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Around the NHL (Part XXXVI): Playoffs!

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06-02-2012, 11:58 AM
  #726
Blueshirt Believer
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Rich Pillon certainly struck fear to ham sandwiches during his reign. Far more than either Bourque or Lidstrom.


Last edited by Blueshirt Believer: 06-02-2012 at 12:12 PM.
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06-02-2012, 01:16 PM
  #727
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I haven't really kept close watch on Bourque's career, but I remember that he got heavily frustrated by Tikkanen and Messier in the 1990 finals.

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06-02-2012, 01:23 PM
  #728
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http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...#ixzz1weUbOBcO

Looks like Vladimir Tarasenko is turning down big rubles to come over and play for the Blues next season.

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After much uncertainty about his his immediate future, Russian right winger Vladimir Tarasenko has informed the Blues that he's coming to the NHL for the 2012-13 season.
Quote:
Tarasenko, 20, who was the 16th overall pick in the 2010 NHL draft, has agreed to a three-year, entry-level contract with the Blues, but he has not actually signed the deal. The NHL's collective-bargaining agreement does not allow unsigned draft picks to sign with teams from 5 p.m. Eastern on June 1 through June 30.

Tarasenko has played the last four seasons in Russia's KHL, posting 52 goals and 48 assists in 176 games. This past year, he was traded to SKA St. Petersberg, where he ended the regular season and then netted 10 goals and six assists in 15 playoff games.
One of the reasons people tried to use in defense of not drafting him was the concern that he wouldn't come here. Guess that's out.

COUGHbigmistakeCOUGH

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06-02-2012, 01:28 PM
  #729
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Yeah, that McIlirath pick looked terrible when we drafted him and it still looks pretty bad today.

At least we didn't draft Joey Hishon, who's been out of hockey for 1 and 1/2 seasons.

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06-02-2012, 01:29 PM
  #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...#ixzz1weUbOBcO

Looks like Vladimir Tarasenko is turning down big rubles to come over and play for the Blues next season.





One of the reasons people tried to use in defense of not drafting him was the concern that he wouldn't come here. Guess that's out.

COUGHbigmistakeCOUGH
We'll see. Just because he's coming here doesn't mean there isn't a scare with Russians. Just because hes coming here now doesn't mean he won't bolt at the first sign that the Blues may send him down to the minors.

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06-02-2012, 01:30 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Yeah, that McIlirath pick looked terrible when we drafted him and it still looks pretty bad today.

At least we didn't draft Joey Hishon, who's been out of hockey for 1 and 1/2 seasons.
I still think McIlrath will be looked in a very positive light once he starts playing.

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06-02-2012, 01:32 PM
  #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post

Btw, the difference between the "dead puck era" scoring and the high flying 80's is about 19%, not 30%-40%. Splitting hairs, I know.
There are a couple of things wrong with your post.

1.) You have never run the numbers, you can eyeball them and know that 19% is a load of crap. However, since opinion can be verified through #'s, I ran the #'s.

2.) Selective reading as usual, picking and choosing what you read or want to read.

Is the difference not "as much as 30-40%" between era's? Of course it is. You are smart enough to know what I meant by that. The peak difference is 35.99%.

Splitting hairs I suppose.

Here are all the era's and the avg goal scoring.

"High Flying 80's":

79-80: 7.03, 85-86:7.94
80-81: 7.69, 86-87: 7.34
81-82: 8.03, 87-88: 7.43
82-83: 7.73, 88-89: 7.48
83-84: 7.89,
84-85: 7.77,

Avg Goals per year: 7.63 (76.33/10)

Non Dead Puck Era:

79-80: 7.03, 85-86:7.94 , 91-92: 6.96
80-81: 7.69, 86-87: 7.34, 92-93: 7.25
81-82: 8.03, 87-88: 7.43, 93-94: 6.48
82-83: 7.73, 88-89: 7.48
83-84: 7.89, 89-90: 7.37
84-85: 7.77, 90-91: 6.91

Avg Goals per year: 7.42 (111.3/15)

Modern Era:

