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Gaborik out 5-6 months (Torn Rotator Cuff)

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Old
06-02-2012, 04:39 PM
  #401
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Gaborik scores most of his goals the way anyone scores most of their goals.

Around the net. And its not always pretty.

He needs to engage. He needs to move his feet. He needs to play confidently.

When he does that, he's hard to contain.

When he doesn't do that, he's frustrating.

When he's healthy we should expect him to do the things he needs to do to be successful.

Watch and contrast the games he does those things, to the games he doesn't. And see the difference. The Rangers attack is light years more effective when he's doing those things. When he isn't, the Rangers attack is not all that effective.

This is why they need their top player to be their top player.

Hopefully the rehab time isn't 6 months but closer to 5. If he's a part of this thing we need him and we need him at his best.

Its crazy that he played with this injury. Its commendable. He deserves recognition for it. And I'm sure the guys in the locker room appreciate it most of all.

But when he's back, he still needs to be more consistent.

It's frustrating to watch a guy dominate one game and the next look disengaged.

We have to figure out how we are going to score goals without our primary scorer.

http://www.snyrangersblog.com/2012/0...o-the-rangers/

If its not Parise, then its got to be a couple (more then one) of 20+ goal scorers. That fit the team identity. For a good price.

And when Gaborik returns, hopefully that depth helps alleviate the load on Gaborik.

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06-02-2012, 05:21 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
Jesus, there is so much wrong with this post, I don't even know where to start. I guess I'll just start with the concept that the first Rangers games you've started watching were these playoffs? lol.

He scores plenty of goals by going into high traffic areas. He is a guy that relies on space and uses his quickness both with and without the puck. Whether it's his hands, his sniping ability, or his ability to get into space.

Just because a guy engage in physical contact doesn't make him soft. Heck, any player that can go out there with a torn shoulder during the playoffs and score 40+ goals in the NHL while being a ppg both in assists and goals isn't soft in my book.

Maybe to you the only definition of soft is anyone who doesn't play like Ryan Callahan. However, a guy that is soft doesn't accomplish what Gaborik does. A guy that is soft ends up like Erik Christensen and bounces around from team to team as an enigma.
Bingo! Gaborik isn't soft, if he was a soft player he wouldn't be able to score +40 goals on this team. Not laying out big hits isn't the same as being soft.

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06-02-2012, 05:40 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
I don't think I've ever seen you post a non-Gaborik related post in these message boards. You do know there's 19 other players+healthy scratches and prospects, right?
stalker

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06-02-2012, 05:48 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
Jesus, there is so much wrong with this post, I don't even know where to start. I guess I'll just start with the concept that the first Rangers games you've started watching were these playoffs? lol.

He scores plenty of goals by going into high traffic areas. He is a guy that relies on space and uses his quickness both with and without the puck. Whether it's his hands, his sniping ability, or his ability to get into space.

Just because a guy engage in physical contact doesn't make him soft. Heck, any player that can go out there with a torn shoulder during the playoffs and score 40+ goals in the NHL while being a ppg both in assists and goals isn't soft in my book.

Maybe to you the only definition of soft is anyone who doesn't play like Ryan Callahan. However, a guy that is soft doesn't accomplish what Gaborik does. A guy that is soft ends up like Erik Christensen and bounces around from team to team as an enigma.
We apparently have different definitions of soft.

Where did I ever say he doesn't go into the traffic areas to score goals?

This isn't 1985. Defensemen can't get away with nearly as much as they uses to in front of the net.

I'm glad he goes to the front of the net, but I'm not going to rant and rave and applaud him for doing something every player is expected to do.

I'm talking about when he has the puck anywhere along the boards or anywhere close to the boards. He will simply ditch the puck every time, whether it's a good pass to a teammate or a horrible costly turnover. I have not seen him once in three years take a bump along the wall and still hold onto the puck. Tortorella is huge on "eating the puck" instead of risking a turnover if there's no viable passing option. Gaborik NEVER does this, because bracing himself for the hit, even if it's from a 5'6" Stephen Gionta, is more important to him than the puck.

Thats my definition of soft.

I never said he was bad.

I never said he doesn't go to traffic areas.

I actually applauded him for playing through the injury. That's certainly respectable. But, again, if you can't label a guy who plays the way Gaborik does along the boards as SOFT, then I dare you to find a single player in the league who is.

