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Leafs will take the best player available with the 5th overal pick in the 2012 draft

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Old
06-02-2012, 12:19 PM
  #51
Smif
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Ottawa tried to draft Kadri instead of Cowen, they don't even agree with you.
Most lists had Kadri between 8-11 and Cowen 6-8.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=2009+n...ient=firefox-a

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06-02-2012, 12:22 PM
  #52
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Opposed to picking the Worse player available?

Joking, regardless, my wants (aside from Yakupov) would be Galchenyuk first, Forsberg 2nd, Murray 3rd and Grigorenko 4th

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06-02-2012, 12:33 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smif View Post
Most lists had Kadri between 8-11 and Cowen 6-8.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=2009+n...ient=firefox-a
Those are random people. Who knows who does those mock drafts? Ottawa wanted Kadri. Burke picked him instead. The fact that an NHL team wanted him, then obviously the people making these lists are a bit off.

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Old
06-02-2012, 06:24 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Opposed to picking the Worse player available?

Joking, regardless, my wants (aside from Yakupov) would be Galchenyuk first, Forsberg 2nd, Murray 3rd and Grigorenko 4th
that would be my preference as well i think girorenko is a bigger risk long term than galachenyuk. I dont think either will be ready for a year probably 2 but galachenyuk just fits our team better hopefully we can get him but foresberg wouldnt upset me at all

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Old
06-02-2012, 06:41 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Ottawa tried to draft Kadri instead of Cowen, they don't even agree with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Those are random people. Who knows who does those mock drafts? Ottawa wanted Kadri. Burke picked him instead. The fact that an NHL team wanted him, then obviously the people making these lists are a bit off.
Re: the Sens wanting Kadri over Cowen, it's based 100% on this:



It's possible that Murray is telling the truth here, and that he actually wants Kadri. It's also possible he was BSing. He at first seems interested in trading up, then Burke says "we're taking Kadri," and Murray doesn't mention trading up again. It could easily be the case that Murray wanted Cowen all along, and was relieved when Burke said "we're taking Kadri," because it meant Cowen would likely fall to 9th, so he didn't need to trade up. You can't trust what GMs tell each other, they're often manoeuvring and being deceptive. For example, look at McPhee trying to squeeze a free pick out of Boston in the 2006 draft (watch from 1:40 to 6:00):



McPhee tells Boston he'd be equally happy with either Backstrom or Kessel at 4th overall, and says he's open to letting them trade up from 5th to 4th. In reality he doesn't see Backstrom and Kessel as equal at all, he actually wants Backstrom, but he's not about to tell Boston that. He'll only trade down if Boston are going to take Kessel, if they want Backstrom he won't do it, which is what ends up happening, but it's a perfect example of how GMs can be sneaky and not show their true intentions towards one another.

Did Ottawa actually want Kadri over Cowen? Maybe, maybe not, we'll likely never know. It's a bit naive to be 100% sure that Murray is telling the truth in that first clip I posted, though. He could have been telling the truth, or he could just as easily have been lying.


Last edited by ponder: 06-02-2012 at 06:48 PM.
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Old
06-02-2012, 06:53 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post



McPhee tells Boston he'd be equally happy with either Backstrom or Kessel at 4th overall, and says he's open to letting them trade up from 5th to 4th. In reality he doesn't see Backstrom and Kessel as equal at all, he actually wants Backstrom, but he's not about to tell Boston that. He'll only trade down if Boston are going to take Kessel, if they want Backstrom he won't do it, which is what ends up happening, but it's a perfect example of how GMs can be sneaky and not show their true intentions towards one another.
Wow, thanks for posting this video! I love watching this sort of stuff, great stuff.

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Old
06-02-2012, 06:58 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Re: the Sens wanting Kadri over Cowen, it's based 100% on this:



It's possible that Murray is telling the truth here, and that he actually wants Kadri. It's also possible he was BSing. He at first seems interested in trading up, then Burke says "we're taking Kadri," and Murray doesn't mention trading up again. It could easily be the case that Murray wanted Cowen all along, and was relieved when Burke said "we're taking Kadri," because it meant Cowen would likely fall to 9th, so he didn't need to trade up. You can't trust what GMs tell each other, they're often manoeuvring and being deceptive. For example, look at McPhee here in the 2006 draft (watch from 1:40 to 6:00):



McPhee tells Boston he'd be equally happy with either Backstrom or Kessel at 4th overall, and says he's open to letting them trade up from 5th to 4th. In reality he doesn't see Backstrom and Kessel as equal at all, he actually wants Backstrom, but he's not about to tell Boston that. He'll only trade down if Boston are going to take Kessel, if they want Backstrom he won't do it, which is what ends up happening, but it's a perfect example of how GMs can be sneaky and not show their true intentions towards one another.

