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Old
06-03-2012, 07:35 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
The investment on Read is minimal. He'd be the first player I move. JvR was a 2nd overall pick, Simmonds and Schenn were pieces for Richards, Voracek for Carter. Read was a FA shot in the dark out of college, and is by far the most movable piece for me personally.
Probably, but you would have to add more if Read is the piece moving for a player like Enstrom.

And this team shouldn't worry about what they have invested in a player in the past, but what value that player has to them for next year and years down the line.

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06-03-2012, 07:48 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
The investment on Read is minimal. He'd be the first player I move. JvR was a 2nd overall pick, Simmonds and Schenn were pieces for Richards, Voracek for Carter. Read was a FA shot in the dark out of college, and is by far the most movable piece for me personally.
Can't overlook the value of players of Read's ability on EL deals for a low Cap hit. You need those players to build a good team if yuor going to have a lot of high priced players.

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06-03-2012, 09:15 PM
  #28
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I like Enstrom but why pay a premium in the offseason when you can get him for cheaper at the deadline. The Jets won't be in the playoffs so you could get him as a rental a lot cheaper than with a full year left on his contract.

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06-03-2012, 10:32 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
He's a 23 year old power forward who weighs only 175 lbs. He already has a pretty good in front of the net presence and if the Flyers continue to groom him as they did last year AND he fills out the rest of his frame even more, he's going to be immovable from the front of the net.

He is already a very strong player and I'm excited to see what he can turn into. Especially with a player like Hartnell getting older.

Fact is, both Read and Simmonds are producing in secondary roles on cheap deals. Both play pivotal special team roles as well, and both would be difficult to replace for what they give and for how much they're getting in return.

I would rather do JVR or Voracek for someone like Enstrom (probably would prefer to move JVR more, though there are some adamantly against that).
I agree with what you said, he a great net presence, he great on the boards, and he brings toughness. With that being said he needs to add muscle. He can't make it though a season and playoffs without adding more weight. I feel thats a reason why he disappeared this playoffs.
Matt Read has a cheap cap hit, can play all 3 forward positions and can play the pk and pp. I would not want to trade him unless it's for a top top dman.

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06-04-2012, 04:19 AM
  #30
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Jets are interesting trade buddy for us..

I would add Read,MAB,Wellwood, Mezza and 1st pick for Ernström/Byfuglien,Kane/Ladd and Cormier.


Mezza and MAB for defender, Read and pick for forward and Wellwood for Cormier.

Or Ernström Byfuglien Cormier for Read Mezza and 2th pick..


Last edited by JayB: 06-04-2012 at 04:25 AM.
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Old
06-04-2012, 06:05 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
The investment on Read is minimal. He'd be the first player I move. JvR was a 2nd overall pick, Simmonds and Schenn were pieces for Richards, Voracek for Carter. Read was a FA shot in the dark out of college, and is by far the most movable piece for me personally.
Winning the Stanley cup is more about good scouting, handing out smart contracts and recurrent cap management than counting your investments.

If Read's incredibly cheap contract helps them to keep/sign one more Veteran forward for more depth this might make a difference, and it might as well allow for different options when reshaping the defense.

So the investment in Read was minimal but they are getting a good return for it in terms of production and flexibility. Why move a piece that is cheap, producing far above expectations, and still signed for 2 more seasons?

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06-04-2012, 07:51 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayB View Post
Jets are interesting trade buddy for us..

I would add Read,MAB,Wellwood, Mezza and 1st pick for Ernström/Byfuglien,Kane/Ladd and Cormier.


Mezza and MAB for defender, Read and pick for forward and Wellwood for Cormier.

Or Ernström Byfuglien Cormier for Read Mezza and 2th pick..
That's a silly trade from a Jets perspective. They end up significantly reducing their blue line and all they get back is 2 players two years away from being UFAs and a 2nd round draft pick? Terrible.

To the original proposal, if Enstrom were signed for 4+ years at a reasonable (5.5-6M per) cap hit, I'd do it. Enstrom would fit our defense perfectly imo. He's not a Pronger replacement, but rather Timmonen 2.0. A mobile defenseman with solid puck-moving skills is definitely an add for us. Would still allow us to target Weber next offseason.

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Old
06-04-2012, 07:57 AM
  #33
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Nope. I like Enstrom, but Read showed a lot of promise and I think Simmonds is a great grinder who will only get better. If the Jets went to deal Enstrom, I'd certainly try to work with them, and I'd probably give up one of those two in a package deal, but not both.

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Old
06-04-2012, 09:21 AM
  #34
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Wouldn't do it.

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Old
06-04-2012, 11:59 AM
  #35
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Simmonds + conditional pick

For

Enstrom

If Enstrom is re-signed for 2+ years the pick is a 2012 or 2013 1st rounder. If not the pick becomes a 2nd rounder in 2012 or 2013. Jets get to choose the year of the pick

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06-04-2012, 12:06 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Simmonds + conditional pick

For

Enstrom

If Enstrom is re-signed for 2+ years the pick is a 2012 or 2013 1st rounder. If not the pick becomes a 2nd rounder in 2012 or 2013. Jets get to choose the year of the pick
This is most ideal. I love Simmonds but Enstrom is a stud.

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Old
06-04-2012, 12:19 PM
  #37
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Bill Meltzer in today's blog post had some decent insight about going after Enstrom as a Kimmo replacement.