Most of this is irrelevant anyway.
The bottom line is exactly what SSM has been saying. We cannot continue to rely on him the way we have been for the past three years. When he is healthy, he's not the type of player who can dominate the puck and take over a game. That's not an attack on him. It's just the type of player he is. He's an opportunistic finisher, and one of the best. But if we're to be successful when he is in the lineup, we simply need more than one threat to put the puck in the net. And the other part of it is that he's always hurt! Either he's going to be out of the lineup with an injury, or he's going to be playing at 70% because he's hurt. Neither scenario is a positive one for the Rangers. I'm glad he's got the will power to play through a painful injury and try his best, but a Gaborik who can't shoot (shoulder) or doesnt have that explosive first step (lower body) is not going to help us accomplish what we're trying to accomplish. As far as I see it, that's not debatable.

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06-02-2012, 06:08 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
We apparently have different definitions of soft.

Where did I ever say he doesn't go into the traffic areas to score goals?

This isn't 1985. Defensemen can't get away with nearly as much as they uses to in front of the net.

I'm glad he goes to the front of the net, but I'm not going to rant and rave and applaud him for doing something every player is expected to do.

I'm talking about when he has the puck anywhere along the boards or anywhere close to the boards. He will simply ditch the puck every time, whether it's a good pass to a teammate or a horrible costly turnover. I have not seen him once in three years take a bump along the wall and still hold onto the puck. Tortorella is huge on "eating the puck" instead of risking a turnover if there's no viable passing option. Gaborik NEVER does this, because bracing himself for the hit, even if it's from a 5'6" Stephen Gionta, is more important to him than the puck.

Thats my definition of soft.

I never said he was bad.

I never said he doesn't go to traffic areas.

I actually applauded him for playing through the injury. That's certainly respectable. But, again, if you can't label a guy who plays the way Gaborik does along the boards as SOFT, then I dare you to find a single player in the league who is.

Most of this is irrelevant anyway.
The bottom line is exactly what SSM has been saying. We cannot continue to rely on him the way we have been for the past three years. When he is healthy, he's not the type of player who can dominate the puck and take over a game. That's not an attack on him. It's just the type of player he is. He's an opportunistic finisher, and one of the best. But if we're to be successful when he is in the lineup, we simply need more than one threat to put the puck in the net. And the other part of it is that he's always hurt! Either he's going to be out of the lineup with an injury, or he's going to be playing at 70% because he's hurt. Neither scenario is a positive one for the Rangers. I'm glad he's got the will power to play through a painful injury and try his best, but a Gaborik who can't shoot (shoulder) or doesnt have that explosive first step (lower body) is not going to help us accomplish what we're trying to accomplish. As far as I see it, that's not debatable.
You're definition of soft is because he doesn't take bumps along the boards and the concept that he's always hurt despite him playing full seasons twice in three years here? Lol, okay. I think we're done here.

I guess Callahan is also soft since Gaby has played more games than him over the last 3 years

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06-02-2012, 06:13 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Deathdealer View Post
stalker
Good to know that you can see yourself that there is no point in arguing against my claim.

Perhaps you should post the OT winner from Game 4 in 2011 again. I think some people may have missed it.

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06-02-2012, 06:16 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
You're definition of soft is because he doesn't take bumps along the boards and the concept that he's always hurt despite him playing full seasons twice in three years here? Lol, okay. I think we're done here.

I guess Callahan is also soft since Gaby has played more games than him over the last 3 years
If that's what you got out of my post, you have severe reading comprehension issues.

However, I think the more likely conclusion is that you've been proven wrong and are reaching to avoid looking even more foolish.

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06-02-2012, 06:37 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
If that's what you got out of my post, you have severe reading comprehension issues.

However, I think the more likely conclusion is that you've been proven wrong and are reaching to avoid looking even more foolish.
Lol, go back and read how many people disagree with you, then get back to me about being proven wrong. Then read the people that agree with you and see the company you're in.

You want to talk about how he scores his goals or what he does with the puck, which has nothing to do with being soft or not. That is completely irrelevant. He's not a grinder, nor should he ever play like one. That doesn't make him soft. That's what separates him from guys that don't have natural offensive abilities. Seriously, there is a reason why he is nearly a ppg player and a guy that has as many assists as goals most years.

Rarely do other teams even try to pound Gaborik. You want to know why? Because he's elusive and the other teams know that if they attempt it and miss, he's gone. That's why you see highlight films of him open in the slot and in front of the net.

You're right. This isn't 1985. The rules have changed. Only problem with your argument is that they changed after the lockout and Gaby at the age of 20 and 21 prior to that twice scored 30 goals, including a postseason run in which he had 17 points in 18 games at a time where you could get away with murder and the trap was prevalent. Was he soft back then too?