Did Ottawa actually want Kadri over Cowen? Maybe, maybe not, we'll likely never know. It's a bit naive to be 100% sure that Murray is telling the truth in that first clip I posted, though. He could have been telling the truth, or he could just as easily have been lying.
Its not like the Leafs and Sens were only 1 pick apart. Even of we passed on Cowen the Stars could have taken him with the next pick.

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Old
06-02-2012, 07:16 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Rockinz View Post
reading between the lines a bit... Looks like if Murray would be at #5 they are all over him.

3 weeks and we will see!
I really don't understand what gives you that impression.

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06-02-2012, 07:20 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Re: the Sens wanting Kadri over Cowen, it's based 100% on this:



It's possible that Murray is telling the truth here, and that he actually wants Kadri. It's also possible he was BSing. He at first seems interested in trading up, then Burke says "we're taking Kadri," and Murray doesn't mention trading up again. It could easily be the case that Murray wanted Cowen all along, and was relieved when Burke said "we're taking Kadri," because it meant Cowen would likely fall to 9th, so he didn't need to trade up. You can't trust what GMs tell each other, they're often manoeuvring and being deceptive. For example, look at McPhee trying to squeeze a free pick out of Boston in the 2006 draft (watch from 1:40 to 6:00):



McPhee tells Boston he'd be equally happy with either Backstrom or Kessel at 4th overall, and says he's open to letting them trade up from 5th to 4th. In reality he doesn't see Backstrom and Kessel as equal at all, he actually wants Backstrom, but he's not about to tell Boston that. He'll only trade down if Boston are going to take Kessel, if they want Backstrom he won't do it, which is what ends up happening, but it's a perfect example of how GMs can be sneaky and not show their true intentions towards one another.

Did Ottawa actually want Kadri over Cowen? Maybe, maybe not, we'll likely never know. It's a bit naive to be 100% sure that Murray is telling the truth in that first clip I posted, though. He could have been telling the truth, or he could just as easily have been lying.
Burke didn't really give him a chance to trade up, to be fair. Burke seemed quite sure that Murray was interested in Kadri and im sure he has a better idea then any of us on here.

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06-02-2012, 07:38 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by TimeZone View Post
Burke didn't really give him a chance to trade up, to be fair. Burke seemed quite sure that Murray was interested in Kadri and im sure he has a better idea then any of us on here.
In the behind the draft segment for this draft it clears this up.

Burke had talked with a few teams about the possibility of the leafs trading down but they would have to agree not to take the guy the Leafs were interested in.

So when you see Burke say were taking Kadri Murray knows he can't take Kadri if he moves up.

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Old
06-03-2012, 02:25 AM
  #61
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Even if Murray somehow makes it past Blue Jackets, I would bet the Isles don't let him drop to 5.

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06-03-2012, 02:29 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
1. Yakupov
2.-5. any order: Grigorenko-Galchenyuk-Forsberg-Defender

I'm not aware there is a scientific (objective) method to say who is BPA, but I'd say there is little if any difference in the subjective BPA between group 2 above. Intangibles enable you to chose anyone of them and claim they are BPA on your list.

Murray, Rielly, Reinhart, maybe even Trouba could be argued for that top defender selection, for various reasons.
It'd probably be Rielly, if he hadn't spent the entire year on the shelf.

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06-03-2012, 02:37 AM
  #63
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And here I thought the Leafs would try to draft the second best player available.

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Old
06-03-2012, 03:19 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Re: the Sens wanting Kadri over Cowen, it's based 100% on this:



It's possible that Murray is telling the truth here, and that he actually wants Kadri. It's also possible he was BSing. He at first seems interested in trading up, then Burke says "we're taking Kadri," and Murray doesn't mention trading up again. It could easily be the case that Murray wanted Cowen all along, and was relieved when Burke said "we're taking Kadri," because it meant Cowen would likely fall to 9th, so he didn't need to trade up. You can't trust what GMs tell each other, they're often manoeuvring and being deceptive. For example, look at McPhee trying to squeeze a free pick out of Boston in the 2006 draft (watch from 1:40 to 6:00):



McPhee tells Boston he'd be equally happy with either Backstrom or Kessel at 4th overall, and says he's open to letting them trade up from 5th to 4th. In reality he doesn't see Backstrom and Kessel as equal at all, he actually wants Backstrom, but he's not about to tell Boston that. He'll only trade down if Boston are going to take Kessel, if they want Backstrom he won't do it, which is what ends up happening, but it's a perfect example of how GMs can be sneaky and not show their true intentions towards one another.

