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Glen Sather looking at free agency - "We don't trade kids"

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Old
06-03-2012, 09:31 AM
  #251
captain9nyr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 View Post
Radulov wouldn't fit this team IMO, things would get ugly quick. If we want a winger for the top 6, my vote is for a guy like Ponikarovsky, Stempniak or Sturm.
That's our problem. Those guys aren't top 6 wingers, they're 3rd line wingers. We alread have a plethora of 3rd line wingers.

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06-03-2012, 09:50 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by TKG View Post
The secondary scoring could come in the boy named Kreider.
Too lazy to search my post history, but back around the trade deadline I posted something and this ^ was basically the gist of it.

I think I said I would rather hold on to Kreider and have him be a bust than trade him and watch him be a star elsewhere.

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06-03-2012, 10:52 AM
  #253
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We have too many 3rd and 4th liners. And our potential top 6 are still in the juniors IE Miller (maybe) Yogan, thomas. We also have a LOG JAM of d-men. Problem is that we have no right handers besides Girardi. Kreider is probably gonna be inserted to the top 6. We need skill guys. We have Richards. We need finiishers. No more grinders or jam right now. Parise seems a good fit, but I think we should check around for other options first before spending a lot on him.

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06-03-2012, 11:11 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I'd like to direct your attention to the 1994-2004 New York Rangers.
It's a fair point, but at the same time the '94 push shouldn't have crippled the organization as bad as it did. A large part of that was the failure of the management to replenish the cupboard. That isn't our problem, in fact its a huge strength. If anything, our problem is top flight talent, but its hard to acquire that in the draft when you constantly pick in the 20-30 range. Amonte and Weight would be the equivalent of Kreider and Stepan, but I don't see that trade happening... not in the cap world where those contracts are probably more valuable than their actual output. Picking up a Radulov would cost far less, and fine, Radulov is Tyuten part 2... then the trade ought to be from a position of strength with a player we feel is not a part of the long range plan.


Tortorella himself said we can't get too confined when it comes to picking up new players. The brass understands that we have offensive issues. They won't be so picky about it. And let's be a little objective, Richards and Carter partied just as much as the European Predators and yet their incidents were handled with nearly as much disdain from their team and media as this one was. Nashville knew they were going down, they just manufactured some scapegoats and sat them an extra game to lock up that perception. It was stupid for the two to break team rules, but the organization turned it into a circus and extended the suspension themselves. The aftermath was more of a distraction than the actual incident. Zherdev had the same character issue baggage but he was a decent guy. It's an unfair double standard.

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06-03-2012, 11:32 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I don't see Nashville giving him away and to be honest if all it takes is drafts picks and a prospect going back then why wouldn't Poile shop him around the league?--see if there's more interest?

Could cost us our 1st or someone like Artie who some thought would bust out last year but didn't.

As to Radulov's character--in his relatively short career he's ditched his team once and then in the playoffs got caught past curfew supposedly inebriated and got suspended for two critical games by the Predators. There are some character issues involved.
Radulov's character screams Zherdev 2.0 so for those reasons I would pass, however if they Preds are only asking a 3rd rounder and mid level prospect it is worth exploring. My issue is that Torts is not the type of coach that can take a player with issues and get him to buy into his system, either players come in here and fit in or they don't. They have a good locker room and a bunch of young kids, is Radulov the type of player we want in here? I think we are missing that top 6 veteran winger who can score some clutch goals to put us over the top.

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06-03-2012, 12:19 PM
  #256
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When Tortorella said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella
“You have to be really careful about ruling people out; you don’t want to box yourself in.”
I have a difficult time believing he was speaking about Radulov. He was speaking about another Gaborik type, imo ( Relax just an example). Despite his "soft" label, Gaborik is Callahan in comparison to Radulov.

He is skilled but they are going to have to do quite a bit of due diligence here. See if they can get him on board first. I suppose it would be similar to draft interviews. Get Anisimov to sleep with his girlfriend .

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06-03-2012, 12:20 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 View Post
Radulov wouldn't fit this team IMO, things would get ugly quick. If we want a winger for the top 6, my vote is for a guy like Ponikarovsky, Stempniak or Sturm.
not one is a top 6 winger.

Why would you want to continuing doing what we are already doing without success?

having any one of those three mentioned in a top 6 role is a failuer waiting to happen

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06-03-2012, 02:32 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I don't see Nashville giving him away and to be honest if all it takes is drafts picks and a prospect going back then why wouldn't Poile shop him around the league?--see if there's more interest?

Could cost us our 1st or someone like Artie who some thought would bust out last year but didn't.