94-95: 5.97, 00-01: 5.51, 06-07: 5.89
95-96: 6.29, 01-02: 5.24, 07-08: 5.57
96-97: 5.83, 02-03: 5.31, 08-09: 5.83
97-98: 5.28, 03-04: 5.14, 09-10: 5.68
98-99: 5.27, 04-05: n/a , 10-11: 5.59
99-00: 5.49, 05-06: 6.17, 11-12: 5.47

Avg Goals per year: 5.62 (95.53/17)

Drop in goals in modern era: 24.26%


True Dead Puck Era:

94-95: 5.97, 00-01: 5.51
95-96: 6.29, 01-02: 5.24
96-97: 5.83, 02-03: 5.31
97-98: 5.28, 03-04: 5.14
98-99: 5.27, 04-05: n/a
99-00: 5.49

Avg Goals per year: 5.533 (55.33/10)

Drop in goals in true dead puck era: 25.43%



Difference between Dead Puck Era and High Flying 80's:

7.63-5.53= 2.08/7.61 = 27.52 %


So yeah, your opinion is wrong.



I used 2 sites to verify Goals per avg.

Quant Hockey and
Drop Your Gloves

BTW between 2005-06 to Present there was a small difference between the 2 sites #'s. I used the higher ones in all cases. If I used the smaller #'s the difference would have been slightly greater. Between the 1980-2005 the numbers were all the same.

When I have time later I will use a 3rd site to verify.

BTW I am done..............

Edit: I originally had the peak difference between era's as "36% and change" it's really 35.99%


Last edited by Miamipuck: 06-02-2012 at 01:55 PM. Reason: Accuracy
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Old
06-02-2012, 01:33 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
I still think McIlrath will be looked in a very positive light once he starts playing.
This is what I'm going to hate when he gets his games in and makes mistakes. HF will hound on him like a wolf pack. I think by age 24-25 is when we can finally evaluate McIlrath as a player......

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06-02-2012, 01:34 PM
  #734
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We'll see. Just because he's coming here doesn't mean there isn't a scare with Russians. Just because hes coming here now doesn't mean he won't bolt at the first sign that the Blues may send him down to the minors.
I don't really find that objectionable. If I have a top six prospect, I'd prefer he play in the KHL than the AHL. There may be a scare with Russians, but he's never showed any hints of putting his ego before anything else before. He's a hardworking player. I also continue to believe that if there is one team that would never be affected by the "scare," it is this club.

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06-02-2012, 01:39 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I don't really find that objectionable. If I have a top six prospect, I'd prefer he play in the KHL than the AHL. There may be a scare with Russians, but he's never showed any hints of putting his ego before anything else before. He's a hardworking player. I also continue to believe that if there is one team that would never be affected by the "scare," it is this club.
fair enough. FWIW i was against both McIlrath AND Tarasenko

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06-02-2012, 01:42 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
This is what I'm going to hate when he gets his games in and makes mistakes. HF will hound on him like a wolf pack. I think by age 24-25 is when we can finally evaluate McIlrath as a player......
Are you kidding?

NHL defenseman should always be evaluated by what they do as 21 y/o kids. You can't use logic and say "wait till they mature", that doesn't fly here.

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06-02-2012, 01:43 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Miamipuck View Post
There are a couple of things wrong with your post.

.
Fair enough, But it makes your inital statement and my response incorrect. It still doesn't change the difference of scoring between Lidstrom/ Bourque because that was factored in years played averages. Remember Bourque only missed three years of the dead puck era. Lidstrom also played 4 proceeding and 7 years away from the dead puck era.

The adjusted PPG is still a ten percent difference.

Btw, 25-27% is a big difference between 30-40% or 19% for that matter.


Last edited by Blueshirt Believer: 06-02-2012 at 02:01 PM.
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06-02-2012, 02:54 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
I still think McIlrath will be looked in a very positive light once he starts playing.
The only complaint levied his way is that his skating is still average at best. Everything else, he's perfect: He's got a canon for a shot, positions himself well defensively, and when he lays a hit, you don't know if the medical trainer, the EMT, or the undertaker should come out to help the opposing player.

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06-02-2012, 03:00 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Bourque was just as good, if not better, than Lidstrom defensively. Lidstrom couldn't play in the corners like Bourque could. Lidstrom was great at defending against the rush, but wasn't nearly as effective against the forecheck. Bourque could defend against both equally as well. The difference was Bourque would take more chances.

