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06-01-2012, 11:37 PM
  #101
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We all know he is never going to be a great defense first D but he will always be an elite offensive D. Even last year he still racked up enough pts to be 6th on the team in pts. If he actually comes to camp in shape and refocused he can easily top last years stats, specially if he is used properly. If he can get anywhere near 50 pts I'll be very happy. At the very least he should be able to bring in some assets at the trade deadline. How many of our D's have a chance of doing the same? We have one in Markov...but he needs to play a healthy season to do that...and the chances of that? Subban is the only other we have but I doubt he can do that, not because he can't but because of the roles he plays. If Markov gets hurt again this year, we will 'Need' Kaberle's offense if we want to get anywhere this year.
Whatever we may say about him, he is an elite offensive D. We just needs to shelter his negatives and we should do fine with him.

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06-02-2012, 12:19 AM
  #102
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If more than 10 of Kaberle's 22 points with us were at ES, and if he wasn't -6 despite "enjoying" some of the easiest minutes/opposition of any Montreal defenseman had last year, while ALSO enjoying starting in the offensive zone well over 50% of the time, I'd be more willing to be content with the offense - and forget about the defensive short-comings - of Kaberle.

He also had the lowest on-ice SV% of any defenseman except Emelin (who ended up with Kaberle as ES defense partner a LOT), which goes to show that goalies have a harder time stopping pucks when he's on the ice - "testament" to his impact/effectiveness on defense. Beyond the stats, though, we all saw what he was like, and should be hoping that he looks nothing like that on defense next season. Focusing myopically on his point totals is very Pierre Gauthier.

See, that's the major problem with Kaberle: the vast majority of a game played against a good (and thus typically disciplined) team is spent at even strength; not on a Montreal powerplay.

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06-02-2012, 10:06 AM
  #103
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Its kind of incredible that this guy used to be TO's no1 defensemen and now he's our new Marc-Andre Bergeron (lesser slapshot but better passing)

Probably goes to show how overrated their players get. He was always somehwat a defensive liability and it might explais in part why in past years toronto scored many goals but were beyond terrible on their own end.

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06-02-2012, 10:24 AM
  #104
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06-02-2012, 10:45 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Its kind of incredible that this guy used to be TO's no1 defensemen and now he's our new Marc-Andre Bergeron (lesser slapshot but better passing)

Probably goes to show how overrated their players get. He was always somehwat a defensive liability and it might explais in part why in past years toronto scored many goals but were beyond terrible on their own end.
Once upon a time Kaberle was an excellent defenceman. He used to burn Montreal pretty much every game.

Today, he's older and slower and desperately needs a smart D alongside him to clean up his mistakes.

If Montreal ends up with a good year where Markov, Subban and Kaberle are all carrying the puck up on three different D lines, there will be no excuse for the forwards to not finish.

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06-02-2012, 05:06 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Meh, he's still an asset IMO. Even with his poor year his pro rated points in montreal were nothing to sneeze at. I want more battle, more hustle and everyone on the team, weber, diaz, subban, markov will have to up their battle level in front of the crease and not play soft. As of now we have only gorges and emelin who are physical/defensive(subban as well, but u get what i mean). Assuming we get no changes, guys like kaberle need to come in shape to handle taking some of the defensive load. I don't expect him to lay people out, but don't be shy, push people away from price. do what you gotta do.

After that, if we're out of the playoffs again, I would want kaberle, markov, gionta and others to be shopped. Until then, he's not too bad, and i'd rather he focus on his thing and we get a defensive d-men but with the habs, I don't hold my breath. Seems like we've been waiting a lot for fixes and in this case, I'll give begervin time to properly evaluate the team.
As a leaf fan, we were wanting "more battle" from him since his draft year. You will NOTget more battle from Kabs. He is soft soft soft.

I also would not pencil in Markov anywhere. He is made of glass. Subban is very good IMO

What you can count on from Kabs is his accurate passing to get out of the zone. He is dependable that way. And, he can rack up some points, esp on the PP>

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06-03-2012, 01:05 PM
  #107
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I hope Kaberle can turn it around. Unfortunately I think we are stuck with him so I hope he can get in shape, lose a couple of chins and find his game. He was a good player when he was in Toronto until the Leafs told him they didn't want him anymore, then his play went downhill....but I think he still has good in him. His offensive game is pretty decent, he just needs to step it up in his own end and play a little harder and more physical.

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06-03-2012, 01:38 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by MaxPac67 View Post
Still a 1 way player. You could get Souray for half or less, get about the same points & he wont cost you in your end. MAB could also do the PP for 1 million bucks!
What a load of BS! Kaberle brings a hell of a lot more to the table than Souray does.

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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Neither Subban or Markov are sure bets. Subban stunk up most of the year on the powerplay and who knows about Markov and how long we will have him healthy. Kaberle is an excellent passer and did a fine job lining up guys on the powerplay only to watch countless shots fired into the boards.

