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The Official Offseason Thread (Part III) - Is it TC yet?!

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Old
06-04-2012, 12:16 PM
  #1
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The Official Offseason Thread (Part III) - Is it TC yet?!

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Old
06-04-2012, 12:18 PM
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They are fixing a torn miniscus. Seriously? That's why you pass.


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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Personally, the Carter partying stuff meant next-to-nothing for me.

I was concerned about the price in assets and, especially, his off the charts crazy contract length.
mmmm, the Kings had issues all season scoring, barely got into the playoffs and are now on the verge of a cup... riding the momentum of the Carter trade.

Sounds like passing on Carter was a great move considering we could have gotten out of the first two rounds in 4-10 games with another scoring threat. It would have change the landscape of the East drastically.

Contracts... people still cite contracts as an obstacle even after Carter was traded twice on that contract. Richards was traded, Phaneuf, Gomez, Thronton, Heatley twice. The prospect of winning a cup is never enough of an incentive around here. Lombardi showed the perfect mix of patience and opportunism. It would be a crime if we stayed on the sidelines too long, paralyzed by fear.

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06-04-2012, 12:24 PM
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Oh my God, can we just give the Kings the cup and start everything early? I'm itching.

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06-04-2012, 12:26 PM
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By the way, I would be perfectly happy if Rinne has his NHL13 cover, Quick has his cup,

Lundqvist can get the Vezina?



evvverybodddywinns

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06-04-2012, 12:28 PM
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Thread title should be changed to, "Has a new CBA been agreed upon yet"



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Old
06-04-2012, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
They are fixing a torn miniscus. Seriously? That's why you pass.




mmmm, the Kings had issues all season scoring, barely got into the playoffs and are now on the verge of a cup... riding the momentum of the Carter trade.

Sounds like passing on Carter was a great move considering we could have gotten out of the first two rounds in 4-10 games with another scoring threat. It would have change the landscape of the East drastically.

Contracts... people still cite contracts as an obstacle even after Carter was traded twice on that contract. Richards was traded, Phaneuf, Gomez, Thronton, Heatley twice. The prospect of winning a cup is never enough of an incentive around here. Lombardi showed the perfect mix of patience and opportunism. It would be a crime if we stayed on the sidelines too long, paralyzed by fear.
The price for Carter wound up being a top 4 defenseman and a 1st rounder. Let me know where the Rangers would've been able to meet that price considering Torts only felt comfortable with 3 and a half (Del Zotto was terrible near the end) defensemen in the playoffs anyway.

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06-04-2012, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
By the way, I would be perfectly happy if Rinne has his NHL13 cover, Quick has his cup,

Lundqvist can get the Vezina?



evvverybodddywinns
Wait, is he definitely on the cover? If any goalie should be on the cover its Hank. Rinne is overrated.

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06-04-2012, 12:40 PM
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Wait, is he definitely on the cover? If any goalie should be on the cover its Hank. Rinne is overrated.
Not yet but Hank is out. It's Rinne and Giroux. Rinne will probably win. Quick will probably win the cup. That's 2/3 of the Vezina noms... would hate to see Hank lose out on all three.

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06-04-2012, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
mmmm, the Kings had issues all season scoring, barely got into the playoffs and are now on the verge of a cup... riding the momentum of the Carter trade.

Sounds like passing on Carter was a great move considering we could have gotten out of the first two rounds in 4-10 games with another scoring threat. It would have change the landscape of the East drastically.
Come on man, this is some creative arguing.

Have you been watching? The Kings are where they are due to standout performances from Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, and Brown in that order. Carter has been at best invisible most nights. He has only tallied points in 6 of LA's 16 playoff games.

I am all for a key trade. But it has to be the right player, the kind who has the desire and the ability to perform in the playoffs. To stay with the Kings give me Mike Richards (who has been much more consistently involved offensively and hits and plays defense) over Carter every day of the week.

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06-04-2012, 12:48 PM
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How about Havlat? Prior to last season he had THREE straight with at least 70+ games. He had an underwhelming season to say the least but the price might be right for us in terms of the cap hit and the trade cost.

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06-04-2012, 12:50 PM
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Is Radulov actually a party animal or is it just something that came from the being home late incident this year?

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06-04-2012, 12:53 PM
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How about Havlat? Prior to last season he had THREE straight with at least 70+ games. He had an underwhelming season to say the least but the price might be right for us in terms of the cap hit and the trade cost.
Havlat is a shell of his former self and he was one of my favorite players for a long.

