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Justin Schultz signs with Oilers

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06-01-2012, 04:59 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
He wanted him up but he did say in his season wrap up interviews that Smith still makes a lot of mistakes. He won't say he gets a roster spot for next year a lot of that is to push him, but there is a reason he didn't suit the kid up against Nashville.

Schultz was more consistent in College than Smith to answer the previous question, he produces without taking as many chances. I don't think he is as far along as Smith is now having played a couple years pro, but at a similar point I think Schultz is slightly farther along although he doesn't have the physical bite that Smith has and might not have the ultimate ceiling, but he has top 4 talent.
Anyone from Wisco will tell you that Schultz has the highest potential and is the most polished of all the D to come through there lately. Better than guys like Smith and Gardiner. If the wings could land him then in 2 or 3 years Smith and Schultz could be a legit top pairing.

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06-01-2012, 05:12 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Anyone from Wisco will tell you that Schultz has the highest potential and is the most polished of all the D to come through there lately. Better than guys like Smith and Gardiner. If the wings could land him then in 2 or 3 years Smith and Schultz could be a legit top pairing.
He's also a right handed shot, great match with smith...and canadian
Would be awesome if wings' could have such a pair, and they're still very young

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06-01-2012, 08:50 PM
  #103
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As of today, that's an outdated perspective. We currently have one player - Kronwall - who can rightfully demand top 4 minutes. Quincey, White, Smith, Ericsson, Kindl...all of those guys can as easily be a #5 as they could be a #3.

If Schultz can start talking to teams as of June 1st, then maybe there's a reason the Wings had Lidstrom announce his retirement yesterday. Can't for the life of me remember a time when a player of Nick's stature announced his retirement in the middle of the Stanley Cup Finals.
I think it's more likely that he clued someone in back in Sweden and then realized the cat would soon be out of the bag, so he had to go ahead and do it now.

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06-01-2012, 08:59 PM
  #104
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I think it's more likely that he clued someone in back in Sweden and then realized the cat would soon be out of the bag, so he had to go ahead and do it now.
Yeah, that Swedish article that was posted here yesterday morning might have been what would have let the cat out of the bag.

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06-02-2012, 03:37 AM
  #105
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I can see doing something like sending them Stuart's rights for Schultz's rights and then if we can sign Schultz we send more, whether it be roster player, prospect or pick. It'd be well worth it if we could sign him before July 1th.
This seems reasonable to me, but again, I am far from an expert in this field

By the way - would that be a so-called "conditional pick"?

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06-02-2012, 04:41 AM
  #106
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This seems reasonable to me, but again, I am far from an expert in this field

By the way - would that be a so-called "conditional pick"?
Yes.

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06-02-2012, 12:21 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by mindfly View Post
He's also a right handed shot, great match with smith...and canadian
Would be awesome if wings' could have such a pair, and they're still very young
If those 2 developed properly they could become Detroits Keith and Seabrook type pairing in the future.

The more I think about it, Schultz could be Detroits plan 1 to replace Stuart. He could play a solid 18 minutes a night and be used on the first PP as the right handed shot. Hes probably better than White in that regard and frankly if they are even close Detroit should just use him in order to entice him to come here.

What Dmen on the market could make more sense as a guy to play number 4/5 minutes but could also take over some PP time?

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06-02-2012, 01:07 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
If those 2 developed properly they could become Detroits Keith and Seabrook type pairing in the future.

The more I think about it, Schultz could be Detroits plan 1 to replace Stuart. He could play a solid 18 minutes a night and be used on the first PP as the right handed shot. Hes probably better than White in that regard and frankly if they are even close Detroit should just use him in order to entice him to come here.

What Dmen on the market could make more sense as a guy to play number 4/5 minutes but could also take over some PP time?
Yeah I've been pushing for the following:

Kronwall-Suter
Smith-Schultz
Ericsson-White

I think that would be an awesome set of d-men, we'd have our core set for the next 4-5 years while Ouellet, Backman, Sproul and Jensen finish their development. And I'm an Ericsson fan, he could PK a ton and White might do better with softer matchups on the third pairing at ES and he can pitch in on the PP if someone gets injured.

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06-02-2012, 01:09 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Yeah I've been pushing for the following:

Kronwall-Suter
Smith-Schultz
Ericsson-White

I think that would be an awesome set of d-men, we'd have our core set for the next 4-5 years while Ouellet, Backman, Sproul and Jensen finish their development. And I'm an Ericsson fan, he could PK a ton and White might do better with softer matchups on the third pairing at ES and he can pitch in on the PP if someone gets injured.
You're not worried about two pure rookies playing top 4 minutes with one of them having to play top PK minutes as well?

