are 3 Factors really:
1) Pronger playing
2) Pronger getting paid
3) Flyers seeing cap relief

#1 is not happening whether he "retires" or not
#2 only happens if he does not retire
#3 only happens if he does not retire

So since #1 is a given...why would he ever retire?

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06-01-2012, 09:55 AM
  #29
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I wouldn't wish Pronger's medical issues on anybody so, with all due respect, one could probably say stick a fork in it, it's done. Even if he did return, not sure his effectiveness would be near what it was even in 2011.

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06-01-2012, 09:56 AM
  #30
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I think prongs does want to come back, and I bet we see some kind of comeback either late next season or 2 years from now. Missing over a year though at his age coupled with his concussion, I think top 4 pronger is done. There is an outside shot that he can be a great number 5 or 6 when he's back but at 5 mil cap hit that still hurts. Its really a lose-lose situation for the team.

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06-01-2012, 10:02 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
No. It benefits Pronger to unofficially retire. Everyone knows he is 99% done. But the second he says he's retired, he gets screwed, and so do the Flyers.

There are 3 Factors really:
1) Pronger playing
2) Pronger getting paid
3) Flyers seeing cap relief

#1 is not happening whether he "retires" or not
#2 only happens if he does not retire
#3 only happens if he does not retire

So since #1 is a given...why would he ever retire?
That is what I'm basically arguing that he is retired but yes unofficially and yes it benefits Pronger to just be done with hockey period.

Holmgren's denials are denials of convenience..that's what I'm pointing out. He cannot be believed b/c it's obvious Pronger is pretty much done officially or not...

But of course the GM is going to say he may come back precisely b/c of the CAP implications...

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06-01-2012, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
That is what I'm basically arguing that he is retired but yes unofficially and yes it benefits Pronger to just be done with hockey period.

Holmgren's denials are denials of convenience..that's what I'm pointing out. He cannot be believed b/c it's obvious Pronger is pretty much done officially or not...

But of course the GM is going to say he may come back precisely b/c of the CAP implications...
Oh ok. Gotcha. Agreed.

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06-01-2012, 10:47 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Apparently spending time in St Louis to be closer to his wife's family because of medical issues.
It is about time someone posted this.

Thanks

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06-01-2012, 10:52 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
That is what I'm basically arguing that he is retired but yes unofficially and yes it benefits Pronger to just be done with hockey period.

Holmgren's denials are denials of convenience..that's what I'm pointing out. He cannot be believed b/c it's obvious Pronger is pretty much done officially or not...

But of course the GM is going to say he may come back precisely b/c of the CAP implications...


Retirement is an actual process that involves filing with the NHLPA and so forth. So Holmgren really isn't hiding any truths. And it really doesn't benefit Pronger to retire. Not playing for the remainder of his contract and actually retiring aren't the same thing in some cases. And there are situations that come up all the time where the GM shouldn't be forthcoming in making statements.

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06-01-2012, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Retirement is an actual process that involves filing with the NHLPA and so forth. So Holmgren really isn't hiding any truths. And it really doesn't benefit Pronger to retire. Not playing for the remainder of his contract and actually retiring aren't the same thing in some cases. And there are situations that come up all the time where the GM shouldn't be forthcoming in making statements.
Then he should shut his goal mouth b/c it's obvious he's not being forthcoming which you just admitted is something he shouldn't do in many instances. That's why I'm saying you can't really ever take the dude at face value b/c his job as GM is to be PC and engage in perception management. Have to distinguish between his half-truths from outright lies. That takes inferring.

That is why it is laughable when people make convenient defenses against rumors by saying..the GM said this and said that so it must be true. That's all I'm trying to point out. Some "rumor" inferences are just more self-evident as fact vs fiction. This "rumor" denial seems to fall in that range.

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06-01-2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Apparently spending time in St Louis to be closer to his wife's "family" because of medical issues.
Lack of sex IS unhealthy....Prongs needs all the endorphins he can get in that injured head of his...

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06-01-2012, 11:47 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Then he should shut his goal mouth b/c it's obvious he's not being forthcoming which you just admitted is something he shouldn't do in many instances. That's why I'm saying you can't really ever take the dude at face value b/c his job as GM is to be PC and engage in perception management. Have to distinguish between his half-truths from outright lies. That takes inferring.