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06-04-2012, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The price for Carter wound up being a top 4 defenseman and a 1st rounder. Let me know where the Rangers would've been able to meet that price considering Torts only felt comfortable with 3 and a half (Del Zotto was terrible near the end) defensemen in the playoffs anyway.
Case in point. Sitting on the sidelines.

That's what LA gave up, not the set in stone demand. You're telling me a package of some mix of Erixon, Dubinsky, Anisimov, MacIlrath, Stepan, our first wouldn't be suitable. LA gave Johnson because they had enough defenseman to trade. Columbus just needed to save face and get a comparable return to their first and Voracek.

I just brought up Carter because there is always a reason for Ranger fans to shy away from the tough trade. Carter's talent commands a much higher price than what was paid, just like Radulov here. We have a chance at a bargain, at a position and skill we are severely lacking. But people worry about overblown curfew stories and the impact on 19 other solid, solid characters.

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06-04-2012, 12:59 PM
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Not yet but Hank is out. It's Rinne and Giroux. Rinne will probably win. Quick will probably win the cup. That's 2/3 of the Vezina noms... would hate to see Hank lose out on all three.
Hank should win the Vezina, but Quick is in line to win the Conn Smythe...the most important individual trophy of them all.

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06-04-2012, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Case in point. Sitting on the sidelines.

That's what LA gave up, not the set in stone demand. You're telling me a package of some mix of Erixon, Dubinsky, Anisimov, MacIlrath, Stepan, our first wouldn't be suitable. LA gave Johnson because they had enough defenseman to trade. Columbus just needed to save face and get a comparable return to their first and Voracek.

I just brought up Carter because there is always a reason for Ranger fans to shy away from the tough trade. Carter's talent commands a much higher price than what was paid, just like Radulov here. We have a chance at a bargain, at a position and skill we are severely lacking. But people worry about overblown curfew stories and the impact on 19 other solid, solid characters.
Im just bringing up the price - theres the whole other issue regarding how Carter has not been a consistent force in these playoffs outside of 2 games.

I dont know what parallels you're trying to draw, but if you think Jeff Carter jumpstarted the LA offense, I dont know what to tell you.

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06-04-2012, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Come on man, this is some creative arguing.

Have you been watching? The Kings are where they are due to standout performances from Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, and Brown in that order. Carter has been at best invisible most nights. He has only tallied points in 6 of LA's 16 playoff games.

I am all for a key trade. But it has to be the right player, the kind who has the desire and the ability to perform in the playoffs. To stay with the Kings give me Mike Richards (who has been much more consistently involved offensively and hits and plays defense) over Carter every day of the week.
The point is they made a trade to address a problem. Same problem as us.

And they had Richards and were still at the bottom of scoring. They had tremendous defense all season, but that still had the Kings in 13th place in the West. The whole team came out of the scoring funk at the same time, but it happened at the deadline. They lit a fire under Brown with trade talk, got Carter and the team woke up. Can you not connect the dots to the GM making a hard decision, seeing an opportunity, making a move and team getting back on track?

Carter wasn't the fix all, but Lombardi made a championship calibre move and we stood pat. NY and LA both needed help scoring. He got it, we stood pat. It's not a coincidence they are still playing.

I don't mind people advocating a pass on Carter, but it never ends. An impact move is necessary to get over the hump. They aren't winning the cup otherwise. No to Carter. No to Nash. Ok, fine, prices are high, contracts are high. Let's get a couple of 2nd tier scorers instead. No to Radulov, he's a me guy. 70 pt potential for a prospect or a first. Nope, not interested. The better move around here, let Dubinsky come out of his funk and wait for Anisimov to become this player he has never shown any signs of becoming. Why? Because draft day we called their names? Insanity.

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06-04-2012, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Case in point. Sitting on the sidelines.

That's what LA gave up, not the set in stone demand. You're telling me a package of some mix of Erixon, Dubinsky, Anisimov, MacIlrath, Stepan, our first wouldn't be suitable. LA gave Johnson because they had enough defenseman to trade. Columbus just needed to save face and get a comparable return to their first and Voracek.

I just brought up Carter because there is always a reason for Ranger fans to shy away from the tough trade. Carter's talent commands a much higher price than what was paid, just like Radulov here. We have a chance at a bargain, at a position and skill we are severely lacking. But people worry about overblown curfew stories and the impact on 19 other solid, solid characters.