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Old
06-04-2012, 12:29 PM
  #38
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I'd hate to lose Simmonds, but I like this proposal (especially given the brain-dead wasteland that is the main board trade proposal section). I could see Read taking a big step back from what he showed this past season, and the 2nd pick from Winnipeg (39th overall) is nothing to sneeze at.

Enstrom's contract status, though, is a concern. Holmgren would have to make almost certain that he could re-sign Enstrom without breaking the bank.

This is a pretty decent defense line-up:
Coburn – Grossmann
Timonen - Enstrom
Meszaros - Gustafsson/Bourdon

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Old
06-04-2012, 12:32 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
I'd hate to lose Simmonds, but I like this proposal (especially given the brain-dead wasteland that is the main board trade proposal section). I could see Read taking a big step back from what he showed this past season, and the 2nd pick from Winnipeg (39th overall) is nothing to sneeze at.

Enstrom's contract status, though, is a concern. Holmgren would have to make almost certain that he could re-sign Enstrom without breaking the bank.

This is a pretty decent defense line-up:
Coburn – Grossmann
Timonen - Enstrom
Meszaros - Gustafsson/Bourdon
It's a pretty good lineup if Meszaros is on the 3rd pairing. Most teams would be thrilled with that.

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06-04-2012, 01:21 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
This is a pretty decent defense line-up:
Coburn – Grossmann
Timonen - Enstrom
Meszaros - Gustafsson/Bourdon
It would be but it seems this surname keeps getting plugged into the lineup come playoff time

Coburn- Injured
Injured/hurt - Enstrom
Injured - Gustafsson/Injured

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06-04-2012, 01:23 PM
  #41
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Agreed. I don't know why, but I don't think Read is going to have the performance that he had this season. It's a Simmonds for Enstrom swap in my eyes. Which is pretty darn good value.

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06-04-2012, 01:26 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Agreed. I don't know why, but I don't think Read is going to have the performance that he had this season. It's a Simmonds for Enstrom swap in my eyes. Which is pretty darn good value.
I agree with this. Trading Simmonds and Read is the definition of selling high. I like both players and both players are clearly contributors, but in a world where you give to get.... a signed Enstrom is going to cost you that. He's a solid number 2, great number 3 defenseman. If he were a UFA this year, he'd almost certainly be right behind Suter.

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06-04-2012, 01:30 PM
  #43
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He's more than a solid 2#, The guy is a top 25 defenseman in the league.

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06-04-2012, 01:53 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
He's more than a solid 2#, The guy is a top 25 defenseman in the league.
Which on a good defensive corps should put him as a number 2 (top pairing defenseman) on any team with playoff aspirations. At 20-25, what would you call him? A below-average number 1?

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06-05-2012, 12:54 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
The investment on Read is minimal. He'd be the first player I move. JvR was a 2nd overall pick, Simmonds and Schenn were pieces for Richards, Voracek for Carter. Read was a FA shot in the dark out of college, and is by far the most movable piece for me personally.
I think the Flyers would be better off evaluating players based on what they do in the league and not whether they were drafted or not. I think Read and his 900k AVG salary is a really important player to have on a team that spends to the cap.

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06-05-2012, 01:18 AM
  #46
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People keep failing to mention that Matt Read also filled the void of losing those short handed goals Richards would score, and Read scored important third period goals. Read also made lines click no matter where he was placed he fit well, these are aspects of the game you can't overlook or take lightly. Lastly hitting the opponent back into his own bench was priceless.

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06-05-2012, 08:05 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
I think the Flyers would be better off evaluating players based on what they do in the league and not whether they were drafted or not. I think Read and his 900k AVG salary is a really important player to have on a team that spends to the cap.
Read's value per salary is probably his greatest asset to the Flyers, and your point is a very good reason to not move him for just anyone. If it came down to moving him as part of a deal for a quality defenseman like Enstrom, though, I am thinking similarly to Broad Street Elite: sell high from a position (forwards) of strength.

The Flyers, though, would be better served with JvR as the principal in this deal, for pretty much the opposite of the value of retaining Read: a forward with a high cap hit. Plus, JvR would be closer in value to Enstrom than Simmonds.

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06-05-2012, 03:27 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Simmonds + conditional pick

For

Enstrom

If Enstrom is re-signed for 2+ years the pick is a 2012 or 2013 1st rounder. If not the pick becomes a 2nd rounder in 2012 or 2013. Jets get to choose the year of the pick
I think this might be the best Enstrom to Philly proposal yet. As a Jets fan, I'd push for Voracek over Simmonds, but either way I think the value is good both ways.

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06-05-2012, 03:52 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
The investment on Read is minimal. He'd be the first player I move. JvR was a 2nd overall pick, Simmonds and Schenn were pieces for Richards, Voracek for Carter. Read was a FA shot in the dark out of college, and is by far the most movable piece for me personally.
How much you have invested in something really has no bearing on what it's current value is. Read has a lot of value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
This is most ideal. I love Simmonds but Enstrom is a stud.
Agreed. We have a lot of forwards. Ideally I would want to do JVR for Enstrom to free up some space and get a known quantity back for a contract that has a ton of upside but is still a gamble. I'm just a risk averse guy, I guess.

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06-06-2012, 12:10 AM
  #50
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Don't you guys think that maybe the jets would be more into moving bogosian since they already have two top of the line Dmen in enstrom and byfuglien?

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