As to Radulov's character--in his relatively short career he's ditched his team once and then in the playoffs got caught past curfew supposedly inebriated and got suspended for two critical games by the Predators. There are some character issues involved.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...ne/MAG1198348/

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The soiree at the W—alcohol free, according to a source

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06-03-2012, 02:44 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by captain9nyr View Post
That's our problem. Those guys aren't top 6 wingers, they're 3rd line wingers. We alread have a plethora of 3rd line wingers.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue425 View Post
Too lazy to search my post history, but back around the trade deadline I posted something and this ^ was basically the gist of it.

I think I said I would rather hold on to Kreider and have him be a bust than trade him and watch him be a star elsewhere.
I think Kreider will be a nice boost to our secondary scoring but I don't think he'll be enough. Not as a rookie anyway. If we can get a 35g guy and bolster our top six then the pack line becomes our 3rd line and we're finally a deep team. It really gets me excited thinking of that outcome.

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06-03-2012, 03:49 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
Radulov's character screams Zherdev 2.0 so for those reasons I would pass, however if they Preds are only asking a 3rd rounder and mid level prospect it is worth exploring. My issue is that Torts is not the type of coach that can take a player with issues and get him to buy into his system, either players come in here and fit in or they don't. They have a good locker room and a bunch of young kids, is Radulov the type of player we want in here? I think we are missing that top 6 veteran winger who can score some clutch goals to put us over the top.
He does scream Zherdev--Jones ripped him into shreds over his giveaways and back checking or lack of. That doesn't mean he can't improve or be pushed to improve in those areas but his on ice game as of right now definitely lacks many of the qualities that the current Rangers have tried to instill in their team. Guys like Avery, Wolski and Christensen could not live up to those standards and I have doubts that Radulov will either. So if he can't or won't make that kind of commitment are we going to make an exception in his case just because he can add a little more goal scoring punch--and the next question would be at what cost--in assets going Nashville's way and contract to play here.

Doubtful that this is a good idea.

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06-03-2012, 04:00 PM
  #261
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Radulov has a lot of skill. But...if this guy couldn't walk the line in Nashville, how is he going to resist temptation in NY? Lots of players in the past haven't been able to do that here in the past.

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06-03-2012, 04:58 PM
  #262
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I know obviously we have offensive issues, both on the top 6 AND on the bottom 6 (although the bottom six issues would be solved if we didn't have to essentialy play excellent 3rd liners on the second line). Still, guys are way to quick to want to trade people for (a) marginal talent or (b)guys with some skill but a host of issues (like Radulov), especially as we did in fact make the ECF with a team on the rise and a re-stocked farm system.

I do not wish to trade anyone except people who aren't likely to bring much in return anyway. Trade John Mitchell, Boyle, Fedotenko, Scott, Eminger, etc., if you like, but they aren't bringing anything back except useless 4th liners and bad contracts. If Erixon looks like a winner, maybe you could trade Del Zotto IF he brought back a true LW for the first line. Anybody wanting to part with MCD, Girardi or Staal needs a psychiatrist. And I do want to keep Dubinsky, look at the Devil series and how we dominated games 5 and 6 (even though we lost) when he came back.

I also think guys like Stepan and particularly Anisimov won't bring anything near their future value in a trade, particularly the latter. I know he disappoints at times and plays far too soft for someone of his size and skill level, but teams won't give top dollar for him.

For the most part, we need to stay the course and fix our one or two glaring needs through a judicious free agent signing.

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06-03-2012, 05:25 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I think Kreider will be a nice boost to our secondary scoring but I don't think he'll be enough. Not as a rookie anyway. If we can get a 35g guy and bolster our top six then the pack line becomes our 3rd line and we're finally a deep team. It really gets me excited thinking of that outcome.
I really don't think we need a 35g guy. Add a 25g scorer to go with Kreider and the top 6 is fine...assuming Gaborik is back healthy before the end of November. Then add someone who can win a few faceoffs and chip in 10 to 15 goals and we're looking good. Gotta figure Dubi splits the difference between his past two years of production and is good for 17 himself. 20 more goals and we would have been top 5 in the league in scoring. Adding Kreider and a 25 goal scorer to the top 6 and a 10 to 15 goal guy to the bottom six, with Dubi improving a bit would add more than those 20 goals for sure.

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06-03-2012, 05:31 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
I really don't think we need a 35g guy. Add a 25g scorer to go with Kreider and the top 6 is fine...assuming Gaborik is back healthy before the end of November. Then add someone who can win a few faceoffs and chip in 10 to 15 goals and we're looking good. Gotta figure Dubi splits the difference between his past two years of production and is good for 17 himself. 20 more goals and we would have been top 5 in the league in scoring. Adding Kreider and a 25 goal scorer to the top 6 and a 10 to 15 goal guy to the bottom six, with Dubi improving a bit would add more than those 20 goals for sure.
I respectfully disagree.