I heard the NYR were very seriously pursuing Carter and just dropped it to pursue Nash.
Colombus wanted too much obviously but we had no plan B after that, because we moved
Away from the Carter deal.

I agree with your thinking here. Large part of this fanbase now thinks that we’re sitting
On a plethora of top six talent. Krieder looks to be the first top 6 player to come out of this
System since Kovalev.

People don’t want to trade AA or Stepan even with young proven players coming back the other way?
Hagelin is now a top line wing? This is just a by product of fear from the dark ages prior to the lockout.
You would think people would get over the fact that we still need to make trades that can help
This hockey club.

At the very least we were a top six scorer and a vet defenseman away from a SC appearance.
Sather failed at the deadline imo. Sure the asking price was high, but so was the reward!
Now we’re looking to move most likely the same picks, prospects, and players in to improve
Next season...

The past is done. This team needs to make moves to improve top line scoring, depth scoring and defense,
Especially now with Gaborik hurt

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06-04-2012, 01:08 PM
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Rick Nash has bust written all over him

Quote:
A burning question with Nash – what kind of center does he need? – only became more compelling this season. Nash, never blessed with a playmaker to his side, still has plenty of “junior” in his game, meaning he tries to do the work himself. A defensive-minded center who likes to shoot (imagining Ryan Kesler) would seem ideal. … Seems hard to believe, but the Blue Jackets center with whom Nash seemed to mesh best was Manny Malhotra. … Nash used to take over 10-12 games per season, which is the sign of a bona fide star at the NHL level. He looked unstoppable some nights. In recent seasons, though, the number of “takeover” games has slid well into single-digits. Understandable, perhaps, but it’s been noticeable
Quote:
Nash seems to creep farther away from the net on the power play, too, playing more on the half-wall than down low, where he used to score most of his goals. Then again, that might be why he was healthy enough to play 82 games last season.
http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...card-nash.html

How much for this player? Swap multiple assets. The $7.8M takes up a significant portion of cap space. Stuck with him for next 6 years. Priceless.

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06-04-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
The point is they made a trade to address a problem. Same problem as us.

And they had Richards and were still at the bottom of scoring. They had tremendous defense all season, but that still had the Kings in 13th place in the West. The whole team came out of the scoring funk at the same time, but it happened at the deadline. They lit a fire under Brown with trade talk, got Carter and the team woke up. Can you not connect the dots to the GM making a hard decision, seeing an opportunity, making a move and team getting back on track?

Carter wasn't the fix all, but Lombardi made a championship calibre move and we stood pat. NY and LA both needed help scoring. He got it, we stood pat. It's not a coincidence they are still playing.

I don't mind people advocating a pass on Carter, but it never ends. An impact move is necessary to get over the hump. They aren't winning the cup otherwise. No to Carter. No to Nash. Ok, fine, prices are high, contracts are high. Let's get a couple of 2nd tier scorers instead. No to Radulov, he's a me guy. 70 pt potential for a prospect or a first. Nope, not interested. The better move around here, let Dubinsky come out of his funk and wait for Anisimov to become this player he has never shown any signs of becoming. Why? Because draft day we called their names? Insanity.
Excellent post. I wish more people had this objective sense of observation.

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06-04-2012, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
The point is they made a trade to address a problem. Same problem as us.

And they had Richards and were still at the bottom of scoring. They had tremendous defense all season, but that still had the Kings in 13th place in the West. The whole team came out of the scoring funk at the same time, but it happened at the deadline. They lit a fire under Brown with trade talk, got Carter and the team woke up. Can you not connect the dots to the GM making a hard decision, seeing an opportunity, making a move and team getting back on track?

Carter wasn't the fix all, but Lombardi made a championship calibre move and we stood pat. NY and LA both needed help scoring. He got it, we stood pat. It's not a coincidence they are still playing.

I don't mind people advocating a pass on Carter, but it never ends. An impact move is necessary to get over the hump. They aren't winning the cup otherwise. No to Carter. No to Nash. Ok, fine, prices are high, contracts are high. Let's get a couple of 2nd tier scorers instead. No to Radulov, he's a me guy. 70 pt potential for a prospect or a first. Nope, not interested. The better move around here, let Dubinsky come out of his funk and wait for Anisimov to become this player he has never shown any signs of becoming. Why? Because draft day we called their names? Insanity.

correct.

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06-04-2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im just bringing up the price - theres the whole other issue regarding how Carter has not been a consistent force in these playoffs outside of 2 games.

