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C Alex Galchenyuk - Sarnia Sting, OHL (2012 draft) (Part 2)

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06-03-2012, 07:13 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
Dude, Montreal may not even have a chance to draft Galchenyuk. He may be drafted by Columbus. IMHO, Galchenyuk will be picked in the top 3.
Then that would mean that I win the bet.

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06-03-2012, 07:14 PM
  #152
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This.

To be honest, drafting Murray wouldn't upset me.

I just think and I believe even Bruins fans and Leaf fans and any hockey fan would think habs would take Forsberg, Gally, or Grigs.
I mean yeah, you can say team A drafting prospect x, y, or z makes sense but no one can say guaranteed unless someone says...Mikhail Grigorenko won't be drafted this year...something like that...go ahead and slap a guarantee on it, but the first round never goes the way people expect it to.

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06-03-2012, 07:16 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
This.

To be honest, drafting Murray wouldn't upset me.

I just think and I believe even Bruins fans and Leaf fans and any hockey fan would think habs would take Forsberg, Gally, or Grigs.
it might not upset you, but why in the world would habs draft Murray? it would be downright dumb unless a trade was soon in the works. we've drafted dmen in the first round for 3 of last 4 years i believe - and are desperately in need of top end talent up front. we're SET at D with subban, tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, Gorges, emelin, diaz etc..

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06-03-2012, 07:29 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
it might not upset you, but why in the world would habs draft Murray? it would be downright dumb unless a trade was soon in the works. we've drafted dmen in the first round for 3 of last 4 years i believe - and are desperately in need of top end talent up front. we're SET at D with subban, tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, Gorges, emelin, diaz etc..
I understand the need for top end talent, but if Subban, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, and Gorges is a solid NHL blueline...well...get Anaheim on the phone...don't draft any blueliners...we've been set for years. That's still a blueline core that can use work. Murray would easily sit right behind Subban on that list.

You guys keep talking about your forward core like it's totally damaged. Patches, Plekanec, Desharnais...I would trade quite a bit to get one of those guys. Not to say don't draft forward, but the Habs are damaged in their depth...not in their scoring up front. They have an incomplete roster. They can take help anywhere they can get it. That's all I'm trying to say...well actually I'm trying to say, enough with the "Galchenyuk won't make it past 3 guaranteed", because we hear it every year, and every year there's someone who falls and everyone is just shocked.

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06-03-2012, 07:47 PM
  #155
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Plekanec and Desharnais are 2nd line centers on a contending team. Period.

We haven't had someone perform like a legit #1 center over a full season since basically 1997, which was Damphousse's last point per game season. Can you blame us for finally wanting one? The team finished tied for 19th in goals for this season and tied for 21st the previous year, so offence is a big issue.

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06-03-2012, 07:51 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
it might not upset you, but why in the world would habs draft Murray? it would be downright dumb unless a trade was soon in the works. we've drafted dmen in the first round for 3 of last 4 years i believe - and are desperately in need of top end talent up front. we're SET at D with subban, tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, Gorges, emelin, diaz etc..
They'd draft him because they feel he'd be the the BPA in the future.

Habs drafted Price when they had Huet, Halak, and some other goalies...

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06-03-2012, 08:00 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Plekanec and Desharnais are 2nd line centers on a contending team. Period.

We haven't had someone perform like a legit #1 center over a full season since basically 1997, which was Damphousse's last point per game season. Can you blame us for finally wanting one? The team finished tied for 19th in goals for this season and tied for 21st the previous year, so offence is a big issue.
It's one thing to want, it's quite another to say it's guaranteed to be rectified.

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06-03-2012, 08:24 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
I understand the need for top end talent, but if Subban, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, and Gorges is a solid NHL blueline...well...get Anaheim on the phone...don't draft any blueliners...we've been set for years. That's still a blueline core that can use work. Murray would easily sit right behind Subban on that list.