No educated hockey person in their right mind wants to see Gaborik have the puck along the boards and the opposition would love to see him there all game long cycling. There's a reason why a guy like him doesn't do those things often. He's not supposed to. That doesn't make him soft. That's just not his job. His job is to score 40+ goals for this team, which he does.


By Marian Gaborik's standards he had a bad postseason. I'd guess about 90% of the NHL players would love to have 11 playoff points in 20 games with a torn rotator cuff. If you call that soft, then fine, so be it.

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06-02-2012, 07:03 PM
  #409
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The man played the bulk of the postseason with a bum shoulder and didn't say a word about it. Kudos to Gabby for playing through it. Soft is the LAST word people should be using to describe him right now.

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06-02-2012, 07:14 PM
  #410
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I guess i misjudged gabby but now sather has to do something to replace him. I mean if he misses time it will take more time for him to get back in the groove

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06-02-2012, 07:16 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
WHO THE **** CALLED HIM THAT.

I NEVER called him that. Get your ****ing facts straight.


Lots of people called him that. I never said it was you that said it. The post wasnt directed at you. Calling Gaborik names like 'Maryjane' and 'Soft lazy Euro' is hating on a player. I'm not sure how you can say that there are no Gaborik haters on these boards (which is what you said in the original post you quoted) when they are everywhere.


If my memory serves me right the only player you picked on was MDZ.

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06-02-2012, 07:49 PM
  #412
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I don't think he's soft. Fragile/injury prone yes. Gets disengaged yes. Needs to move his feet more sometimes yes.

Not soft.

But again, when he's healthy he needs to do those things. The team counts on him to be a top player.

This injury is really frustrating. Its not his fault. Its just frustrating. Because we had a real chance to improve and get over that hump next year and get beyond where we got this season. We don't know if he will be 100% himself at any point next season.

Hope they can address this concern in a smart way.

Hopefully he will get hot and be himself by playoffs. At the right time.

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06-02-2012, 10:43 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Good to know that you can see yourself that there is no point in arguing against my claim.

Perhaps you should post the OT winner from Game 4 in 2011 again. I think some people may have missed it.
or you could post the game 6 ot loss to the devils where failborik is danceing on top of the puck right befor they score, i like that 1 more

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06-02-2012, 10:46 PM
  #414
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or you could post the game 6 ot loss to the devils where failborik is danceing on top of the puck right befor they score, i like that 1 more
Right. Or how about Girardi being behind the net? Or how about Richards sitting in the net and not giving any effort in clearing the puck out of the crease? Besides Gaborik; Hagelin, Richards, McD and Girardi were all on the ice. At least try to make an argument. You're failing really hard at doing it.

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06-03-2012, 12:04 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Right. Or how about Girardi being behind the net? Or how about Richards sitting in the net and not giving any effort in clearing the puck out of the crease? Besides Gaborik; Hagelin, Richards, McD and Girardi were all on the ice. At least try to make an argument. You're failing really hard at doing it.
failing at what? gabby sucks. cant help it you have a man crush on a soft player.

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06-03-2012, 12:05 AM
  #416
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So when is he having the surgery? Sooner he gets the procedure done the sooner he's back on the ice.

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06-03-2012, 12:07 AM
  #417
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failing at what? gabby sucks. cant help it you have a man crush on a soft player.
If you think Gaborik is the reason the Rangers lost, I don't know what to tell you.

And I wasn't happy with his performance. Go check the old threads. But he was paying with an injury where you'd have trouble holding the hockey stick. If the Rangers won the Cup, he wouldn't be able to lift it.

And there you go again, further proving my knit that you only post things related to Gaborik. Can't help if you've got an irrational hatred towards him.

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06-03-2012, 12:16 AM
  #418
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failing at what? gabby sucks. cant help it you have a man crush on a soft player.
Soft? I'd like to see you get out of bed with a torn labrum, forget playing 16 playoff games with one.

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06-03-2012, 01:02 AM
  #419
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Lol, go back and read how many people disagree with you, then get back to me about being proven wrong. Then read the people that agree with you and see the company you're in.

You want to talk about how he scores his goals or what he does with the puck, which has nothing to do with being soft or not. That is completely irrelevant. He's not a grinder, nor should he ever play like one. That doesn't make him soft. That's what separates him from guys that don't have natural offensive abilities. Seriously, there is a reason why he is nearly a ppg player and a guy that has as many assists as goals most years.

Rarely do other teams even try to pound Gaborik. You want to know why? Because he's elusive and the other teams know that if they attempt it and miss, he's gone. That's why you see highlight films of him open in the slot and in front of the net.