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06-02-2012, 02:06 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Anyone from Wisco will tell you that Schultz has the highest potential and is the most polished of all the D to come through there lately. Better than guys like Smith and Gardiner. If the wings could land him then in 2 or 3 years Smith and Schultz could be a legit top pairing.
I have heard those things but you left out the best one Ryan McDonagh. He didn't score as much as those guys, but he was hyped quite a bit by all the scouts and coaches. The Badgers have had some ridiculous talent on the back-end I wouldn't put anyone as really hugely distancing themselves from one another. Smith just plays a heavier game with bigger pluses, I think his potential is slightly better.

There is a reason a couple of them went in the first round and a couple of those guys did not. It speaks to certain measurements and things of that nature. Sure they might not max out and the draft position doesn't always tell the story until you evaluate them at this level and see like so many of the Wings late round sleepers. But comparing what they did at Wisconsin and then looking at what tools the posses I don't think Schultz has a higher Ceiling than Smith, but he is farther along in the process than Smith was. In terms of us the fact he is a right-hander makes him very attractive and would love to see at least one Badger pairing next year out of the triple S boys Smith/Suter/Schultz.

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06-02-2012, 02:10 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
You're not worried about two pure rookies playing top 4 minutes with one of them having to play top PK minutes as well?
I don't think either plays PK in this situation, I would be worried about it although chances are you could break camp with Ericsson/White in the top 4 and have them earn forward. The Rangers have done this with their young defenders. They both have the talent to do it. I think Kronwall and Smith have shown tremendous chemistry at times, I expect them to be paired together next year if Suter is a Wing. Schultz can earn his way up the lineup. I would not play them together though right off the bat.

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06-02-2012, 07:33 PM
  #112
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With the way things are looking right now the Wings can't afford a mindset of only playing guys with lots of NHL experience in key positions.

At some point you have to let rookies play higher than your fourth line\third D pairing. If you can sign a guy like Schultz, you do it. Sometimes you have to take a risk, and with their ridiculous capspace now is the time to do it.

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06-02-2012, 07:36 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
You're not worried about two pure rookies playing top 4 minutes with one of them having to play top PK minutes as well?
Heater my man keep up with the conversation. I've already said a pairing of Smith and Schultz playing 20 mins along with being the d pairing on the 2nd PP unit gives us the best shot at getting Schultz. I'm not saying it's gonna for a fact happen, just I think it is something he'd have to seriously consider.

As far as the PK goes, E, Suter and Kronner would eat up most of the minutes. I am pretty confident Smith or Schultz could PK the 1.5 to 2 mins necessary per game.

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06-02-2012, 07:41 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Heater my man keep up with the conversation. I've already said a pairing of Smith and Schultz playing 20 mins along with being the d pairing on the 2nd PP unit gives us the best shot at getting Schultz. I'm not saying it's gonna for a fact happen, just I think it is something he'd have to seriously consider.
Possible. I just don't think anyone really knows how good Schultz is going to be. I'm not sure promising him anything is the right thing for the team. We'll see - but the more likely scenario is that if a team like the Wings sign him, he'll play on the team early and get sent down a few times.

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As far as the PK goes, E, Suter and Kronner would eat up most of the minutes. I am pretty confident Smith or Schultz could PK the 1.5 to 2 mins necessary per game.
1.5-2 mins is a lot of time still. I think the Wings need 4 bonafide guys who we can rely on for the PK.

I really hope the Wings get Schultz, I just don't know if he'll be better than paying a little more for a more established player. I say that assuming he'll only go to a team if he's guaranteed icetime.

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06-02-2012, 08:05 PM
  #115
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1.5-2 mins is a lot of time still. I think the Wings need 4 bonafide guys who we can rely on for the PK.

I really hope the Wings get Schultz, I just don't know if he'll be better than paying a little more for a more established player. I say that assuming he'll only go to a team if he's guaranteed icetime.
That's a minute long shift on two PKs. Some nights, that's playing just as much as the rest of the penalty killers, which I think would be far too much for two rookies to handle on a consistent basis.

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06-02-2012, 08:09 PM
  #116
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I really hope the Wings get Schultz, I just don't know if he'll be better than paying a little more for a more established player. I say that assuming he'll only go to a team if he's guaranteed icetime.
At this point there's really no reason to think Kindl is better than him and if Quincey's better that small lead due to experience is going to evaporate in a hurry. Jake Gardiner seemed to do OK in Toronto and Schultz is considered every bit as good and possibly even a better talent than Gardiner.