You guys keep talking about your forward core like it's totally damaged. Patches, Plekanec, Desharnais...I would trade quite a bit to get one of those guys. Not to say don't draft forward, but the Habs are damaged in their depth...not in their scoring up front. They have an incomplete roster. They can take help anywhere they can get it. That's all I'm trying to say...well actually I'm trying to say, enough with the "Galchenyuk won't make it past 3 guaranteed", because we hear it every year, and every year there's someone who falls and everyone is just shocked.
beaulieu and tinordi will be top 4 dmen. ellis too maybe. on the farm there is leblanc and gallagher and maybe kristo. all speedsters none game-breakers. and certainly none with legit size. on the habs you have nice pieces in maxpac, pleks, desharnais, maybe eller but habs are missing top 6 talent. i expect timmins to rectify that with 4 picks in the top 64

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06-03-2012, 09:32 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
I understand the need for top end talent, but if Subban, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, and Gorges is a solid NHL blueline...well...get Anaheim on the phone...don't draft any blueliners...we've been set for years. That's still a blueline core that can use work. Murray would easily sit right behind Subban on that list.

You guys keep talking about your forward core like it's totally damaged. Patches, Plekanec, Desharnais...I would trade quite a bit to get one of those guys. Not to say don't draft forward, but the Habs are damaged in their depth...not in their scoring up front. They have an incomplete roster. They can take help anywhere they can get it. That's all I'm trying to say...well actually I'm trying to say, enough with the "Galchenyuk won't make it past 3 guaranteed", because we hear it every year, and every year there's someone who falls and everyone is just shocked.
The reason why we say the Habs wont take a defenseman in the first round..
Subban, Emelin, Gorges, Diaz and Weber are all young blue-liners currently on the team who have had a positive impact.
Nash, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, St. Denis, Pateryn are defenseman in Hamilton next season. Nash and St. Denis have both played in the NHL and done well during their call-ups.
Bennett, Dietz and Didier are all legitimate defensive prospects in the system. Bennett coming off an excellent season in Michigan, Dietz who was one of the top D men for Saskatoon and Didier who is already built like an NHLer.

Montreals forward talent?
Pacioretty, Desharnais, Eller in the NHL. That is 3 forwards out of 12. Plekanec, Cole and Gionta are the veterans.
Leblanc, Gallagher, Bournival and Holland, Avtsin are AHL players next season. Leblanc will be lucky to be a 2nd liner. Gallagher has the size factor against him but looks great. Bournival is a checking forward. Holland is a project. Avtsin has done nothing to prove his potential.
Pribyl, MacMillan, Kristo and Quailer round out the forward prospects. Pribyl could be something but could do what Avtsin did. MacMillan has a lot of college years left. Kristo will be a top two line player. Quailer has potential but who knows if he can develop.

We have young NHL defenseman. We have two can't miss prospects on the back end. With Ellis, Dietz and Bennet as three guys who I believe will be NHLers.

We have no top line forwards in the system. Not one. All we have is hopefuls. A guy like Galchenyuk at number 3 is more guaranteed than anything else.

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06-03-2012, 10:47 PM
  #160
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You're going to be singing a different tune about a LOT of those guys pretty soon ^.
It really wouldn't be the end of the world if you guys took Murray. And as far as forwards go, there's a little thing called high draft pick leverage for asset acquisitions, oh, and free agency. Unless you guys are going the re-build route, those are viable options.

I heard justifications for why Larsson wasn't slipping past 3, Couturier, Fowler, Gormley, you name em, I heard the guarantees. I'm not saying it won't happen, but enough with saying "my team is picking player x or we better check the temperature down in hell". I'm almost convinced I'll see posts like "oh my gm didn't pick _______, well it IS 2012"

Not even saying this for my own hopeful benefit. I'm actually concerned that if Galchenyuk was available, Murray would be warded off by the injury as it is. No one is a guarantee. I could say "Murray will draft Dumba" all I want. I'll look really stupid if he picks Reilly, Maatta, or Teravainen.

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06-03-2012, 10:49 PM
  #161
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I have this feeling that Edmonton is going to be set on taking a defenseman, with Murray atop the list, and trade out of #1 with Columbus. And after they do that, trade down with Montreal again. Some might question why, but IMO it makes sense. Columbus gets their prize, Montreal gets the security of landing Gally, and Edmonton gets their guys and a couple assets to boot.

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06-03-2012, 11:15 PM
  #162
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Then that would mean that I win the bet.
I thought the bet was the habs would pass on Gal, either by selecting someone else or by trading down?