That is why it is laughable when people make convenient defenses against rumors by saying..the GM said this and said that so it must be true. That's all I'm trying to point out. Some "rumor" inferences are just more self-evident as fact vs fiction. This "rumor" denial seems to fall in that range.
I agree with you there. But in this case I don't think this is a half truth. Pronger is not going to retire. Maybe it's semantics, but retiring is an official process. And I think by the language a Coach or a GM uses, goes a long way in inferring what is being said. But I have no problem with Holmgren's statement here. Because it is the truth.

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06-01-2012, 12:09 PM
  #38
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At least the protracted LTIR offers some hope, however, slim, that Pronger can eventually retire on his own terms. He strikes me as a pretty proud guy; that borders on arrogance at times, but pride on the ice in being an elite athlete doesn't just go away, even in the face of logic. Given his career, it would be pretty sad to bow out in this fashion without getting back on the ice in some capacity.

I'm sure that, were an amnesty clause brought in, it would be a very tough conversation for both Pronger and Holmgren. Holmgren (probably) wouldn't have to even contact Pronger, but you know he would.

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06-01-2012, 12:13 PM
  #39
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Pronger is not going to retire, it's both better for him & the team financially if he doesn't. Where he chooses to "not retire" is up to him. I doubt the league is going to enforce the retirement clause for concussed players, they see whats going on the NFL with lawsuits and forcing someone to retire and depriving them of the remainder of their contract might not go so well.

I think prims wanted to retire and the flyers were going to pay the remainder of his contract anyway, but the league would have had a fit.

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06-01-2012, 02:27 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
I'm fine with his retirement. I liked having Pronger on the Flyers, because he was (still) an amazing defensemen. But I really won't mind not having to listen to him be a cocky ****** with everyone that ever interviews him. He'll probably get amnestied if that's an option. Take his 5 million and pay someone else, on to the next one.

I really like Jagr but I probably wouldn't re-sign him at this point. He showed he definitely still has tremendous skill early in the season, and then he started to show his age not long thereafter. Same with Carle. I think his defensive ability is greatly underrated because of how passive/reactionary his approach is. He pretty much concedes possession of the puck to the other team once they've got it and just stays with his man. He doesn't have the physical skills to do more than that, but he's also really good at playing his style of D. He clogs lanes really well, and has a good stick. Still not the stuff of great defenders, but he does well enough.


Holmgren should perhaps move a little salary (where is certainly up for debate), give Wellwood and an AHL defenseman full time job, then go after Suter with Jagr, Carle and Pronger's money.


I really, really like the looks of this (on paper, at least):

Kimmo - Suter
Coburn - Grossmann
Mezsaros - Gustaffson/Manning/Bourdon

I think Kimmo is a 55 point defenseman again if he got paired with Suter. Cart before the horse here of course, who's to say where he ends up.
Is Kimmo playing for Detroit this upcoming season?

I'm glad Pronger is moving away, not that he's been talking to anyone since the injury but I think the further away he is, the team is better off. If they do make Giroux captain they don't need Pronger's shadow hovering over him and it will also make the defencemen accountable because he's not there to bail them out.

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06-01-2012, 02:37 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Is Kimmo playing for Detroit this upcoming season?

I'm glad Pronger is moving away, not that he's been talking to anyone since the injury but I think the further away he is, the team is better off. If they do make Giroux captain they don't need Pronger's shadow hovering over him and it will also make the defencemen accountable because he's not there to bail them out.
Of course, b/c it's in line with your specious belief he was a cancer....no proof whatsoever and Holmgren's denials don't count either

Quote:
PHILADELPHIA – Flyers players weren't told their captain would be in the house

They were going about their business of taking care of the Montreal Canadiens and wrapping up another playoff spot Saturday night when a break in the action late in the second period turned into an emotional lift.

The fans broke into a cheer, then stood.

Players on both teams tapped their sticks.

Up on the video board smiling was a shot of Chris Pronger, who was sitting in a Wells Fargo Center club box with Flyers chairman Ed Snider.

"I thought he owns the team now," winger Jaromir Jagr joked.

Pronger was done the season by November and around his teammates just a few times since because of post-concussion symptoms — once for a team Christmas party and several others for pre-practice visits.