You're right. This isn't 1985. The rules have changed. Only problem with your argument is that they changed after the lockout and Gaby at the age of 20 and 21 prior to that twice scored 30 goals, including a postseason run in which he had 17 points in 18 games at a time where you could get away with murder and the trap was prevalent. Was he soft back then too?

No educated hockey person in their right mind wants to see Gaborik have the puck along the boards and the opposition would love to see him there all game long cycling. There's a reason why a guy like him doesn't do those things often. He's not supposed to. That doesn't make him soft. That's just not his job. His job is to score 40+ goals for this team, which he does.


By Marian Gaborik's standards he had a bad postseason. I'd guess about 90% of the NHL players would love to have 11 playoff points in 20 games with a torn rotator cuff. If you call that soft, then fine, so be it.
"That's not his job?"

Dead wrong. Part of his job is to not turn the puck over. Torts preaches "eating the puck" instead of turning it over when there's no clear passing option. Gaborik simply doesn't do this. Ever. He also doesn't use his body to protect the puck. If there's a body closing in on him, he gets rid of the puck like its a grenade. You're telling me because he's not a grinder, he can be careless with the puck and has the right to give it up and turn it over instead of taking a bump and holding onto it for a second more? What a horribly shallow argument.

And again, you've avoided the actual points of my argument and nitpicked irrelevant semantics while giving me random stats from 8 years ago, albeit impressive ones. But that was never in question. Gaborik is one of the best pure finishers in the game, and when he's healthy, his first few steps are unparalleled. The issue is that we can't rely on him. It's a three-fold issue. He's either injured and out of the lineup(1), playing at less than full ability because he's injured(2), or playing a cautious, tentative game because he's afraid of getting injured(3). The best we can hope for is option 3 because he can still score goals and produce at a high level because he's so talented. But he's just not a guy who we can rely on to carry the bulk of the offensive load. He's simply not that type of player. He's one of the best complementary players there are, WHEN he's 100%, but that is not nearly often enough to even be relied on as that great complementary player. For this reason, we need to add both primary and secondary scoring, and frankly, Gaborik's 7.5 million dollar cap-hit is prohibitive when it comes to the task of acquiring those players.

If you are claiming Gaborik isn't a soft player, then please name me a NHL player who IS soft.

You have to draw the line somewhere. Unless your argument hinges on the notion that there is not a single "soft" player in the NHL.

Gaborik is a goal-scorer. I'm not expecting him to play like Dustin Brown or Alex Ovechkin. But he doesn't get excused from doing the little things that every Ranger is required to do.

Torts benched him for not fully committing to blocking a shot. He half-heartedly skated into the shooting lane instead of actually attempting to block it with a sense of urgency, like the rest of his teammates. Tortorella called him out on it.

Torts benched him for swinging around the defensive zone and gliding past the play instead of stopping and starting (which takes more energy and effort).

Tortorella benched him for not being engaged and playing a passive, disinterested game and coughing up the puck at the first sign of pressure.

Tortorella sees these things from time to time. But because a few posters here disagree with me, that's your argument that I'm off base?

Allow me to spell it out more simply for you so that your next reply can save us some time.

Your mission:

If you're going to continue to claim Gaborik isn't soft, then please name me a NHL player who IS soft. This will help me gain a frame or reference on what you define as "soft."

Thank you.


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06-03-2012, 04:55 AM
  #420
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And people STILL call him soft? Gaborik is the definition of a NYR, i'm proud to have him on the team.

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06-03-2012, 10:56 AM
  #421
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25 playoff games for us, he has 6g-13points

not exactly lighting it up for a 7.5 mill guy

give me a brad richards any day over gaby, richards might hover at 60p during the season but hes clutch, something gaby isn't

we need our stars to be more like cally, nash/richards would be so much better

think about it, nash can get 40g without any stars, richards is a playmaker, nash is also a big body, these two would be insane on the same line

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06-03-2012, 10:58 AM
  #422
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it comes down to this, when its a big game 7, do you really have faith in gaby, cause i don't

show me richards big game numbers, nuff said

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06-03-2012, 11:23 AM
  #423
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
"That's not his job?"

Dead wrong. Part of his job is to not turn the puck over. Torts preaches "eating the puck" instead of turning it over when there's no clear passing option. Gaborik simply doesn't do this. Ever. He also doesn't use his body to protect the puck. If there's a body closing in on him, he gets rid of the puck like its a grenade. You're telling me because he's not a grinder, he can be careless with the puck and has the right to give it up and turn it over instead of taking a bump and holding onto it for a second more? What a horribly shallow argument.