Also, Bourque wasn't "a little more" offensively gifted. He was significantly more offensively gifted. In 60 more games, Bourque had 400 more points with 150 more goals. He also did it with a significantly lesser supporting cast.

Lidstrom should not be debated with Ray Bourque. Lidstrom should be more compared more to Denis Potvin.
Bourque played 15 seasons in an offensive era.

Lidstrom only caught the tail end.

You cant look at point totals. You have to look at where they ranked while they played.

IMO, Lidstrom's 7 Norris' and Conn Smythe trump Bourque's AS selections and Hart runner-ups

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06-02-2012, 03:18 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Bourque played 15 seasons in an offensive era.

Lidstrom only caught the tail end.

You cant look at point totals. You have to look at where they ranked while they played.

IMO, Lidstrom's 7 Norris' and Conn Smythe trump Bourque's AS selections and Hart runner-ups
Bourque won five Norris trophies against a much stiffer defensive competition(Leetch, Coffey, Macinnis, Chelios etc). Lidstrom competed against Pronger/Niedermayer. Lidstrom won his last Norris as a negative player. He won that Norris purely on reputation.

You also have to put into context the players he played against, and who he played with.

If we aren't going to go purely on stats.


Last edited by Blueshirt Believer: 06-02-2012 at 03:52 PM.
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06-02-2012, 04:01 PM
  #741
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Ok so not posting this as a hey look McIlrath is gonna be awesome he pounded this guy kinda thing. But I think it's hilarious how much Grbavac hassles and tries to get McIlrath to go while McIlrath just ignores him, and when they do drop the gloves Grbavac gets demolished.


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06-02-2012, 04:37 PM
  #742
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I have a question about Tarasenko, or rather our unwillingness to draft him. We never showed any fear in the "Russian factor" before and I don't believe we were ever burned by Russians. Why did that change with Tarasenko? Also if Tarasenko reaches his potential and plays here unless McIlrath becomes a Norris quality defenseman this was a mistake. We are in a lot better shape when it come to young forwards than defensemen.

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06-02-2012, 04:52 PM
  #743
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McIlrath needs to win a Norris now?

Come on.

The Rangers drafted McIlrath because they looked ahead and knew they'd need a big, physically dominating defenseman.

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06-02-2012, 04:55 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
McIlrath needs to win a Norris now?

Come on.

The Rangers drafted McIlrath because they looked ahead and knew they'd need a big, physically dominating defenseman.
I also think his shot could be a complete game changer on this team. I haven't seen enough of it to be sure though.

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06-02-2012, 04:55 PM
  #745
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
McIlrath needs to win a Norris now?

Come on.

The Rangers drafted McIlrath because they looked ahead and knew they'd need a big, physically dominating defenseman.
I definitely laughed at that as well.

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06-02-2012, 05:02 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
McIlrath needs to win a Norris now?

Come on.

The Rangers drafted McIlrath because they looked ahead and knew they'd need a big, physically dominating defenseman.
I said if Tarasenko reaches his potential. A very good forward>a very good defenseman on this team. That's why I said McIlrath needs be not only very good but amazing to make up the gap in need. And how many big, physically dominating D-men are out there? Is that as important as the 90s?

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06-02-2012, 05:30 PM
  #747
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I had dreams of McIlrath pastering Malkin and Kovalchuk in the boards.....

But I realized it was only a dream. I hope he learns a lot in Connecticut like Del Zotto and McDonagh.

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06-02-2012, 05:39 PM
  #748
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With Sauer's future in question, a player like McIlrath will definitely be needed on this team.

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06-02-2012, 05:59 PM
  #749
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fair enough. FWIW i was against both McIlrath AND Tarasenko
You get out of here then.



I was all on the Tarasenko wagon. Glad he came to NA, I would've looked like a huge tool if he didn't. At this point though, our organization is built well enough where I don't let drafts really bother me anymore.

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06-02-2012, 07:00 PM
  #750
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McDonagh--Girardi
Staal--Schultz
Del Zotto--McIlrath


Yes. I approve.

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