I've felt all along that we need another game-breaking offensive player. Because when teams key in on Richards and Gaborik, we need another player who can carry the offensive load every once in a while.

Adding another 25 goal scorer may not be that much of a difference and you'd still see this team grind to get goals. The way the league has become, a 25 goal scorer can be anything from an average 2nd liner to a good 3rd line grinder (aka Dubinsky).

We need another game-breaker (and I don't think Parise falls into that category).

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06-03-2012, 05:47 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I don't see Nashville giving him away and to be honest if all it takes is drafts picks and a prospect going back then why wouldn't Poile shop him around the league?--see if there's more interest?

Could cost us our 1st or someone like Artie who some thought would bust out last year but didn't.

As to Radulov's character--in his relatively short career he's ditched his team once and then in the playoffs got caught past curfew supposedly inebriated and got suspended for two critical games by the Predators. There are some character issues involved.
Radulov has to agree to terms. If he doesn't want to play for X team,he will leave for one of the two KHL teams interested in his services. This isn't the case of a North American player who only wants to play in the KHL. Nashville can shop him to every team in the NHL but if doesn't want to play there,Poile is wasting his time making the calls. He is two years away from group III. They will get nothing for him if he bolts. Why wouldn't he bolt? He bolted on them once already.

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06-03-2012, 05:52 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
I respectfully disagree.

I've felt all along that we need another game-breaking offensive player. Because when teams key in on Richards and Gaborik, we need another player who can carry the offensive load every once in a while.

Adding another 25 goal scorer may not be that much of a difference and you'd still see this team grind to get goals. The way the league has become, a 25 goal scorer can be anything from an average 2nd liner to a good 3rd line grinder (aka Dubinsky).

We need another game-breaker (and I don't think Parise falls into that category).
When did Brandon Dubinsky score 25 goals? Forgive me if I don't count 10+ years ago on the Winter Hawks. lol I'm talking about a legitimate 25 goal scorer like a Pominville, Kane, Ladd, Eriksson...not that I'm suggesting any of them are available, but simply that there's a difference between a guy who almost scored 25 goals once, and those who have exceeded that number multiple times. You add a legit 25 goal scorer to this lineup, insert Kreider, get a half dozen more goals from Dubinsky and incremental improvement from guys like Hagelin and Stepan and this is easily a top 10, probably closer to top 5 offense. They won't be grinding out goals nearly the way they did this year. And if Richards and Gaborik are the focus of the opposition there will still be enough firepower to put the puck in the net. When you add a "game-breaker" you are hoping to get close to what you paid for him in return. In a hard cap era that's usually a recipe for disaster. Is Nash going to give us 7.8M in value? Doubtful. Maybe he could score 50. Otherwise we're just wasting money. But that's just my opinion.

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06-03-2012, 05:55 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
When did Brandon Dubinsky score 25 goals? Forgive me if I don't count 10+ years ago on the Winter Hawks. lol I'm talking about a legitimate 25 goal scorer like a Pominville, Kane, Ladd, Eriksson...not that I'm suggesting any of them are available, but simply that there's a difference between a guy who almost scored 25 goals once, and those who have exceeded that number multiple times. You add a legit 25 goal scorer to this lineup, insert Kreider, get a half dozen more goals from Dubinsky and incremental improvement from guys like Hagelin and Stepan and this is easily a top 10, probably closer to top 5 offense. They won't be grinding out goals nearly the way they did this year. And if Richards and Gaborik are the focus of the opposition there will still be enough firepower to put the puck in the net. When you add a "game-breaker" you are hoping to get close to what you paid for him in return. In a hard cap era that's usually a recipe for disaster. Is Nash going to give us 7.8M in value? Doubtful. Maybe he could score 50. Otherwise we're just wasting money. But that's just my opinion.
Yea Dubinsky scored 24 goals last year, but I can see the difference in what you're saying but I still think we need someone that's more than an average 25 goal scorer. Any given year a player can score 20-25 goals (i.e. Dubinsky, Boyle, etc.) so while I see that you're talking about adding a constant 25 goal scorer I don't view that as much of a difference.

Like I said I think this team needs another 35+ goal scorer that not only can create offense by himself but make his teammates better. I guess it's just a different philosophy lol.