No one thought he was going to be a two way defenseman, if you did you should have watched some hockey in the last 10 years. His defensive game is fine and when paired with a proper partner he does exactly what we need him to do, that is start the transition and move the puck. But I am sure some people here are angry he doesn't throw big hits or some nonsense.

Kaberle will almost definitly be on the first powerplay unit, you always split up your top two guys to have a more balanced attack. Putting Kaberle with Weber or some other plug is downright idiotic.
Great post.

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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
If more than 10 of Kaberle's 22 points with us were at ES, and if he wasn't -6 despite "enjoying" some of the easiest minutes/opposition of any Montreal defenseman had last year, while ALSO enjoying starting in the offensive zone well over 50% of the time, I'd be more willing to be content with the offense - and forget about the defensive short-comings - of Kaberle.

He also had the lowest on-ice SV% of any defenseman except Emelin (who ended up with Kaberle as ES defense partner a LOT), which goes to show that goalies have a harder time stopping pucks when he's on the ice - "testament" to his impact/effectiveness on defense. Beyond the stats, though, we all saw what he was like, and should be hoping that he looks nothing like that on defense next season. Focusing myopically on his point totals is very Pierre Gauthier.

See, that's the major problem with Kaberle: the vast majority of a game played against a good (and thus typically disciplined) team is spent at even strength; not on a Montreal powerplay.
I appreciate the quality of this post, but those numbers can be very misleading. It's no secret that we played a defense first/chip & chase system, and that right there will stunt an offensive defensemans' output, but the important thing to remember about a guy like Kaberle, is that he's only as good as the guy he passes to. We had absolute garbage on our forward lines last year apart from the Deshy line, and even they lack skill. We desperately need forward talent!

As much as I love Emelin, he's not the right kind of guy to be paired with Kabs. Need a vet/shutdown guy with him, a la Matt Greene/Willie Mitchell. Anyways, imo, a guy like Crawford would get the most out of our skill players, and I'm hoping its him or Roy as our coach. Then we'll see the real potential of Subban and hopefully relaunch Marky and Kaberle!

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06-03-2012, 01:53 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
If more than 10 of Kaberle's 22 points with us were at ES, and if he wasn't -6 despite "enjoying" some of the easiest minutes/opposition of any Montreal defenseman had last year, while ALSO enjoying starting in the offensive zone well over 50% of the time, I'd be more willing to be content with the offense - and forget about the defensive short-comings - of Kaberle.

He also had the lowest on-ice SV% of any defenseman except Emelin (who ended up with Kaberle as ES defense partner a LOT), which goes to show that goalies have a harder time stopping pucks when he's on the ice - "testament" to his impact/effectiveness on defense. Beyond the stats, though, we all saw what he was like, and should be hoping that he looks nothing like that on defense next season. Focusing myopically on his point totals is very Pierre Gauthier.

See, that's the major problem with Kaberle: the vast majority of a game played against a good (and thus typically disciplined) team is spent at even strength; not on a Montreal powerplay.
This is largely correct but on ice save percentage is largely random and almost never means anything except who was fortunate/unfortunate with their goaltending that year.

Between Kaberle's underlying numbers and his Boucher scouting results I think a pretty accurate picture of Kaberle can be produced. An offensive/possession wizard when his team has the and an even bigger liability without it which leads to losing hockey at anything above 3rd level competition. Maybe he could be very effective if insulated with good players to hide his deficiencies but if a player needs that then they aren't all that valuable.

He was however, clearly the best powerplay defenseman on the team last year by a wide margin.

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06-03-2012, 01:54 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Its kind of incredible that this guy used to be TO's no1 defensemen and now he's our new Marc-Andre Bergeron (lesser slapshot but better passing)

Probably goes to show how overrated their players get. He was always somehwat a defensive liability and it might explais in part why in past years toronto scored many goals but were beyond terrible on their own end.
I think you're off base on the MAB comparison. Kaberle is no Chara but he is(career wise) miles ahead of MAB defensively. He's bigger, faster and smarter in his own end. For his careeer he's bee at least average to above average defensively, it has never been his calling card, but like Markov he has used smarts and body position to be an effective defender. Last year he lost a step defensively, I think it had more to do with having a bad year, not being in the best of physical shape and his overall situation affecting his defense. I don't see it as a stretch for him to bounce back and play average defense in a #3-4 role.

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06-03-2012, 02:29 PM
  #111
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Two schools of thought on Kaberle >

(1) If a team, that's desperately trying to reach the floor cap, wants him for a fourth or fifth round pick this summer. Fine.

(2) Despite his lack of conditioning and lazy mindset upon arriving to Montreal. Tomas still managed to accumulate 22 pts. in 43 games (as a Canadien). All in all. That's not too shabby. Assuming Kaberle comes to camp focused. He still could be an asset.


Last edited by Chet-Nick: 06-03-2012 at 02:30 PM. Reason: nasty typo
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06-03-2012, 02:42 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Chet-Nick View Post
Two schools of thought on Kaberle >

(1) If a team, that's desperately trying to reach the floor cap, wants him for a fourth or fifth round pick this summer. Fine.