Did Ottawa actually want Kadri over Cowen? Maybe, maybe not, we'll likely never know. It's a bit naive to be 100% sure that Murray is telling the truth in that first clip I posted, though. He could have been telling the truth, or he could just as easily have been lying.
wow that was an awesome video!! wish they did this for the leafs!!!

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Old
06-03-2012, 03:25 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Kessely Snipes View Post
Even if Murray somehow makes it past Blue Jackets, I would bet the Isles don't let him drop to 5.
I'll bet the Islanders trade down.

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Old
06-03-2012, 10:09 AM
  #66
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If Alex is available take him but if Murray's available take him

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Old
06-03-2012, 10:25 AM
  #67
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I appreciate this, means you are a stand up guy, I wanted Schenn, what do I know, Karlsson, Del Zotto, Myers....
I still want Schenn.....

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Old
06-03-2012, 11:49 AM
  #68
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Almost always in the NHL the team picks the BPA in the first round. It's starting in the later rounds that you begin to look more for size/position/speed etc. This isn't like football where they often pick positional players starting very early in the first round.

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Old
06-03-2012, 12:09 PM
  #69
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I don't know about u guys, but if the 2009 were to be held today and I had an option of choosing between one of Cowen or Kadri, I had take everytime. The guy has enormous amount of skill-set and in a very little time, people will see those skilled being worked come next season.

I will be sad to see Kadri leave this organization regardless of the return if he was to be traded. H e is undoubtedly one of my fav player in the league.

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Old
06-03-2012, 12:14 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Re: the Sens wanting Kadri over Cowen, it's based 100% on this:



It's possible that Murray is telling the truth here, and that he actually wants Kadri. It's also possible he was BSing. He at first seems interested in trading up, then Burke says "we're taking Kadri," and Murray doesn't mention trading up again. It could easily be the case that Murray wanted Cowen all along, and was relieved when Burke said "we're taking Kadri," because it meant Cowen would likely fall to 9th, so he didn't need to trade up. You can't trust what GMs tell each other, they're often manoeuvring and being deceptive. For example, look at McPhee trying to squeeze a free pick out of Boston in the 2006 draft (watch from 1:40 to 6:00):



McPhee tells Boston he'd be equally happy with either Backstrom or Kessel at 4th overall, and says he's open to letting them trade up from 5th to 4th. In reality he doesn't see Backstrom and Kessel as equal at all, he actually wants Backstrom, but he's not about to tell Boston that. He'll only trade down if Boston are going to take Kessel, if they want Backstrom he won't do it, which is what ends up happening, but it's a perfect example of how GMs can be sneaky and not show their true intentions towards one another.

Did Ottawa actually want Kadri over Cowen? Maybe, maybe not, we'll likely never know. It's a bit naive to be 100% sure that Murray is telling the truth in that first clip I posted, though. He could have been telling the truth, or he could just as easily have been lying.
There is certainly no way on earth that that video could be used as evidence in any form that the Senators wanted Cowen. It certainly appears that Burke knew that the Senators knew exactly who the best player on the board was at the time because he didn't even ask why Murray was there.

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Old
06-03-2012, 01:15 PM
  #71
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After Edmonton (presumably) chooses Yakupov every team from #2 to #6 will be in a quandary. It will ease progresively as each of the earlier selections is made. The angst of the respective fans will recede, too.

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Old
06-03-2012, 01:40 PM
  #72
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I really don't understand what gives you that impression.
because of what Morrison said: “We’ve talked about what we want to do, but I don’t think you can ignore a really good defenceman if he’s available at that spot,”

hence if Murray is there @ 5 he is a Leaf IMO

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Old
06-03-2012, 04:29 PM
  #73
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Even if they take BPA, remember that many things may happen over the prospect's development in the following years. Best of luck to us all!

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Old
06-03-2012, 05:04 PM
  #74
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Okay please take this talk to another thread. This has gone far enough IMO.

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