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06-03-2012, 08:10 PM
  #268
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Radulov has to agree to terms. If he doesn't want to play for X team,he will leave for one of the two KHL teams interested in his services. This isn't the case of a North American player who only wants to play in the KHL. Nashville can shop him to every team in the NHL but if doesn't want to play there,Poile is wasting his time making the calls. He is two years away from group III. They will get nothing for him if he bolts. Why wouldn't he bolt? He bolted on them once already.
IMO--you're one of the smartest posters here RB but this guy has too many issues for my blood. He might be fine here but until now he has shown himself very much to be a mercenary and if he doesn't hit it off with Torts this is going to go down a very nasty stretch of road. If he doesn't cost very much in assets going the other way--then by all means but I wouldn't be handing him a long term and expensive contract right away. If he wants to play for the Rangers he'll need to prove he's ready to how the team plays which is something that Gaborik has done.

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06-03-2012, 08:15 PM
  #269
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What this team needs is it's core group of players to improve as a whole. A lot of these young guys that are at the point where they need to take it to the next step.

Who I think we should aquire at the Free Agency - Time.

AA -24 - was deamed the next superstar to hit NYC from how many people talked about him in his last year in the AHL. I think next year where gonna see a different AA.

MDZ - 21 - Young D with a great offensive upside. Could be our PP QB for years to come. Just needs to be a smarter.

Stepan - 21 - had a mediocre year last year but we need him to take a step in the right direction.

McD - 22 - The sky is the limit for this kid. I can't imagine how good he will be in a few years!

Haeglin - 23 - Instantly started contributing and hopefully continues to grow.

Staal - 25 - He's only 25! One of the top shutdown D. He came back from a concussion and kept getting better.

Dubinsky - 26 - Rough year last year. Had to been playing through an injury (but that's up for debate). He guy needs to improve and seemed to improve every years (excluding last year).

Krieder is another kid that's gonna come in and seemly make an impact right away. But we can't forget about the young guys that have come in and succeeded and possibly be the core of the NYR.

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06-03-2012, 09:02 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
What this team needs is it's core group of players to improve as a whole. A lot of these young guys that are at the point where they need to take it to the next step.

Who I think we should aquire at the Free Agency - Time.

AA -24 - was deamed the next superstar to hit NYC from how many people talked about him in his last year in the AHL. I think next year where gonna see a different AA.

MDZ - 21 - Young D with a great offensive upside. Could be our PP QB for years to come. Just needs to be a smarter.

Stepan - 21 - had a mediocre year last year but we need him to take a step in the right direction.

McD - 22 - The sky is the limit for this kid. I can't imagine how good he will be in a few years!

Haeglin - 23 - Instantly started contributing and hopefully continues to grow.

Staal - 25 - He's only 25! One of the top shutdown D. He came back from a concussion and kept getting better.

Dubinsky - 26 - Rough year last year. Had to been playing through an injury (but that's up for debate). He guy needs to improve and seemed to improve every years (excluding last year).

Krieder is another kid that's gonna come in and seemly make an impact right away. But we can't forget about the young guys that have come in and succeeded and possibly be the core of the NYR.
we can still keep the core mostly in tact and bring in another scorer

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06-03-2012, 09:11 PM
  #271
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Radulov has a lot of skill. But...if this guy couldn't walk the line in Nashville, how is he going to resist temptation in NY? Lots of players in the past haven't been able to do that here in the past.
Wow you act like this is Theo Fleury here. The "kid" came back to the hotel an hour late. Who knows the reason, but it's like he's "addicted" to partying all of a sudden.

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06-03-2012, 09:44 PM
  #272
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No, but you would think that he might actually pretend to give a s**t about his teammates, and coach during the PO's, respect the curfew, and not even put himself in that situation in the first place

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06-03-2012, 09:47 PM
  #273
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Radulov has a lot of skill. But...if this guy couldn't walk the line in Nashville, how is he going to resist temptation in NY? Lots of players in the past haven't been able to do that here in the past.
He'll be without Andrei Kostitsyn, who was the problem child.

Notice how Sergei went to Nashville, and he was fine, but in Montreal he was viewed as a problem when he was there, with Andrei.

Andrei is the problem here, not Radulov, not Sergei.

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06-03-2012, 10:22 PM
  #274
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That's our problem. Those guys aren't top 6 wingers, they're 3rd line wingers. We alread have a plethora of 3rd line wingers.



Sturm isn't a top 6 winger? Who is in your opinion? Who is a top 6 winger that we can afford.

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06-03-2012, 10:27 PM
  #275
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Sturm isn't a top 6 winger? Who is in your opinion? Who is a top 6 winger that we can afford.
He has 17 points in his last 83 games spanning two seasons. 54 points in his last 159 games going back three seasons

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