(2) Despite his lack of conditioning and lazy mindset upon arriving to Montreal. Tomas still managed to accumulate 22 pts. in 43 games (as a Canadien). All in all. That's not too shabby. Assuming Kaberle comes to camp focused. He still could be an asset.
You still have to make it a good move for the Habs. No point in trading Kaberle and having him produce elwhere if you're going to just replace him with O'brien or Commodore. Before you trade him(or both moves happen in cohesion) you need to use that cap room on a big stay at home d-man that can take 18-20 minutes a night. There are 3-4 good UFA candidates but that landscape could change dramatically in the next 4 weeks, Allen and Jackman could re-sign and Salvador could require a 3-4 year deal.

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06-03-2012, 03:11 PM
  #113
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hey if you guys want We'll give you back komisarek if you give us kaberle

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06-03-2012, 04:54 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by SexyJoffreyLupul View Post
hey if you guys want We'll give you back komisarek if you give us kaberle
Ah ... no! You can keep the pylon.

As for Komisarek. Few had complaints about Mike in Montreal. He was tough, blocked shots and took care of business in his own end. Let me tell you, the Markov-Komisarek pairing was a good one.

Burke obviously sold him on being part of the U.S. Olympic team and Gainey wouldn't offer Mike 4.5 mil per year - over five years - that Burke did. Thank God.

Komisarek was injured and never participated at the Olympics. Hasn't made the playoffs, since leaving Montreal, either. Goes to show the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

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06-03-2012, 06:57 PM
  #115
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Kaberle hopes to bounce back!


Most cliche article ever.

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06-03-2012, 06:58 PM
  #116
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Most cliche article ever.
You clearly haven't read any Gazette articles.

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06-03-2012, 07:02 PM
  #117
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You clearly haven't read any Gazette articles.
I haven't. Link?

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06-03-2012, 07:09 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Chet-Nick View Post
Two schools of thought on Kaberle >

(1) If a team, that's desperately trying to reach the floor cap, wants him for a fourth or fifth round pick this summer. Fine.

(2) Despite his lack of conditioning and lazy mindset upon arriving to Montreal. Tomas still managed to accumulate 22 pts. in 43 games (as a Canadien). All in all. That's not too shabby. Assuming Kaberle comes to camp focused. He still could be an asset.
Kaberle has shown up to a leafs' camp before out of shape.

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06-03-2012, 07:17 PM
  #119
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Kaberle hopes he will rebound. Gomez hoped the same thing last year.

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06-03-2012, 07:19 PM
  #120
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Kaberle hopes he will rebound. Gomez hoped the same thing last year.
So have thousands of athletes comming off bad years, what's your point?

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06-03-2012, 08:39 PM
  #121
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He can hope all he wants. Hoping isn't going to change nothing.
I don't understand why everyone is jumping on Kabs. The whole friggin team stunk last season. Blame it on injurys,Blame it on coaching, Whatever but we stunk last season and many players stunk worse than Kabs.When a player like Desharnais can step in on our top line and nearly lead our team in points that says a lot about our team.

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06-04-2012, 11:24 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Its kind of incredible that this guy used to be TO's no1 defensemen and now he's our new Marc-Andre Bergeron (lesser slapshot but better passing)

Probably goes to show how overrated their players get. He was always somehwat a defensive liability and it might explais in part why in past years toronto scored many goals but were beyond terrible on their own end.
they're still awful in their own end I saw the Bruins outscore them 35-10 (i think) over the 6 games lol.

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06-04-2012, 11:42 AM
  #123
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they're still awful in their own end I saw the Bruins outscore them 35-10 (i think) over the 6 games lol.
Mr. Overrated himself, Dion Phaneuf, replaced Kaberle and is helped by such mighty defensive stalwarts as Mike Komisarek and incredible future norris winner Schenn

At least they have Gardiner but I really doubt he's going to be nearly as good as they think he's going to be. They better draft a defensemen this year.. (or a center... or just about anything in fact!)

I'm sure they could really use Hamilton too! Or a great two way forward like Seguin instead of one trick pony Kessel.

That trade was really depressing for Habs fans you know? We'd rather have two mediocre/average rivals than a dominating one and another that is so terrible that we don't have to care about them.

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06-04-2012, 09:44 PM
  #124
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In other news...

Scott Gomez says he's commited to having a better year.

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06-05-2012, 09:53 AM
  #125
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I hope he does have some pride left in him.

I would send him a reel of himself losing puck battles in his end.

He will never become a punishing D, but at least he could use his feet and positioning to not give puck carriers easy access to the net or passing lanes.

---------------------------
Team composition - my 2 cents

- it is ok to have a great small forward, but not 4 of them
- it is ok to have a non-physical but offensive D, but not 4 of them

Choose the one you want, and trade/waive/demote the rest.

Build a TEAM

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