And again, you've avoided the actual points of my argument and nitpicked irrelevant semantics while giving me random stats from 8 years ago, albeit impressive ones. But that was never in question. Gaborik is one of the best pure finishers in the game, and when he's healthy, his first few steps are unparalleled. The issue is that we can't rely on him. It's a three-fold issue. He's either injured and out of the lineup(1), playing at less than full ability because he's injured(2), or playing a cautious, tentative game because he's afraid of getting injured(3). The best we can hope for is option 3 because he can still score goals and produce at a high level because he's so talented. But he's just not a guy who we can rely on to carry the bulk of the offensive load. He's simply not that type of player. He's one of the best complementary players there are, WHEN he's 100%, but that is not nearly often enough to even be relied on as that great complementary player. For this reason, we need to add both primary and secondary scoring, and frankly, Gaborik's 7.5 million dollar cap-hit is prohibitive when it comes to the task of acquiring those players.

If you are claiming Gaborik isn't a soft player, then please name me a NHL player who IS soft.

You have to draw the line somewhere. Unless your argument hinges on the notion that there is not a single "soft" player in the NHL.

Gaborik is a goal-scorer. I'm not expecting him to play like Dustin Brown or Alex Ovechkin. But he doesn't get excused from doing the little things that every Ranger is required to do.

Torts benched him for not fully committing to blocking a shot. He half-heartedly skated into the shooting lane instead of actually attempting to block it with a sense of urgency, like the rest of his teammates. Tortorella called him out on it.

Torts benched him for swinging around the defensive zone and gliding past the play instead of stopping and starting (which takes more energy and effort).

Tortorella benched him for not being engaged and playing a passive, disinterested game and coughing up the puck at the first sign of pressure.

Tortorella sees these things from time to time. But because a few posters here disagree with me, that's your argument that I'm off base?

Allow me to spell it out more simply for you so that your next reply can save us some time.

Your mission:

If you're going to continue to claim Gaborik isn't soft, then please name me a NHL player who IS soft. This will help me gain a frame or reference on what you define as "soft."

Thank you.
I already did name you one. Read much? Erik Christensen. Soft players bounce around the league because they can't perform at the NHL level consistently despite having obvious abilities. They are boys among men. Gaborik isn't. He drives to the net both with and without the puck, takes on teh opposition, apparently plays with a major injury, and is the focus on the opposition each and every game he plays.

Gaborik is not a power forward. He's a sniper. There are a TON of people here saying Gaborik isn't soft. It's not my fault you can't see the truth. Good luck with all that.

Tortorella has benched a lot of players for their poor play. Does it mean everyone that he does is soft? He's benched Callahan in the past, Dubinsky, Prust, Boyle, etc for making dumb decisions. Has nothing to do with being soft or not.Get a grip guy. You're drawing parallels that are laughable at best.

I'm telling you his job isn't to cycle the puck. His job is to be open when the cycle is finished and be set up for a scoring oportunity. And heck, he did plenty of cycling behind the goal this past year. He also did a ton of back checking this year as well.

You're calling my argument shallow when your main point is that Gaborik is soft because he doesn't needlessly hold onto a puck to take crushing hits? So in other words, Gaborik is just like every other sniper in the league? It's getting comical.

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06-03-2012, 11:53 AM
  #424
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Originally Posted by Keirik View Post
I already did name you one. Read much? Erik Christensen. Soft players bounce around the league because they can't perform at the NHL level consistently despite having obvious abilities. They are boys among men. Gaborik isn't. He drives to the net both with and without the puck, takes on teh opposition, apparently plays with a major injury, and is the focus on the opposition each and every game he plays.

Gaborik is not a power forward. He's a sniper. There are a TON of people here saying Gaborik isn't soft. It's not my fault you can't see the truth. Good luck with all that.

Tortorella has benched a lot of players for their poor play. Does it mean everyone that he does is soft? He's benched Callahan in the past, Dubinsky, Prust, Boyle, etc for making dumb decisions. Has nothing to do with being soft or not.Get a grip guy. You're drawing parallels that are laughable at best.

I'm telling you his job isn't to cycle the puck. His job is to be open when the cycle is finished and be set up for a scoring oportunity. And heck, he did plenty of cycling behind the goal this past year. He also did a ton of back checking this year as well.

You're calling my argument shallow when your main point is that Gaborik is soft because he doesn't needlessly hold onto a puck to take crushing hits? So in other words, Gaborik is just like every other sniper in the league? It's getting comical.
Twist and shout.

Game. Set. Match.

We're done here.

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06-03-2012, 04:48 PM
  #425
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Gaborik is soft as hell on the puck.

Gaborik is not a soft player.

I think we ought to differentiate between the two.

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