I dont know what parallels you're trying to draw, but if you think Jeff Carter jumpstarted the LA offense, I dont know what to tell you.
Deadline moves aren't made to reshape your team, they are made to put you over the top. 2 games would have been enough for us to get to the final. Another goal or two in each of the first two rounds could have gotten us through in a few games less. Would have made a difference. And as I stated, the move itself did something to the team. They went on a roll at that point.

But you know, Carter's 5 goals and 10 points in 16 games wouldn't have done too much for us.

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06-04-2012, 01:18 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Deadline moves aren't made to reshape your team, they are made to put you over the top. 2 games would have been enough for us to get to the final. Another goal or two in each of the first two rounds could have gotten us through in a few games less. Would have made a difference. And as I stated, the move itself did something to the team. They went on a roll at that point.

But you know, Carter's 5 goals and 10 points in 16 games wouldn't have done too much for us.
Reality is if Gaborik was not playing hurt he likely scores a few extra goals and the Rangers are playing in LA 2nite.

Radulov gets points. he is worth a risk as the team needs goals..........who else are they going to get? Parise is not coming here, I want him to and hope he does but he likely wont cross the river as its a slap in the Devils face. Gomez and Holik are dinks, lol. Elias was not.

the UFA list blows guys. Whitney is good but he's old. Then what a hurt. older guy like Gagne , Jagr?

If it costs a 2nd and say Zukes rights, something small like that, you have to do it

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06-04-2012, 01:19 PM
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Rick Nash has bust written all over him



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A burning question with Nash – what kind of center does he need? – only became more compelling this season. Nash, never blessed with a playmaker to his side, still has plenty of “junior” in his game, meaning he tries to do the work himself. A defensive-minded center who likes to shoot (imagining Ryan Kesler) would seem ideal. … Seems hard to believe, but the Blue Jackets center with whom Nash seemed to mesh best was Manny Malhotra. … Nash used to take over 10-12 games per season, which is the sign of a bona fide star at the NHL level. He looked unstoppable some nights. In recent seasons, though, the number of “takeover” games has slid well into single-digits. Understandable, perhaps, but it’s been noticeable
Quote:
Nash seems to creep farther away from the net on the power play, too, playing more on the half-wall than down low, where he used to score most of his goals. Then again, that might be why he was healthy enough to play 82 games last season
.


http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...card-nash.html

How much for this player? Swap multiple assets. The $7.8M takes up a significant portion of cap space. Stuck with him for next 6 years. Priceless.
A defensive-minded center is ideal for Nash? Great, I guess we could look forward to him playing with Boyle or something.

I said about a week ago that Nash is no longer a premier power forward, and the fact that he is playing more on the half-wall instead of close to the net on the PP supports my belief. I didn't want him at the deadline and I still don't want him now. Too risky and not worth it for the cap hit and the assets and depth we would have to give up.

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06-04-2012, 01:23 PM
  #24
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And this isn't intended as a knock on Sather. We were ahead of schedule this season, I can appreciate the patience. Patience, I will point out, that Lombardi showed for 5+ seasons when he stood fast on his offers for multiple stars. It's a fine line. A lot of us will agree that we are crossing that line. Lundqvist is peaking, our defense is young but that means "soon to be expensive", right Nashville? Richards and Gaborik are on the wrong side of 30, not over the hill but the window is narrowing. We can wait for the prospects to help, but will the help come too late? Is Callahan going to break down sooner than later?

Add Radulov, move out Dubi or AA. Sit pat otherwise until you know what Kreider, Stepan, Hagelin, one of Dubi/AA bring you next year. That might be your two 30 goal scorers in that group. Then add a steady, steady D-man. Playoff type. Hall Gill mold, Sydor type move. That's enough going into October. Get over the top in February, not July 1. Parise is nice, but not our issue, we have him. Maybe not as good, but certainly not as expensive.

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06-04-2012, 01:26 PM
  #25
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As good as Parise is, Radulov fills this team's need much more. We have guys who play Parise's game, even if he does it better than them. We lack a guy who can create chances every time he has the puck, which is exactly what Radulov does. If he comes here and finds chemistry with a player or two, the sky is the limit.

Even Nash is not really the catalyst / creator that Radulov is. And at 7.8 mil and the assets Howson is asking for, there's going to be a ton of pressure on him to produce. Radulov fits the need like a glove, will cost significantly less, and will have less pressure than Nash. If the price really is as low as Brooks is speculationg, this is a no-brainer.

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