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Glen Sather looking at free agency - "We don't trade kids"

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06-04-2012, 10:29 AM
  #301
RangerBoy
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If Radulov wants big money in the NHL,he will need to prove himself at the NHL level. If Radulov was coming off his ELC and had another year before arbitration,he would get $2.5M per. The Rangers should stay away if he wants to get paid KHL dollars. He should sign with CSKA.

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06-04-2012, 10:52 AM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
If Radulov wants big money in the NHL,he will need to prove himself at the NHL level. If Radulov was coming off his ELC and had another year before arbitration,he would get $2.5M per. The Rangers should stay away if he wants to get paid KHL dollars. He should sign with CSKA.
Agreed. In fact, this all sounds like his agent working the media to get the most he can from Federov. He is a God in the KHL, why would someone with his obvious ego issues, especially after his recent behavior, leave all that to be treated like a troubled rookie by someone like Torts? It doesn't make sense.

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06-04-2012, 11:36 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
If Radulov wants big money in the NHL,he will need to prove himself at the NHL level. If Radulov was coming off his ELC and had another year before arbitration,he would get $2.5M per. The Rangers should stay away if he wants to get paid KHL dollars. He should sign with CSKA.
As far as money concern I think it's going to be closer to $4.5 m than $2.5 m plus the promise of lucrative endorsement that he could get by playing for the Rangers in NY.

Aside from the money issue, though I typically support the idea of getting Russian born players to sign with the Rangers because of my background, I'm against getting Radulov.
He is not Zherdev 2.0 - he does not have an issue of not playing (hard) to his talent level. And I'm sure he could learn to backcheck and play responsibly in the defensive zone if he WANTS to become and be perceived as one of the top player in the NHL who has no issues putting team first (Ovechkin, Kovalchuk did it).
His issues are the constant thread of leaving the team at any time if things do not go his way, and whether he'd be able to deal with "attractions" of NYC. Yes, he's a winner and he's been the best player in KHL for the past three years, but because of his background (including being treated as a Tsar or rather Chechen khan while in KHL) I still have my serious doubts.

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06-04-2012, 12:02 PM
  #304
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Well yes, to some extent. Reduced icetime often means reduced offensive production though. A deeper top six means Callahan gets fewer minutes even strength and fewer powerplay minutes which means his totals will go down..can't just expect a magical 30 goal third liner on (relatively) limited icetime

Not that you were saying that, just pontificating

edit: the reason people are incredulous about trading for Ryan or Nash is that the cost would be significant and there's a very real worry about it affecting the team negatively instead of providing the top scoring depth everyone is clamoring for. No one wants to give up Kreider or a top 4 defenseman but that's what other teams will demand in exchange for their 1st line players
While this is usually true I think Torts does a fairly decent job of splitting time for the 2nd and 3rd lines. Plus they'd likely see 2nd unit PP time. But I get your point and it is a possibility.

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06-04-2012, 04:21 PM
  #305
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We want to win a Stanley Cup, right? To do that you need guys that understand the playoffs, and know how to close out a series in less than 7 games.

That's why we got Richards. Guys like Gaborik don';t have much post-season experience and it showed right off the bat in Ottawa, presumably before he was hurt.

Some guys (Girardi, Stralman, Kreider) seem to know how to naturally step it up, with little or no playoff experience. Now, do we really want to gamble and hope Nash is one of those guys?

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06-04-2012, 04:34 PM
  #306
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If the Rangers spend $4.5M per on Radulov,they're crazy. He hasn't done anything in the NHL to deserve those dollars.

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06-04-2012, 04:35 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
We want to win a Stanley Cup, right? To do that you need guys that understand the playoffs, and know how to close out a series in less than 7 games.

That's why we got Richards. Guys like Gaborik don';t have much post-season experience and it showed right off the bat in Ottawa, presumably before he was hurt.

Some guys (Girardi, Stralman, Kreider) seem to know how to naturally step it up, with little or no playoff experience. Now, do we really want to gamble and hope Nash is one of those guys?
This again?

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06-05-2012, 04:32 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
If Radulov wants big money in the NHL,he will need to prove himself at the NHL level. If Radulov was coming off his ELC and had another year before arbitration,he would get $2.5M per. The Rangers should stay away if he wants to get paid KHL dollars. He should sign with CSKA.
Nah RB, that is not realistic to be honest. Why would you compare him with a player coming of his ELC? He is 26 y/o.

Alot of diffrent varibables could appear to be relevant in a negotiation with Radulov. But it is a fact that he will get a very high competing offer from the KHL.

If we don't want him, we should stay away. But we can't arrenge a trade with Nashville and then call up his agent and say listen 2.5m is fair, because they would never accept that.

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If the Rangers spend $4.5M per on Radulov,they're crazy. He hasn't done anything in the NHL to deserve those dollars.
I think this is one of those cases where the real world differs from a pissing match at hfboards or even a panel debate at TSN. You can tell a poster here that you are right and they are wrong. But you can't tell a hockey player that you are right and he is wrong and expect him to sign with you unless he can be convinced of your argument.