There's speculation that Brian Burke is behind Schultz saying sayonara to the Ducks and that he's bound for Toronto. With Lidstrom's retirement I'd be shocked if Ken Holland doesn't go after a guy who would easily be our #1 prospect right away - ahead of Smith and Nyquist.

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06-02-2012, 08:13 PM
  #117
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The things being said in this thread are a bit over the top for a player who has played 0 nhl games, and is completely unproven at the next level.

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06-02-2012, 08:18 PM
  #118
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The things being said in this thread are a bit over the top for a player who has played 0 nhl games, and is completely unproven at the next level.
Why whine? The guy will cost $950k per year. It will cost nothing but $950,000 to sign him. Where's the risk? I personally think he's proven himself enough at the college level where he'd quickly smoke Quincey and Kindl. I hope we get a chance to find out.

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06-02-2012, 08:30 PM
  #119
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Why whine? The guy will cost $950k per year. It will cost nothing but $950,000 to sign him. Where's the risk? I personally think he's proven himself enough at the college level where he'd quickly smoke Quincey and Kindl. I hope we get a chance to find out.
Not whining, just saying why do people assume he will be ready for a top 4 role in the NHl right out of college? or in a PK role? Jack Johnson was a great defender in college and a higher draft pick. Did he struggle as a rookie? Yup. Brendan Smith had a great college career at Wisconsin, did Detroit feel even he was worthy to be a bottom pair guy his first year out of college? nope. Why should we just promise Justin Schulz an important role when he is completely unproven as a pro? I understand the appeal because of the potential and price, but guaranteeing minutes in an important role to a guy right out of college? Not sold on that idea.

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06-02-2012, 08:33 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by gowings4013 View Post
Not whining, just saying why do people assume he will be ready for a top 4 role in the NHl right out of college?
The glamour of potential is VERY strong around here. An unknown quantity is always sexier than a known.

Ranger fans were celebrating when they snagged Gilroy out of college. He was penciled into their top 6 for years to come. Of course dumping Gilroy was actually part of the solution to their blueline issues.

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06-02-2012, 08:34 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Why whine? The guy will cost $950k per year. It will cost nothing but $950,000 to sign him. Where's the risk? I personally think he's proven himself enough at the college level where he'd quickly smoke Quincey and Kindl. I hope we get a chance to find out.
Why 950k? If he's as good as you're saying a team like Edmonton could sign him for 3-5m per year and not really risk that much. He'll be a UFA, the rookie max doesn't apply I don't think.

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06-02-2012, 08:41 PM
  #122
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Why 950k? If he's as good as you're saying a team like Edmonton could sign him for 3-5m per year and not really risk that much. He'll be a UFA, the rookie max doesn't apply I don't think.
Yeah, I don't think so, either. Gilroy signed for $1.75 million a year didn't he?

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06-02-2012, 08:42 PM
  #123
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Why 950k? If he's as good as you're saying a team like Edmonton could sign him for 3-5m per year and not really risk that much. He'll be a UFA, the rookie max doesn't apply I don't think.
ELC and he was drafted in 2008. Every team would be capped as far as the maximum they could pay him. So where he will sign will be based on fit and playing time. Blake Wheeler signed with Boston for $875,000 and he was drafted in 2004.

EDIT: It looks like teams can offer bonuses. So that would be one way to sweeten the deal.

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06-02-2012, 08:46 PM
  #124
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The glamour of potential is VERY strong around here. An unknown quantity is always sexier than a known.
Especially when our known quantities are generally mediocre now that Lidstrom is gone. This isn't like the Rangers guaranteeing a kid a top 4 role when they already have a solid nucleus in place with their top guys- this is the Kronwall/White/Quincey/Ericsson/Kindl/Smith Wings we're talking about. We're hoping to get Suter, I love Smith's potential, and Kronwall's a definite top 4 guy, but there's really not a lot of standout talent as of today. I'm not saying Schultz is a Norris contender, but none of the other guys are close to that territory either.

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06-02-2012, 08:47 PM
  #125
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ELC and he was drafted in 2008. Every team would be capped as far as the maximum they could pay him. So where he will sign will be based on fit and playing time. Blake Wheeler signed with Boston for $875,000 and he was drafted in 2004.

EDIT: It looks like teams can offer bonuses. So that would be one way to sweeten the deal.
Crosby and Ovechkin and Stamkos etc... all had their first years have bonuses where their cap hits was actually closer to 5m.

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