"We didn't know he was here," Flyers center Claude Giroux said after a 4-1 Flyers victory. "Obviously, it's good to see the big man again. We're just hoping he's getting better."



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...1?csp=34sports

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06-01-2012, 05:57 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Is Kimmo playing for Detroit this upcoming season?

I'm glad Pronger is moving away, not that he's been talking to anyone since the injury but I think the further away he is, the team is better off. If they do make Giroux captain they don't need Pronger's shadow hovering over him and it will also make the defencemen accountable because he's not there to bail them out.
Do you really think that Giroux sweats the little crap and worries what Chris thinks if they made him captain? This kid is his own man and that is all I have to say about that. As far as the defencemen being held accountable because he is not there to bail them out. These guys are pros and once Chris was done for the year they moved on.

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06-01-2012, 06:03 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Is Kimmo playing for Detroit this upcoming season?

I'm glad Pronger is moving away, not that he's been talking to anyone since the injury but I think the further away he is, the team is better off. If they do make Giroux captain they don't need Pronger's shadow hovering over him and it will also make the defencemen accountable because he's not there to bail them out.
Why do you strive to make Pronger look like a locker room cancer? I just find it funny after you defend certain players to death. Do you really think Claude is going to feel pressured by a guy that may never play for the team again?

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06-01-2012, 09:18 PM
  #44
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Im confused. Can someone explain the quick demise of Pronger? I remember him taking a horrific stick to the eye but then didnt he play a couple games after that?

Was it the eye incident or did Pronger get concussed after he came back?


Concussion you think brain but could this injury be related to perhaps an optic nerve or complications from the eye injury ?

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06-01-2012, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Is Kimmo playing for Detroit this upcoming season?

I'm glad Pronger is moving away, not that he's been talking to anyone since the injury but I think the further away he is, the team is better off. If they do make Giroux captain they don't need Pronger's shadow hovering over him and it will also make the defencemen accountable because he's not there to bail them out.
Let a man get his dream on.

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06-01-2012, 09:37 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by rainrock View Post
Im confused. Can someone explain the quick demise of Pronger? I remember him taking a horrific stick to the eye but then didnt he play a couple games after that?

Was it the eye incident or did Pronger get concussed after he came back?


Concussion you think brain but could this injury be related to perhaps an optic nerve or complications from the eye injury ?
He suffered the eye injury in a game against Toronto but returned about two weeks later which was close to the initial time frame for a return. He played the next five games but felt more significant issues during a game against Winnipeg which was his last of the season.

In between, in a game against Phoenix, he took a hard hit from Hanzal ( http://video.flyers.nhl.com/videocen...PHI709&lang=en ). In mid-December he was ruled out for the balance of the season when concussion specialists said he had post-concussion symptoms.


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 06-01-2012 at 09:47 PM.
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06-01-2012, 10:05 PM
  #47
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Why do you strive to make Pronger look like a locker room cancer? I just find it funny after you defend certain players to death. Do you really think Claude is going to feel pressured by a guy that may never play for the team again?
This isn't the first locker room he divided though.

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06-01-2012, 10:14 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post

In between, in a game against Phoenix, he took a hard hit from Hanzal ( http://video.flyers.nhl.com/videocen...PHI709&lang=en ). In mid-December he was ruled out for the balance of the season when concussion specialists said he had post-concussion symptoms.
Thanks man. That hit did not look like it should cause post concussion syndrome imo.

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06-02-2012, 01:09 AM
  #49
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This isn't the first locker room he divided though.
Care to explain; or should I expect the same "reasoning" as the Jeff Carter thread?

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06-02-2012, 02:44 AM
  #50
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hey, hawks fan here in peace.

i was just wondering what you guys thought the effect on the dynamic of your team would be if Pronger did return (wearing the "C") and all. it seems to me (as an outsider) that you guys had a year where a bunch of young players came in, you had a decent playoff run, and Giroux kind of emerged as the heart of team in many ways. given that pronger has the personality that he does (and certainly a temperament much different than that of Giroux), in the unlikely event that he could return would his "re-entry" as captain be seamless or would it just mess with the current dynamic of your team?

i don't mean to engage in some dumb "would giroux be mad that pronger was captain" debate...i just mean that given the way the players have all gelled over the year (particularly considering the influx of younger players), would Pronger coming back interfere with that?

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