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06-03-2012, 11:23 PM
  #163
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And yea, I really like Murray, but don't see the Habs going Dman at all. As mentioned we are so loaded with young D we will have to make some trades eventually already.

It's going to be one of Yak, Forsberg, Galchenyuk, or Grigorenko if we stay at 3, and most likely one of Galchenyuk or Forsberg.

That said Murray would make the D core ridiculous, but again, with the shape our scoring line forward group is in, don't see how we could pass on the opportunity unless they believe Murray to be head and shoulders above Gal and Forsberg, but I just don't see it.

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06-04-2012, 12:23 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
You're going to be singing a different tune about a LOT of those guys pretty soon ^.
It really wouldn't be the end of the world if you guys took Murray. And as far as forwards go, there's a little thing called high draft pick leverage for asset acquisitions, oh, and free agency. Unless you guys are going the re-build route, those are viable options.

I heard justifications for why Larsson wasn't slipping past 3, Couturier, Fowler, Gormley, you name em, I heard the guarantees. I'm not saying it won't happen, but enough with saying "my team is picking player x or we better check the temperature down in hell". I'm almost convinced I'll see posts like "oh my gm didn't pick _______, well it IS 2012"

Not even saying this for my own hopeful benefit. I'm actually concerned that if Galchenyuk was available, Murray would be warded off by the injury as it is. No one is a guarantee. I could say "Murray will draft Dumba" all I want. I'll look really stupid if he picks Reilly, Maatta, or Teravainen.
I think habs fans feel save in guaranteeing a forward. Scoring depth is needed a lot more than defensive depth. And free agency and trades isn't something you want to depend on in a market that has trouble attracting free agents.

The guy also forgot to slip in Markov who, knock on wood, should have a decent return to the season.

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06-04-2012, 12:26 AM
  #165
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I think habs fans feel save in guaranteeing a forward. Scoring depth is needed a lot more than defensive depth. And free agency and trades isn't something you want to depend on in a market that has trouble attracting free agents.

The guy also forgot to slip in Markov who, knock on wood, should have a decent return to the season.
Well...I mean...even if he does, how much more time has he got? We're looking at the future here, and if that was my core for the future...I'd be concerned. I'm not trying to talk you guys out of wanting a forward. I understand that is the position that needs the most help. I'm just saying if another area was addressed it wouldn't be the end of the world.

You never know if there'll be a lockout or not, Montreal could end up with first overall

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06-04-2012, 08:57 AM
  #166
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You're going to be singing a different tune about a LOT of those guys pretty soon ^.
It really wouldn't be the end of the world if you guys took Murray. And as far as forwards go, there's a little thing called high draft pick leverage for asset acquisitions, oh, and free agency. Unless you guys are going the re-build route, those are viable options.

I heard justifications for why Larsson wasn't slipping past 3, Couturier, Fowler, Gormley, you name em, I heard the guarantees. I'm not saying it won't happen, but enough with saying "my team is picking player x or we better check the temperature down in hell". I'm almost convinced I'll see posts like "oh my gm didn't pick _______, well it IS 2012"

Not even saying this for my own hopeful benefit. I'm actually concerned that if Galchenyuk was available, Murray would be warded off by the injury as it is. No one is a guarantee. I could say "Murray will draft Dumba" all I want. I'll look really stupid if he picks Reilly, Maatta, or Teravainen.
I really am not going to be singing a different tune about a lot of those guys. Tinordi is close to NHL ready. Beaulieu has all the offensive tools, he just needs to round out his game. Ellis simply needs pro experience and I thought he was the best out of the three in the memorial cup tournament. Dietz and Bennett to me look like sure-fire NHLers once they continue their development. Nash and St. Denis have both proven they can be solid bottom pairing defenseman.

I'm not guaranteeing Galchenyuk at all. I am guaranteeing a forward. Montreal isnt stupid. They dont normally draft by need but right now they can easily sway the BPA discussion in favor of a forward after watching 3 defensive prospects star in the Memorial Cup. With 3 young D men in the NHL proving they can be key cogs on the D. You can only dress 6 D men. You have to fill your line-up with 12 forwards.