If anyone isn't convinced that Radulov is a good player who would help us alot, and especially on the PP, that is their opinion. But any poster arguing what Radulov is worth based on his production in the NHL is just, like Rupp would say, irrelevant.


Last edited by Ola: 06-05-2012 at 04:39 AM.
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06-05-2012, 05:15 AM
  #309
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Then another issue is that I, just like many above, think the odds of i) Slats working something out with Nashvill and ii) Radulov taking a huge paycut in NY (which 4.5m - 5.5m per would be) is very low. The biggest problematic ingridiance in any negotiation is present in this case. Its hard to establish the facts. There is a very big range between what Nashville and Radulovs agent can argue with Slats (come on, we all know that you would be getting a 26 y/o 70 pts player), and what Slats can argue with them (not proven and the incident...).

I don't know what Radulov's plans are. But facts are also that his contract is up in the KHL, the market there for him is not the biggest since it will cost a boatload to get him from UFA and he demands a very high salary, so going to the NHL to play in the PO's is definitely the right thing to do from a perspective that he wants to get paid as much as possible in the KHL. It just gives him one more option.

I personally is intrigued by Radulov. For several reasons.

Power Play
Brad Richards needs someone to work with on the PP. In Tampa he had LeCavalier down low on the right side. In Dallas he had Mike Riberio. Here, he has mostly worked with Gabby, and Gabby just don't have that ability to play keep-away with a PK box. The PP is really simple. You need to create a situation where you have two options and in which you force the PK box to commit to one of those options.

Our PP only started to function when we started to run the play from the left side instead -- and that is far from optimal from Brad Richards point of view. BR's PP ability is a huge asset for us that we have not been able to use since we have not been able to give him somebody to work with down low.

Undoubtedly, Alexander Radulov would be a very very very good fit on the PP with Brad Richards. The ability described above, that is what his game is all about. On the PP, i) he can shoot very well from a little longer range from the right side, ii) he can take the puck to the net from the right side, ii) he can set things up, play keep away, find players in the slot/the far end D, hold on to the puck along the boards.

Marian Gaborik
Marian Gaborik had a fantastic season in NY and he was hurt in the PO's.

But its a fact that John Tortorella is not sold on him. Hence his comments. Hence his benching of him. And so forth. Gabby is also injury prone.

1 of 30 teams in the NHL wins the Cup. John Tortorella knows that. Gabby could certainly be a winner in the NHL. But I think, for a good reason, that Tortorella just is not sold on if a team built around a player like Gabby is likely to win it. Just look at teams normally winning the NHL. They are always D/center heavy. And for once I can say always and be 100% sure that nobody can here can dig up a exception. The best teams are of course complete and win most of the time. But a team with Bure and Mogiliny on it can miss the PO's, while a team with two stars at center ice basically always are atleast contenders (or?). Its just not ideal when Tortorella feels that when he needs a good shift, he "always turns to Callahan", not the highest paid player on the team.

Gabby is signed and he do not have a NTC.

I do not for a second think that Slats& Torts now would plan to get a replacement and then move Gabby. But fact is that if we got Radulov, we would have that option down the line. I always liked Mike Gartner, but I had kind of the same feeling of him as I do of Gabby. Gabby would be very attractive to many teams in this league, and in 6/12/18 months if one of many teams that struggle to be attractive in this league sits there with a 25-27 y/o about to hit the UFA market in the summer -- Gabby could be worth a lot.

Risk/Reward
I am convinced that Radulov would be a very low risk/high reward acquisation.

He will always get on the board no matter where he plays. He really competes on the ice. In all aspects of the game, he is alot easier to work with then Jagr/Gaborik. And he isn't even on the same planet as Semin or Zherdev. He is about as hard to work with on the ice as Callahan or Girardi. He is smart and does the right things. He works harder then most, and would on this team too, along the boards. You can tell that he played hsi first 4 years, from 17-21, in NA. He is very ambitious.

Then on the other hand, he is not tremendously talented overall. We would not be getting a player who could be a mega star overall. He is somewhat of a choppy skater and his elite ability is in the offensive zone, not going deep skating the puck up ice etc. Richards and Radulov would definitely work well on the PP, but I am not sure how both would work 5 on 5 since neither is a elite skater (at the same time, Haglin could compliment them well possibly). So lets not paint a false picture here.

But, if he indeed wants to play in the NHL, his price will undoubtedly be alot lower then any compareable player both in terms of trade value and what he would sign for. In this cap environment, you gotta be able to find steals like that.


Last edited by Ola: 06-05-2012 at 05:21 AM.
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06-05-2012, 06:15 AM
  #310
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Radulov not tremendously talented? LOL

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06-05-2012, 06:34 AM
  #311
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Nah RB, that is not realistic to be honest. Why would you compare him with a player coming of his ELC? He is 26 y/o.
Because he is coming off his ELC. He's 26 because he spent 3 years in the KHL instead of honoring the final year of his ELC.