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06-04-2012, 09:05 AM
  #167
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I really am not going to be singing a different tune about a lot of those guys. Tinordi is close to NHL ready. Beaulieu has all the offensive tools, he just needs to round out his game. Ellis simply needs pro experience and I thought he was the best out of the three in the memorial cup tournament. Dietz and Bennett to me look like sure-fire NHLers once they continue their development. Nash and St. Denis have both proven they can be solid bottom pairing defenseman.

I'm not guaranteeing Galchenyuk at all. I am guaranteeing a forward. Montreal isnt stupid. They dont normally draft by need but right now they can easily sway the BPA discussion in favor of a forward after watching 3 defensive prospects star in the Memorial Cup. With 3 young D men in the NHL proving they can be key cogs on the D. You can only dress 6 D men. You have to fill your line-up with 12 forwards.
Is that you Pierre McGuire? You sound just like him thinking that every prospect is can't miss and has no growing pains. You might want to prepare yourself for some disappointment because chances are most of them will not make it or reach their potential if they do make it.

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06-04-2012, 09:08 AM
  #168
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Is that you Pierre McGuire? You sound just like him thinking that every prospect is can't miss and has no growing pains. You might want to prepare yourself for some disappointment because chances are most of them will not make it or reach their potential if they do make it.
You don't even have to be overly optimistic. As long as 2 of Tinordi/Beaulieu/Ellis can be top 4 D, the rest doesn't even really matter and will be icing, as bottom pairing D can always be picked up via trade of FA. Add that to Subban, Emelin, Gorges, Weber/Diaz, etc. and we have a good core of D to work with going forward.

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06-04-2012, 09:12 AM
  #169
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Is that you Pierre McGuire? You sound just like him thinking that every prospect is can't miss and has no growing pains. You might want to prepare yourself for some disappointment because chances are most of them will not make it or reach their potential if they do make it.
Beaulieu is the wild card of the bunch, and the guy I could see busting of the big three. Tinordi and Ellis are very safe prospects though. Their defensive game will translate, the projection in regards to them is how good they will be offensively...

That said with Subban, Gorges, Diaz and Emelin already on the big squad and likely here to stay, you can see that the future of Montreals blueline is pretty damn bright. Up front is a different story however, and it would just not make much sense to pass on either Galchenyuk or Forsberg for a D.

Face it Leafs fans, one of those 2 is going to be a Hab.

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06-04-2012, 09:20 AM
  #170
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Is that you Pierre McGuire? You sound just like him thinking that every prospect is can't miss and has no growing pains. You might want to prepare yourself for some disappointment because chances are most of them will not make it or reach their potential if they do make it.
Obviously I should take your word for it, after all you do have a Luke Schenn avatar.

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06-04-2012, 09:21 AM
  #171
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06-04-2012, 09:26 AM
  #172
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Obviously I should take your word for it, after all you do have a Luke Schenn avatar.
That's actually more of a reason why you should take my word for it. I love Schenner but I'm not an idiot and think he's the best, I just really hope he turns it around cause a lot of people (myself included) thought he was a can't miss prospect.

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06-04-2012, 09:42 AM
  #173
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That's actually more of a reason why you should take my word for it. I love Schenner but I'm not an idiot and think he's the best, I just really hope he turns it around cause a lot of people (myself included) thought he was a can't miss prospect.
Off topic but I don't understand why so many Leafs hate on him. He's still only 22.

Obviously nothing is 100% guaranteed, but the safest bet is the Habs take a forward #3. Galchenyuk, if he's available, definitely wouldn't be a surprise pick for the Habs.

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06-04-2012, 09:45 AM
  #174
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Off topic but I don't understand why so many Leafs hate on him. He's still only 22.

Obviously nothing is 100% guaranteed, but the safest bet is the Habs take a forward #3. Galchenyuk, if he's available, definitely wouldn't be a surprise pick for the Habs.
I still love Schenner, Leafers are just extremely impatient and not use to developing prospects properly.
I also see MTL taking Gally if he gets that far.

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06-04-2012, 09:52 AM
  #175
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Is that you Pierre McGuire? You sound just like him thinking that every prospect is can't miss and has no growing pains. You might want to prepare yourself for some disappointment because chances are most of them will not make it or reach their potential if they do make it.
Even if half of them or less turn out we're still looking at a few solid players. It's not like our cupboards are bare here.

The Habs will draft a forward with top line potential or trade down. I don't think we draft a Dman 3rd overall.

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