Quote:
Alot of diffrent varibables could appear to be relevant in a negotiation with Radulov. But it is a fact that he will get a very high competing offer from the KHL.
And that is exactly why he won't get as much money from an NHL team. No team is going to commit that much money to a player that is such a high flight risk. Radulov will get at best a 2 year deal. He may get more than 2.5 mil, but whatever he gets from an NHL team will likely be lower than what he would get in the KHL.

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Gabby is signed and he do not have a NTC.
He does have an NTC.

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06-05-2012, 06:58 AM
  #312
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The Rangers are going to pay Radulov more than they are paying all of the forwards except Gaborik and Richards? That makes no sense. If Radulov was coming off his ELC with his NHL production,he would get $2.5M per in a 2 year deal before being eligible for salary arbitration. He should return to Russia.

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06-05-2012, 11:40 AM
  #313
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I don't trade Kreider straight up for Nash!

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06-05-2012, 11:44 AM
  #314
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Radulov not tremendously talented? LOL
Nah, the skating is just not there. Compared to say a Kovalchuk.
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Because he is coming off his ELC. He's 26 because he spent 3 years in the KHL instead of honoring the final year of his ELC.

And that is exactly why he won't get as much money from an NHL team. No team is going to commit that much money to a player that is such a high flight risk. Radulov will get at best a 2 year deal. He may get more than 2.5 mil, but whatever he gets from an NHL team will likely be lower than what he would get in the KHL.
But the 2nd contract after the ELC hard ball strategy of course only works if you can do what Slats did to Dubi, IE tell him to sign or sit. Its not quite as effective to tell someone sign or make 3x as much money someplace else if you get what I mean.

And he is no flight risk, there is an transferagreement between the NHL and the KHL that has not been breached to this day (besides maybe in the first hrs after it was signed, by Mr. Radulov(and maybe a few depth players that nobody have cared about).

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The Rangers are going to pay Radulov more than they are paying all of the forwards except Gaborik and Richards? That makes no sense. If Radulov was coming off his ELC with his NHL production,he would get $2.5M per in a 2 year deal before being eligible for salary arbitration. He should return to Russia.
I would say that there is a 97.5% chance that we aren't going to pay him at all.

But per definition, is he "worth" it? He is worth whatever he can get. Not a cent less or more. And only on hfboards will he only get 2.5m per. Seriously. Ville Leino got 4.5m on the market. Cervenka got what, 3.5m? Trying to sign Radulov to a 2.5m contract is exactly like calling up Ville Leino offering him 1.5m per when he got a offer of 4.5m per from Buffalo on the table. Its not happening.

Its just childish to expect him to sign here for 2.5m.

From all and any relevant perspectives, Radulov is basically an UFA in any negotiations. Unless of course the KHL is not a option to him. Nobody will trade for him without having him signed. Hence he can decide where he will be traded. And he can pick a team that only meets his demands.

My point is just, you either pay him or you stay away from him. You want to stay away? Fine.

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06-05-2012, 11:47 AM
  #315
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He does have an NTC.
I thought it was only a limited list thing?

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06-05-2012, 11:50 AM
  #316
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What Radulov would be signing for if he was a 22 year old just finishing up his ELC will impact his contract negotiations very little.

If he wants $4.5 million, the team will have to decide if they would rather have Radulov, or $4.5 million. Only Brian Burke will get wrapped up in the principles of it.

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06-05-2012, 03:18 PM
  #317
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Radulov for one year at $4.5 million is a risk you take. The reward outweighs the risk by a lot.

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06-05-2012, 03:55 PM
  #318
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We had 4 players scoring more than 3 goals in the PO's.

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06-05-2012, 04:53 PM
  #319
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If the Rangers spend $4.5M per on Radulov,they're crazy. He hasn't done anything in the NHL to deserve those dollars.
It would be atrocious.

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06-05-2012, 05:32 PM
  #320
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It would be atrocious.
But 3.5m for David Jones would be a steal?

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06-05-2012, 05:42 PM
  #321
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Radulov for one year at $4.5 million is a risk you take. The reward outweighs the risk by a lot.
So Rad's agent is willing to accept a 1 year deal ( 4.5 mil )??

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06-05-2012, 05:49 PM
  #322
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So Rad's agent is willing to accept a 1 year deal ( 4.5 mil )??
Yes. I can't believe you didn't hear about that.

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06-05-2012, 05:50 PM
  #323
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I thought it was only a limited list thing?
Not according to capgeek.

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06-05-2012, 05:52 PM
  #324
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My point is just, you either pay him or you stay away from him. You want to stay away? Fine.
I don't think any NHL team will pay him near the kind of money he will get in the KHL. So it's really a matter of how badly he wants to play in the NHL.

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06-05-2012, 06:18 PM
  #325
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1 year @ $4.5M? Too high of a price, but 1 year isn't a big deal.

On the fence about it.

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